Depends if they're talking about sustained draw or instantaneous peak draw.
Regardless, my point about turning knobs on the GPU to limit the peaks stands.
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MP 7,1 MPX module - a proprietary dead end?
- Thread starter Varmann
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Regardless, my point about turning knobs on the GPU to limit the peaks stands.
I just wonder: can I add a Vega64 card into the Mac Pro and connect it to the internal TB3 to drive the XDR display? Isn't the base MacPro RX580 working like this?
The GPU chips are all soldered to the module; just like normal GPU cards.
The MPX modules are not upgradable. The whole modules can be replaced, but the MBX base model isn't upgradable itself. The MPX modules fit inside of an MPX bay. You can remove an MPX module and put another different MPX module in that bay.
PCIe cards you can install in a Mac Pro 2019
In general most of the stuff you can do with a Mac Pro 2019 is covered here ( https://support.apple.com/mac/mac-pro ). A not so mysterious URL to all the support docs.
I just thought about something:
mpx only goes in a macpro... so as soon as people will “upgrade” a vega to a vega duo they will sell it used...
and no one else than a 7.1 user will buy it... apple WILL HAVE to follow GPU die evolution and come out with at least 1 mpx upgrade per gpu generation... and to those who can buy a rx5700 and call it a day, they would probably still do that.
so I am pretty sure we will see MPX vega 2 duo modules for sale on ebay once amd announces a new generation of gpu.
mpx only goes in a macpro... so as soon as people will “upgrade” a vega to a vega duo they will sell it used...
and no one else than a 7.1 user will buy it... apple WILL HAVE to follow GPU die evolution and come out with at least 1 mpx upgrade per gpu generation... and to those who can buy a rx5700 and call it a day, they would probably still do that.
so I am pretty sure we will see MPX vega 2 duo modules for sale on ebay once amd announces a new generation of gpu.
This is why I only purchased one Vega II Duo MPX. IF and WHEN any updated GPU card is released that far exceerds this one, I will keep the one I have and simply place the newer model in the second MPX slot. There is no way I would buy Vega II Duos and then turnaround and eBay a $5,200.00 or two $10,800.00 MPX modules at a discount. Wouldn't make financial sense. I'm not saying others won't... but my gut feeling is... they will be quite far and in-between on eBay.
Can you purchase another apple I/O card for the 2019 mac pro ? That would give you another 2 TB ports and 2 USB 3.1. Might be especially handy if you are going for the 580x graphics, or your own card.
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Also I notice the 5700 is now listed as available in the tech specs, though not in the configure ??? but i guess alot of people already noticed that .....
AMD Radeon Pro W5700X
40 compute units, 2,560 stream processors
16GB of GDDR6 memory with 448GB/s of memory bandwidth
Up to 9.4 teraflops single precision or 18.9 teraflops half precision
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports and one HDMI 2.0 port on card
Two DisplayPort connections routed to the system to support internal Thunderbolt 3 ports
Support for Display Stream Compression (DSC)
Support for up to six 4K displays, three 5K displays or three Pro Display XDRs
Full-height MPX Module fills an MPX bay and uses extra power and PCIe bandwidth
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Also I notice the 5700 is now listed as available in the tech specs, though not in the configure ??? but i guess alot of people already noticed that .....
AMD Radeon Pro W5700X
40 compute units, 2,560 stream processors
16GB of GDDR6 memory with 448GB/s of memory bandwidth
Up to 9.4 teraflops single precision or 18.9 teraflops half precision
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports and one HDMI 2.0 port on card
Two DisplayPort connections routed to the system to support internal Thunderbolt 3 ports
Support for Display Stream Compression (DSC)
Support for up to six 4K displays, three 5K displays or three Pro Display XDRs
Full-height MPX Module fills an MPX bay and uses extra power and PCIe bandwidth
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No, you can't use more than one I/O card, you have just one slot with the necessary connections, slot-8. I/O card is not a standard PCIe card, see the photo below.
No, you can't use more than one I/O card, you have just one slot with the necessary connections, slot-8. I/O card is not a standard PCIe card, see the photo below.
Is that red rectangle area of the I/O Card simply a proprietary card support or key feature ? Are there any electrical connections there ? If its simply fiberglass PCB it can be dremelled and the Card installed in another slot . If there is a proprietary electrical connection there , then it might be required to install the I/O Card in that exact slot . I can't remove mine to examine it as System is running another test . Slot #8 doesn't look like it has the normal PCIe lane circuitry there .
Apple documentation states that you can only install I/O card with slot-8.
See the proprietary connections with this photo below, maybe it's just physical support, but for me seems a proprietary slot with electrical connections.
I never saw a good photo of the I/O card. Please take photos of the card when you can, no one took good photos of it yet.
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It's a proprietary slot with electrical connections, not just for support. You can see the golden pins here:
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In theory, the ability to swap out the I/O card in the future to support TB4 or other protocols is a good thing and maybe something that can be purchased separately in the future as an upgrade. As of right now, it absolutely does seem like that port is "special" in some capacity.
Could the extra connector on the I/O card be carrying video passthrough (DisplayPort) for TB3?
It must also be carrying audio codec data from the chipset.
Maybe extra power for TB/ USB PD? USB C can negotiate up to 20 volts at 5 amps. Wonder what’s the power output spec for the I/O ports?
It must also be carrying audio codec data from the chipset.
Maybe extra power for TB/ USB PD? USB C can negotiate up to 20 volts at 5 amps. Wonder what’s the power output spec for the I/O ports?
Using a PCIe 8x slot riser you could test those theories. it would raise the card enough to allow you to connect it to a standard slot and see if it works without the proprietary stuff connected...
It’s a standard 4x slot with an extra “Apple I/O” slot behind it. Apple has loved doing this since the G4/ADP era.
