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Mountain Lion - are MacPros screwed?
- Thread starter Honbe
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Lion is rock solid for me also, and you know - if you have a trackpad the "reverse" scrolling makes sense.
Well, when I say rock solid - there is a minor issue with the MBA coming out of sleep and chugging for a bit until it wakes up properly, but thats a minor gripe.
Well, when I say rock solid - there is a minor issue with the MBA coming out of sleep and chugging for a bit until it wakes up properly, but thats a minor gripe.
In implementation. For me Lion isn't too buggy for me just bad design and implementation problems. Dragging and dropping is now a strange "hover - screwed up paused graphic- wait- hover - now we will copy" thing. Address book and iCal are design disasters and break Apple's own guidelines for user interface. Safari and that stupid iOS scroll thing eats 80% processor to bounce my page. WTF? Functionally Lion gained us absolutely nothing. What can you do on lion aside from changed eye candy? All Apple is doing is changing around behaviors and giving the same stuff new paint and we pay 30.00 for it. But they also break solid stuff. Mountain Lion seems to at least maybe gain some features but if they are horribly implemented and bog down a perfectly good Mac for no reason at all I will stick to 10.6 on my main desktop. From 10.1-10.6 Apple was giving us builds that added to and optimized performance. 10.7 changed that curve.
Ask Apple why they compromise stability by adding eye candy stuff, which in case of Lion did not really bring anything.
And how exactly did the compromise stability? The Cocoa framework is rock solid and highly optimized.
No offense but you and others are grasping at straws simply because you dislike good changes that don't even really affect anyone except someone who may want to use the new features.
With all due respect I am not grasping at anything. I have no problem with adding new features unless these new features compromise the most important think I expect from a system as a pro user - stability. In case they do, I will rather live without them but with stable and clean system.
What features? I think if you mention one or two I could concur. Why do we need Win7 blob animations with every click? Cocoa may be highly optimized (I doubt any more than 10.6) but I do not consider anything "good" changes if I have to turn them off and ignore them. I think that is the point there are "changes" but no "features". One of the very best features is QTkit background renders for thumbnails in Finder.app and when you try to delete from a server, you can't, you have to force quit Quicktime to regain ownership of the file and Quicktime isn't even running. Stooooopid. I can't delete my movies when I want. I literally have to go to my 10.6 box an delete the file. It works fine in 10.6. I have to use Path Finder to alleviate the nonsense in 10.7. I could go on with the amount of basic function stupidity Apple has shlocked over.
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This I can agree with. Lion is basically SL just with a slightly different paint job, you're right about that. The iCloud thing just doesn't go far enough to be functional, especially from a "Pro" prospective. I commend Apple for stepping into that space, but I think we're limited more by hardware and infrastructure to really implement it well. That isn't Apple's fault.
To that same end, its not really Apple's fault that Snow Leopard is so good that it is quite difficult to change it and still make it better. I don't want to sound too much like a fanboy, but its very difficult for me to think of things I wish SL did, or that it does poorly, outside some very specific configuration idiosyncrasies that come with all Unix/OSX as opposed to Linux (but that's what sometimes makes it fun).
I wonder what the reaction would be of those using OSX for work if Apple released an "OSX Pro" (to replace "Server" which is really worthless) that basically stripped out all these fluffy Twitter links and other needs iOS junk, but maintained iCloud functionality?
Actually, for people who don't use Twitter and such, there should be a way to not have those menus come for Mountain Lion (Pro version or not.)
There was an iOS game that I stopped playing when an upgrade made it ask for a twitter login every so often. (I don't miss the game there are plenty of others.) I don't feel a burning desire to tweet everything I do to the world.
Is it nice that the feature is integrated? For some people, yes, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the people who don't need it. In the way includes causing extra mouse movement or clicking to get past it.
Just want to add I have zero interest in iCloud/ iTunes Match all the "auto" Orwellian stuff. If I am going to bother to upgrade anything make it at least lossless. Too early in the game for actual cloud anything even though we are being beaten over the head to get onboard. All these automatic features are a recipe for user stupidity. That and the US does not have nearly the bandwidth needed. We are saturating the pipes everywhere (ISP's are bitching) and all the tech companies want to move our stuff over the thin wires even more? No thanks. That and the fact zero enterprises can use it because of legal reasons. Pro's are left out again. Thanks Grandma.
So I just got into all the new stuff in 10.8 and realized that without iCloud syncing you can handle EVERY new feature with a copy of Text Edit, Mail, and Growl. Wow.
