MP 7,1 MPX module - a proprietary dead end?

[deconstruct60]

Could the extra connector on the I/O card be carrying video passthrough (DisplayPort) for TB3?

It also needs to bubble up the GPIO connection that Thunderbolt also needs.

It must also be carrying audio codec data from the chipset.

Doesn't have to. There are USB to audio chips that could be sitting on a USB hum on the card along with the two USB A ports. Various Thunderbolt docs have audio connectors ( some TOSLINK and others ) on them. That is how it is implemented there.

Apple could but they could also skip the Intel audio set also. ( Skipping I think also removed potential interop issues with the T2's audio also. )

Maybe extra power for TB/ USB PD?

If they are keep with the spec but probably not to the USB A ports. Just hitting the TBv3 optional spec of 100W. But wouldn't be surprised if they cut that short.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Apple documentation states that you can only install I/O card with slot-8.

See the proprietary connections with this photo below, maybe it's just physical support, but for me seems a proprietary slot with electrical connections.

I never saw a good photo of the I/O card. Please take photos of the card when you can, no one took good photos of it yet.

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It's a proprietary slot with electrical connections, not just for support. You can see the golden pins here:
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OK , I took some pictures of the I/O Card and most importantly of the controller chips .

The entire slot is indeed electrical , with a proprietary portion at the far end .

There's also what looks like a locking lever flex cable for the audio port .

There's also a serial number QR Code on both sides .

There's an Intel JHL7540 Thunderbolt 3 Controller .

There are two Texas Instruments USB controller chips , of a new model : CD3218B12 .

 

[Ludacrisvp]

I wonder why they made the card so large ... it could have likely provided identical functionality at 1/3 the size or less, there aren't many components on that board.

 

[tommy chen]

I wonder why they made the card so large ... it could have likely provided identical functionality at 1/3 the size or less, there aren't many components on that board.

for the second connector and the pci holder

 

[tsialex]

OK , I took some pictures of the I/O Card and most importantly of the controller chips .

The entire slot is indeed electrical , with a proprietary portion at the far end .

There's also what looks like a locking lever flex cable for the audio port .

There's also a serial number QR Code on both sides .

There's a Intel® JHL7540 Thunderbolt™ 3 Controller .

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This card is very interesting. So, the proprietary part is the pass thru of the DP/Audio signals from the GPU and chipset, now we have a explanation for the passive switches on the main board.

Would be interesting to test this board with a riser to see what are recognised without the proprietary part.

Thx for the photos.

 

[Snow Tiger]

This card is very interesting. So, the proprietary part is the pass thru of the DP/Audio signals from the GPU and chipset, now we have a explanation for the passive switches on the main board.

Would be interesting to test this board with a riser to see what are recognised without the proprietary part.

Thx for the photos.

I'm most excited about those TI USB controller chips . It's a new model of chip never used before . If history is any indicator , we need to know the controller chip model in case someone decides to add a third party USB Card to the MP7,1 ( or any other Mac connected to a PCIe interface , like one in an external expansion chassis ) . That way , they'll be reassured USB driver support is available within macOS . Apple is the sole writer of those drivers in Mac Systems .

 

[Ludacrisvp]

for the second connector and the pci holder

It didn't need to be shaped square ...
this is what i mean, they could have done something that was more condensed, move some components closer together, just had an overall smaller PCB ... not a great preview based edited photo but a general idea of just moving things closer together without covering anything.

or the second edit which is the style of a typical low profile hight card where things are just relocated further down the board.

 

[goMac]

The Thunderbolt controller being present on the card is real interesting to me. Offers hope that this card could be swapped out for a Thunderbolt 4 or USB 4 card. I know that doesn't add any speed, but could bring the machine up to compliance with those specs.

Any sign on if the top TB ports are being fed from this card?

 

[Snow Tiger]

It didn't need to be shaped square ...
this is what i mean, they could have done something that was more condensed, move some components closer together, just had an overall smaller PCB ... not a great preview based edited photo but a general idea of just moving things closer together without covering anything.

or the second edit which is the style of a typical low profile hight card where things are just relocated further down the board.

All that extra fiberglass makes it easier to install and remove the card .

 

[Ludacrisvp]

All that extra fiberglass makes it easier to install and remove the card .

yeah i suppose that is true, and i suppose may have some thermals in mind by spreading out the surface area keeping chips further apart, its just mentally odd to me to see something from apple that isn't trying to shave every possible mm from the construction to reduce size.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Interesting that the TB controller chip is on the add on card in this System . This is probably unique in the computer industry . No wonder I couldn't find it on the logic board ...