The extra slot is definitely not PCIe-compliant. With the gap between the two slots, you’d have to notch the riser. The concern I’d have is the card edge not lining up correctly and shorting/burning the slot and motherboard.
From the rather poor pictures , it does seem there are electrical connections there . I'll take a proper shot of that card today and also hunt down the TB 3 muxes . My best guess is that part of the slot is the thunderbolt lanes . Anything with a lot of juice going through it would have larger traces . TB only supplies 10 W per port . Standard PCIe slot delivers up to 75 W , so the rest of the slot has thicker wires for that .
Is there a dedicated TB chip on the board somewhere ? The Xeon won't provide TB .
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The idea that Intel would allow new tech, even if it’s perfectly doable, on an old chipset is laughable. Want new features or a new CPU? Pony up for new motherboard and chipset. It’s basically hardware licensing.
Even if it's not for Intel tech, Apple offering more or different I/O on a separate upgrade card is theoretical option, should they even choose to listen to the needs of their users. The tower costs $6K+ and does not even have optical, S/PDIF, TOSLINK, or COAX audio outputs in any capacity. Apple doesn't even sell a dongle. Thanks for the headphone jack?
Again going back to previous generations, with the beige G3’s, Apple had three different “personality” cards for audio and video connectivity for selection at time of system purchase. Users could swap them after market, but only with what they could find used on eBay.
CPU’s are upgradable in every generation of Mac Pro, and Apple never sold those either. They don’t sell RAM, drives, or upgrade flash modules either. Not as parts or as an upgrade service.
Not at all likely they’ll change they way they operated for the last 20+ years and start selling upgrade parts now. They don’t want to sell you a $400 I/O card in 3 years when they can sell you a new $10k system in 5-7 years.
I had a funny thought .
I wonder if a third party company like Sonnet , Cal Digit or Newer Tech will manufacturer an upgrade card for the I/O Card slot #8 in the MP7,1 ?
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CPUs are upgradable in the MP7,1 , but only from the W Xeon subfamily . It's a shame the rest of the entire Catalog of Cascade Lake Xeon and even the Skylake Xeon are not compatible ( at any rate , not yet ) . Never say never at MR .
I wonder if a third party company like Sonnet , Cal Digit or Newer Tech will manufacturer an upgrade card for the I/O Card slot #8 in the MP7,1 ?
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CPUs are upgradable in the MP7,1 , but only from the W Xeon subfamily . It's a shame the rest of the entire Catalog of Cascade Lake Xeon and even the Skylake Xeon are not compatible ( at any rate , not yet ) . Never say never at MR .
If Apple provides details on that extra part of the slot, probably will see some third party alternative port configurations, perhaps they could make it so it could be dual slot for even more ports and instead of consuming the open slot above the PCB they could use the 'back / bottom' of the PCB to use the slot below it as this would be a just for the 7,1 part, no reason it can't be custom like that. Think adding 4x USB-A 3.1 ports below the current I/O panel or something like that.
Indeed, perhaps that CPU support behavior will change if / when we see BootROM updates for the 7,1.
There have been two , maybe three boot ROM versions of the MP7,1 . I tried two different ROM versions and got my Gold Cascade Lake Xeon to work with both until I performed a NVRAM reset . Then she went dead until I reinstalled the factory silicon .
Apple doesn't have to sell an Apple tabled dongle directly. That isn't necessary in any way. That's is immaterial if there already is a robust 3rd party market that is already selling either such as dongle ( USB 3 (or better) and Thunderbolt ) or as PCI-e add-in cards. There are more than a couple players there.
The issue would be not so much hardware as the drivers. Apple probably has "too short" coverage there, but are also extremely unlikely to do that driver for 3rd parties. ( Apple probably could do with some seeded development funds here if that stalls for too long. )
The system being priced $ 6+ K so it should have a kitchen sink of ports most of the users don't want, isn't a good viewpoint. ( "it is priced to high for what is there but if they just threw in this alphabet soup of stuff maybe, maybe it would have the value I'd want to buy". That is just long winded this system isn't really targeted at you. Audio ports isn't going to 'save' it ).
There are more slots than were on previous Mac Pro. Folks who need speciality audio socket 52 can buy a card with that specific socket. And if already own a card or "dongle" with that simply just attach it. That is the market they are targeting.
The base price here is way too high to be aimed at pedestrian TOSLINK equipment set ups. HDMI is the common modern way of getting digital audio off of a system ( and all Mac Pro 2019 configurations have that). Apple has been dropping the older legacy audio out options for years. It really shouldn't be a major surprise that the 2019 Mac Pro moved on also.
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At this point in time upgrade to what?
A "new and improved " USB 4 / TB 4 discrete controller doesn't exist yet. (even from Intel).
If there was a new "present in all Macs" next gen TB v4+ controller that showed up then Apple's drivers would be key interface. So wouldn't Apple be likely to jump into that space ? Is there really going to be room for multiple players here. Some folks think Apple is going to sell 100's of thousands of these Mac Pro. I find that highly dubious. If it is in the low-mid 10's of thousands then how many are actually going to change the I/O card in the next 1-3 years. Probably not that many. And if Apple steps in how many are left?
3+ years down the road and the installed base goes to multiple year run rates and Apple is still not gong to move then maybe. If Apple can grow the base of Mac Pro 2019 (and up) systems with this slot at some point it will hit critical mass to enable multiple parties ... but short term is somewhat dubious.
Regular PCI-e slot card can also go into Thunderbolt PCI-e card enclosures. The base usable system there is the vast majority of the current Mac product base ( which is 10's of millions a year. A three order of magnitude increase in total addressable market (TAM)). That TAM is viable for multiple players.
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