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Oh sure, depending what in particular you're doing you can't send stuff over "The Cloud" (since that means your patient data, for example, goes and sits on an Apple server). And yes, you're right about the bandwidth issues as well. However, that doesn't mean there is no potential for useful functionality in a professional setting.
Heard of competitive corporate IP? I work for places in direct competition with Apple for all kinds of markets. They are not going to move anything up there without legal guarantees that if proliferated would tie up all Apples money for years. Apple will not guarantee anything you put up there. It gets compromised? Sorry should have read the agreement you signed. "We not responsible". We just build our own "cloud".
I could elaborate, but it seems you're a little too tied up in things that relate to large enterprise with a host of legality issues. Obviously you don't want research going into patents, sensitive financial documents, patient information, defense projects and on and on going through "The Cloud", but the world has a lot more "professional" work than these kinds of things. And its not as if you can't divide off sectors of data/work flow that could go to the cloud if that is useful, and those that can't. These kinds of issues are not new.
Features as in notification center, better iCloud integration, and everything else shown in the developer preview so far.
Also you lost me with the quicktime thing. I can delete files just fine from my server so I'm not sure what issue you are talking about.
Everyone is making a big stink about Mountain Lion, just like they did with Lion, just like they did with Snow Leopard, and just like they did with Leopard. Everyone gets in a huge uproar for no reason, claiming that "their pros and their workflow is now ruined" when in reality they are NOT pros or else they'd know how to adapt to a change in technology.
I have yet to see ONE good reason why Mountain Lion is bad for anyone. It doesn't remove any functionality so what is the big stink about?
I'm a "pro" user with a Mac Pro and I ****ing love Spaces and Expose. With as much **** as I have open, it makes organization a breeze, for me.
Nothing in the details of the new OS have been removing "Pro" features. The term "Pro" is thrown around like it's some kind of goddamn elitist requirement. "Pro's" want the same thing users want:
1. Rock solid performance
2. Ease of use
3. Ability to use devices/addons/software to get the job done
Tell me how those requirements don't overlap "Pro" and "Home" use, please. If you are a "Pro" user are are freaking out, you are either
1) Naive,
2) Saying you a pro user to get respect on the internets, or
3) Have seriously high expectations that no "mainstream" vendor can appease
Nothing in the details of the new OS have been removing "Pro" features. The term "Pro" is thrown around like it's some kind of goddamn elitist requirement. "Pro's" want the same thing users want:
1. Rock solid performance
2. Ease of use
3. Ability to use devices/addons/software to get the job done
Tell me how those requirements don't overlap "Pro" and "Home" use, please. If you are a "Pro" user are are freaking out, you are either
1) Naive,
2) Saying you a pro user to get respect on the internets, or
3) Have seriously high expectations that no "mainstream" vendor can appease
This!
As I stated above, I have yet to see a single valid reason how Mountain Lion hinders "pro" performance.
I know Mountain Lion will still let me work with:
Maya
ZBrush
Unity 3D
Houdini
XCode
Photoshop
After Effects
Corel Painter
(and hopefully after tax return, Realflow
)and the countless other programs I use daily.
Notification center and better iCloud integration isn't going to hinder any of that for me.
I'm not aware of any cases where Apple made a stability trade off for eye candy...
There were stability issues, but they had nothing to do with the eye candy, of which there was very little added...
Exactly. The only iCloud syncing I'm interested in would be the kind that auto syncs new data placed in a specific folder on one machine located on my network with the same specific folder located in exactly the same file tree on another machine on the same network. That way I could keep my laptop, desktop and mini current with certain important files without putting my stuff out on the Net.
As for the "help me out, I'm kinda stupid" stuff like Versions and the removal of Save As. . . I'll pass.
I generally agree with you here. I only use the word "Pro" to differentiate between what people wish to get out of a computer. Obviously most of us are professionals at something, it just depends on if you rely on OSX to make money doing some job. Then the issue is does OSX in some way hinder you doing your job. This is obviuously a bigger deal to people making money using their computer, versus someone just using it for serf the web, watch videos, hold all on your digital media and what not.
That isn't to say a computer's operating system isn't of importance to the casual user, its just a different level. The casual user probably has more use for something like ease of posting a pic to Facebook, tweeting about something they read on the WSJ and getting a picture off their iPhone. The professional user might want to do those things too, but has a different set of priorities.