I used to tell cMP users that the reason why they could never get TB is because their logic boards had no TB controller chip installed at the factory for a TB interface add on card to speak to .

And yes , I know the handshake trick with the Gigabyte card ... no one is real eager to do that in a production environment , though . They just want something that works right away and flawlessly .

 

[tsialex]

yeah i suppose that is true, and i suppose may have some thermals in mind by spreading out the surface area keeping chips further apart, its just mentally odd to me to see something from apple that isn't trying to shave every possible mm from the construction to reduce size.

The main thing is signal isolation, see how the GND plane is all over the board.

 

[Snow Tiger]

The main thing is signal isolation, see how the GND plane is all over the board.

The entire black area of the card is the ground plane . I just noticed that . For those readers interested in this , take a look at the board near where the gold teeth connectors are . Most of the board is matte black . But towards that edge it becomes more transparent . Its sort of an amber color band where the ground plane is absent .

 

[deconstruct60]

The Thunderbolt controller being present on the card is real interesting to me. Offers hope that this card could be swapped out for a Thunderbolt 4 or USB 4 card. I know that doesn't add any speed, but could bring the machine up to compliance with those specs.

As long as TBv4 takes the same feeds (and probably will ). Extending too much past that may turn into an issue. If get to the point where DP 2.0 is being pumped in from the GPU cards that probably wouldn't fly with the mainboard they have now.

Any sign on if the top TB ports are being fed from this card?

can't be. The TB controller can only drive two ports.

Besides. ...
There is another board in the top "plate" of the Mac Pro connected to the mainboard by a ribbon cable. Most of the teardown skipped it except to outline the ribbon connector to the That board also has the Wi-Fi / Bluetooth chip so it is a different set up. ( the Wi-Fi antennas are in the plastic like loop around the base of the stainless steel handles. ). So need a different board there.


The Rack version will need another board with another because there is no "top plate" and the space to stuff the board into along the front border is different.


Three different I/O boards doing something very similar may be one contributing reason why this board is "so big". They'd want something that is much easier to adapt to a different rather than customizing it too much to fit just one shape.

 

[deconstruct60]

Interesting that the TB controller chip is on the add on card in this System . This is probably unique in the computer industry . No wonder I couldn't find it on the logic board ...

One, this save some motherboard space by going vertical so it is somewhat more 3D volume space efficient.

Two, if a more standard x1-x4 card fits in that slot, the TB haters could put a Firewire , Audio , etc. card in that slot if ran out of the others. ( the 'extra' connector seems to be recessed deeper (and connector longer/taller than the standard x4 connector. That should in part allow some clearance if the board connector socket is adjusted appropriately. )

Third, there were some rumors about this Mac Pro getting TB 4 ( which is USB 4) .... and USB 4 probably was sliding so if on a replaceable card could sell some of those too later. The timing of the Mac Pro was grossly late and waiting on USB 4 probably would have been a bad idea.

I used to tell cMP users that the reason why they could never get TB is because their logic boards had no TB controller chip installed at the factory for a TB interface add on card to speak to .

They lacked both DisplayPort and GPIO feeds. The hacks that folks are doing now bouncing through Windows "happen to work' around the lack of GPIO feed if don't touch the TB network for the latest TB controllers which have a sanity mode they can lock into if not feed standard inputs.

It doesn't "have to be" soldered. But it also didn't have to Rube Goldberg loop back cables galore from the PC implementations either. It could be cleaning provisioned from the motherboard.

And yes , I know the handshake trick with the Gigabyte card ... no one is real eager to do that in a production environment , though . They just want something that works right away and flawlessly .

Some will but yes the Mac Pro's created before Thunderbolt came along would be tough to do seamlessly. (as wasn't fully invented yet. )
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The entire black area of the card is the ground plane . I just noticed that . For those readers interested in this , take a look at the board near where the gold teeth connectors are . Most of the board is matte black . But towards that edge it becomes more transparent . Its sort of an amber color band where the ground plane is absent .

Even with the re-driver for the DP 1.4 signals on the main motherboard there are is probably contributing factor here to control the losses until can get to the TB controller (which itself is distance constrain to be close to the TB PHYs ports. ) . Nominally the DP is coning in here from 7 slots ways (several of those double wide).

not sure if the audio contributes too. (being isolated from the rest of the potential 'noise' here. )
( pulling this audio from DP stream or USB. can't make out that chip here in the pictures. )

 

[Snow Tiger]

not sure if the audio contributes too. (being isolated from the rest of the potential 'noise' here. )
( pulling this audio from DP stream or USB. can't make out that chip here in the pictures. )

I couldn't trace the audio circuit very far , it's buried somewhere in the layers of fiberglass . It does have a flex cable attachment . And look on both sides of the PCB ( one is displayed upside down ) .