This is not some elitist, contrived distinction, its a very real and tangible one. This is the reason "Pros" will buy Mac Pros and all the power and functionality they offer, and casual users will buy MBAs or even iPads. The same could be true of an OS. However, software is more flexible then hardware. So, the same OS can appeal to both spectrums, it just needs to be customizable, which OSX 10.7 is and I'm guessing 10.8 will be too. Which is why I don't understand all these "Pros are screwed" posts. Maybe somehow you fell between the cracks, that sucks. But I don't see a significant difference in 10.7's ability to serve "Pro" users as opposed to 10.6.
I completely forgot about Versions. "Locked file, has not been used...", "pay attention to me". Also very PITA to change the name of the file via the Finder while the file is open and have it respect the change. I end up cut and pasting to a new re-named file and delete the old. What? It is different and Apple is all about teaching us their "different" but it is not faster and it is not intuitive. So I am left wondering. The whole "we will safeguard all your data" movement is a red herring as usually the HD dies and you'll need the external backup anyway. Compound all that and the new OS actually slows you down as general known usability (Mac hallmarks since 1984) makes way for the new but they forgot to connect it somehow. So it is disjointed. Not buggy, not Anti-Pro, just tries to be so helpful it is a nag.
That's exactly what I'd like to see without something like dropbox where you're capped at some size limit. Just sync the files say once a day at a user determined time, if the files have been modified and call it done. That lets the server purge itself very frequently and would not offer permanent storage (though I suppose you could combo that in there if you want). The pay model could then be by the amount of data synced over some time period, instead of permanent storage capacity (or both if combo-ed).
My hope is that Mountain Lion is flawless from day one.
This is my 27th year of working daily with the various incarnations of Mac (and Windows and, for their brief lifespans, Atari and Amiga) OSes. Derbothaus' point hits the nail straight on, driving it deep. Apple needs to rein in the eye candy and place its heavy thumb on the side of the scales to balance it with the impeccable quality, functionality and design on first releases that helped to keep the company alive in it's darkest days. Current quality and satisfaction surveys show Apple still leading the pack, albeit with them all showing lower scores. Anecdotally, today, I finally got Lion 10.7.3 to install without killing my internet access via DHCP config after re-installing that update many, many times over the course of several days. Additionally, I had to take the time to learn more about network configuration, and how to manage the accompanying kext files, than I cared to devote, with project deadlines looming. And while learning new things is great, I'd prefer to do so only when I have free time to devote to it.
This thread and others hopeful will continue to serve to help readers who are experiencing issues or need advice with Apple related products and to simply provide the curious with a reading of our pulse and provide us with Apple related news. There is however another important function that this forum and others like it serve. They promote the development of the industrious participants who may be looking for opportunities, possibly market based, where the big players leave gaping holes because of their plans, stubbornness, greed, lack of interest or whatever.
It was wisely pointed out by an earlier poster in this thread that Microsoft appears to be headed down the same path as Apple with regard to mobility market focus and the question was put to me what would I then do if Microsoft succeeded. I do not now know what I would do then (but now that this scenario has been put to me, I at least have to ponder it). Nor do I know what other options would be presented then by some company whose existence we have yet to even recognize, assuming it even currently exists. Another option could even come from one or more of us, the now seemingly powerless, now non-market participants (except as purchasers), but who has taken in the pulse/issues of the relevant base and keeps aware of the them better than Apple or Microsoft has done. Old age has taught me that things change, change occurs faster as time goes on, and the successful originators of that change are the ones who have been listening most closely to the pulse/issues of the market they wish to capture, developing the capacity and the ability to deliver timely, reasonable priced, efficient, effective solutions. For every wise question one poses about what we would do if some seeming eventuality comes to pass or whether an unmet need will continue going unsatisfied, has a flip side, i.e., an opportunity waiting for someone who knows or can quickly figure out how to satisfy that need or provide a solution where none seemingly existed. Netkas does a great job filling the hole related to advancing video card compatibility and has recently begun allowing those who are truly thankful for his efforts to make voluntary contributions (and yes, I have). MacEFIRom freely released the Mac Pro Firmware Upgrade Utility. There are others who have freely contributed to our ability to advance our aging hardware even when Apple wouldn't. Thus if not Apple, I'd rather that it be forum participants who come to our rescue so that we're not screwed by whatever situation arises. I, for one, don't mind making contributions to those who perform this role well. They deserve our thanks and more.
In your opinion, if I could only afford one, (1) which is better at animation, (2) why is it better, (3) which runs most stably and (4) which runs well/better on Linux?
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