There was awful lighting for the shots . I was lucky to get the hi res pictures of the controller chips using both my iPhone and my DSLR's super macro .

 

[deconstruct60]

I couldn't trace the audio circuit very far , it's buried somewhere in the layers of fiberglass . It does have a flex cable attachment . And look on both sides of the PCB ( one is displayed upside down ) .

There was awful lighting for the shots . I was lucky to get the hi res pictures of the controller chips using both my iPhone and my DSLR's super macro .

It is better detailed info than what we had before so that is cool. [ It wasn't too surprising just how relatively superficial some of the usual teardown sites were on this product. In part, the Mac Pro even existence with slots so that was enough modularity to get a high enough repair score to just stop at the high level details. Also few really wanted to tear up the components on a $6K machine they paid far too much money for simply a tear down. So don't detach anything don't want to 'eat' $6K on. ]

 

[Snow Tiger]

It is better detailed info than what we had before so that is cool. [ It wasn't too surprising just how relatively superficial some of the usual teardown sites were on this product. In part, the Mac Pro even existence with slots so that was enough modularity to get a high enough repair score to just stop at the high level details. Also few really wanted to tear up the components on a $6K machine they paid far too much money for simply a tear down. So don't detach anything don't want to 'eat' $6K on. ]

What I can't understand is why iFixit rushed to give the MP7,1 a 9 out of 10 score for repairability ease when they didn't even bother to attempt a processor reinstallation or even upgrade . Didn't they know Apple's reputation ? Given my knowledge of the platform thus far , I'm willing to bet they accidentally damaged their Mac . I came close to damaging mine and I consider myself a pretty experienced tech . I literally had to halt my own tear down for two days to develop a safer method than just using fingers to remove the factory processor and install an upgrade . Maybe $6,000 was dearer to me , than them . Or maybe I take no small amount of pride in not damaging beautiful gear . My veteran bicycle mechanic is the same way , even worse . He has to hire an assistant to stress test his repairs and upgrades because he feels guilty with the very thought of even the possibly of harming a bike !

 

[tsialex]

What I can't understand is why iFixit rushed to give the MP7,1 a 9 out of 10 score for repairability ease when they didn't even bother to attempt a processor reinstallation or even upgrade . Didn't they know Apple's reputation ? Given my knowledge of the platform thus far , I'm willing to bet they accidentally damaged their Mac . I came close to damaging mine and I consider myself a pretty experienced tech . I literally had to halt my own tear down for two days to develop a safer method than just using fingers to remove the factory processor and install an upgrade . Maybe $6,000 was dearer to me , than them . Or maybe I take no small amount of pride in not damaging beautiful gear . My veteran bicycle mechanic is the same way , even worse . He has to hire an assistant to stress test his repairs and upgrades because he feels guilty with the very thought of even the possibly of harming a bike !

Think you as an end user and not as yourself, what you can repair with a 2019 Mac Pro? You can replace failed parts since its modular, but you can really repair anything yourself? Even with it being modular, how you can replace the NAND modules yourself since we can't pair the NAND modules?

What of the failed parts can be successfully repaired without a 4 digit lab? Where you will get the components to repair those parts?

Why a so high score?!? iFixit has an agenda and that score fits a purpose.

 

[deconstruct60]

What I can't understand is why iFixit rushed to give the MP7,1 a 9 out of 10 score for repairability ease when they didn't even bother to attempt a processor reinstallation or even upgrade

Chuckle. Like iFixit repairability score are anything close to an objective measurement. It is tied to how much stuff they can sell and how much things initially appear to points upon which they grumble, moan, and groan about most of the time. Do stuff we don't like lower score. Do stuff we do like and we make more money higher score. That is the bulk of the scoring factors.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Think you as an end user and not as yourself, what you can repair with a 2019 Mac Pro? You can replace failed parts since its modular, but you can really repair anything yourself? Even with it being modular, how you can replace the NAND modules yourself since we can't pair the NAND modules?

What of the failed parts can be successfully repaired without a 4 digit lab? Where you will get the components to repair those parts?

Why a so high score?!? iFixit has an agenda and that score fits a purpose.

It's to sell maybe all those Industry Standard Pro Tool Toolkits forever on sale for $60.00 ?

https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/Pro-Tech-Toolkit/IF145-307 .

The funny thing is , even though they're probably selling lots of tools and doodads and raking in the dough , I support their basic world view - right to repair , ability to repair , improve , upgrade and boldly go where no cheap Chinese tool distributer has gone before .

It's just I wish they wouldn't give false hope to anyone . You can't sell a $19.99 ( on sale and As Seen On TV , Act Now ! ) kit jammed full with all the experience and procedures needed to properly rebuild , repair and upgrade a MP7,1 . This sort of stuff happens at sites like MR where we patiently and exhaustively learn these procedures and about the necessary parts one small job at a time .

Like I say to the guys in my local community : Every time you tell someone something is easy and it's not , a kitten wakes up in China with a migraine . Think ... Of ... All ... Those ... Kittens ... Puh-lease !

The biggest thing I worry about is Apple one day will make my job so difficult the best level of achievement possible left for me is to turn into an Apple Store Genius ( AKA fancy parts swapper ) .

 

[Slash-2CPU]

What I can't understand is why iFixit rushed to give the MP7,1 a 9 out of 10 score for repairability ease when they didn't even bother to attempt a processor reinstallation or even upgrade . Didn't they know Apple's reputation ? Given my knowledge of the platform thus far , I'm willing to bet they accidentally damaged their Mac . I came close to damaging mine and I consider myself a pretty experienced tech . I literally had to halt my own tear down for two days to develop a safer method than just using fingers to remove the factory processor and install an upgrade . Maybe $6,000 was dearer to me , than them . Or maybe I take no small amount of pride in not damaging beautiful gear . My veteran bicycle mechanic is the same way , even worse . He has to hire an assistant to stress test his repairs and upgrades because he feels guilty with the very thought of even the possibly of harming a bike !

What method did you use for removing the CPU? Would you recommend it? This may be useful info for forum members.
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It's to sell maybe all those Industry Standard Pro Tool Toolkits forever on sale for $60.00 ?

https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/Pro-Tech-Toolkit/IF145-307 .

The funny thing is , even though they're probably selling lots of tools and doodads and raking in the dough , I support their basic world view - right to repair , ability to repair , improve , upgrade and boldly go where no cheap Chinese tool distributer has gone before .

It's just I wish they wouldn't give false hope to anyone . You can't sell a $19.99 ( on sale and As Seen On TV , Act Now ! ) kit jammed full with all the experience and procedures needed to properly rebuild , repair and upgrade a MP7,1 . This sort of stuff happens at sites like MR where we patiently and exhaustively learn these procedures and about the necessary parts one small job at a time .

Like I say to the guys in my local community : Every time you tell someone something is easy and it's not , a kitten wakes up in China with a migraine . Think ... Of ... All ... Those ... Kittens ... Puh-lease !

The biggest thing I worry about is Apple one day will make my job so difficult the best level of achievement possible left for me is to turn into an Apple Store Genius ( AKA fancy parts swapper ) .

Someone once gave me an iFixit tool kit for Christmas. I felt bad he wasted his money on the kit. Bits were really soft, brittle steel. They wore down quickly and had a tendency to strip screws due to their poor fit and finish.

Wiha 4mm drive is much better and about the same price.

 

[Snow Tiger]

What method did you use for removing the CPU? Would you recommend it? This may be useful info for forum members.
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Because its still too dangerous for use by laypeople and I'm really hoping someone will disclose the official MP7,1 service manual , which will tell us how Apple expects the AASPs to perform the operation . And most importantly , what tool , if any, is recommended . It'd be safer than my jury rigged solution .

If worse comes to worse , a full System tear down will permit a processor removal and reinstallation . Or maybe someone will get lucky and be able to remove just those two heatsink standoff plates , that prevent ( relatively ) safer finger removal and reinstallation of the processor .

 

[DoofenshmirtzEI]

IMO, CPU's are going to become non-replaceable parts eventually, even for systems like the Mac Pro. They generally don't ever "go bad", and increasing pin counts and the difficulty of seating them by hand without damaging them means they will go the way of memory chips, soldered in.

 

[Snow Tiger]

IMO, CPU's are going to become non-replaceable parts eventually, even for systems like the Mac Pro. They generally don't ever "go bad", and increasing pin counts and the difficulty of seating them by hand without damaging them means they will go the way of memory chips, soldered in.

I'm not too certain and I personally hope at least the techs always have upgrade options with the gear under their control . There are some Xeons that are BGA , usually the real big ones .

If everything in a System is super-glued , super-soldered and super-non-upgradable , our landfills will only get that more filled up in super duper double speed time .

It'll be like a WALL-E world made with mountains of obsolete servers and workstations 😧 .

At any rate , using PHMs installing LGA3647s is quite quick , standardized and safe , once you get used to it . A shame Apple did not use one with the MP7,1 .