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Ritsuka

Cancelled
Sep 3, 2006
1,464
969
The playlists header (title, subtitle, description, number of songs) now scrolls with the playlist content, probably new in 10.15.4.

Do you still have issues with Genius? I just tried to update it and got now issue. I have no slow down when switching from Music to another app or back.
 

ignaciobarrena

macrumors 6502
Dec 25, 2016
274
220
Hi there,

I want to do a clean install of Catalina since I've been having some issues, and I would like to keep my music library intact. What is the safest method? I have an iTunes folder that looks like this (with all my music): and a Music folder that was created after updating to Catalina: Also, I have iCloud Music Library turned on so I have my music synced between my apple devices. What would be the safest method to do it?

Thanks a lot!
 

ErikGrim

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2003
6,527
5,147
Brisbane, Australia
Hi there,

I want to do a clean install of Catalina since I've been having some issues, and I would like to keep my music library intact. What is the safest method? I have an iTunes folder that looks like this (with all my music): and a Music folder that was created after updating to Catalina: Also, I have iCloud Music Library turned on so I have my music synced between my apple devices. What would be the safest method to do it?

Thanks a lot!
You can delete the Music folder if you want to rebuild fresh from iTunes.
 

Traverse

macrumors 604
Mar 11, 2013
7,711
4,491
Here
I really want to update to Catalina (for Reminders, but mostly just because I like tech), but iTunes was the honestly the most important application I use on my iMac. I don't have a huge library (5000 songs), but I have carefully curated it over the years with 25+ smart playlists with custom artwork, metadata, ratings, etc.

I assumed that by 10.15.4 they would have the Music app ready for general use, but it looks like they're still having issues. Any feedback on the latest version?
 

Traverse

macrumors 604
Mar 11, 2013
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Here
The wikipost at the start of the thread is always up to date with the latest version beta or otherwise.

TL;DR: I'm still using iTunes on Catalina.

I've been utilizing "jump to new" too often on this thread. I like that you keep the old bugs/featuers and strike them as the software is updated. Really appreciate the effort you've put into this.

?
 

canyelles

macrumors member
Nov 8, 2011
71
103
Any feedback on the latest version?

No change that I can see.

The worst problem for me (although there are others) is that when you move from iTunes to Music, playlist information is lost. I hold my playlists (over 1500) in song format with specific widths/fields. All that is lost in Music. The longer this goes on the less likely they are to fix it because they will assume everyone has transitioned to Music.

Looks like I am stuck on iTunes/Mojave
 
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Sowelu

macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2008
815
1,014
New York City
So, a funny (or should I say, surprising) thing happened... I got a new 16" MacBook Pro, so I had no choice but to start using the Music app. I took a chance and decided to just dive in to see what would happen. So, I did the following:

I opened the Music app in Catalina on my new MacBook Pro, turned off or unchecked Sync Library, Automatic Downloads, Always check for available downloads, Automatically update artwork, then disabled 'Apple Music' (because I do not use it, nor do I store any of my music in iCloud).

I closed the Music app in Catalina, copied my current iTunes folder (as is from the 'Music' folder in Mojave) to the 'Music' folder in Catalina.

I opened the Music app again in Catalina, while holding down the option key, then selected the 'iTunes Library.itl', which is my original and legacy iTunes library still sitting in the iTunes folder, which is now in the Music folder on my new MacBook Pro running Catalina.

The Music app launched, and much to my surprise (based on all the horror stories I've read), all my playlists were intact (hundreds of them), in the correct song order, and there were no broken song links, and all the artwork (that I took hours and hours to apply myself) within each playlist started to pop up. It took about 20-30 minutes total for all playlists to populate the proper artwork (and it didn't come from Apple's servers). No running for days, no high CPU usage, even though the Music app sometimes shows 'updating album artwork', when really, it's not.

Now, mind you, I have a large (500GB) music library, and I only work within the structured playlists that I create (which would cover about half of the files in my library, so far). So, any music files that fall outside of my playlists are uncategorized and have either been downloaded, ripped from CDs or purchased through iTunes. Until these songs are used in future playlists, the song/album artwork and song naming schemes haven't been updated yet (if needed), so I am very much play-list only based and focused. Be it long sequenced playlists that shift genres that define several eras throughout each year, or artist anthologies and so on, all the chosen music has been curated in playlists with updated and complete artwork to my liking, and all of this retained in the Music app in Catalina. I wanted to mention this, as my use-case may be different from others.

My starred and 'loved' items also retained, as well as each song's play-count. What didn't retain is the column order while in 'song view' mode, but that's easily fixable (while still a major PITA).

So while I am very happy that all my playlists, artwork, play-counts, star ratings and so on copied over exactly as is, I now see why the Music app is hated by most. It makes iTunes feel like the best music app that ever existed. The functionality that they took away in the Music app is pointless and actually makes the app worse than iTunes ever was. The lack of logic and flow is staggering. The horrible new search function that populates albums instead of songs/files, and the fact that you can no longer search within a playlist is totally backwards and makes no sense. Our music libraries are databases, and they should function as such. Apple's obsession with album views (their way or no way) is getting out of hand.

The fact that you can no longer hit the back and forward buttons endlessly to navigate to all previous screens regardless where you landed (library, store, playlists) is mind boggling (and that single back button looks ridiculous sitting there, alone, floating). And so on and so on. They even removed the time played so far, and the time remaining while a song is playing, you have to actually MOUSE OVER that area to see how long a song has left. WTF?! Why?

Whoever thought that REMOVING useful features and functionality from iTunes (to make it appear as if they've re-written a lighter and faster Music app) should not be allowed to develop at Apple. When are they going to learn that LESS options/buttons/choices is actually more difficult for the average user? By all means don't make it look like a hot mess with a million options a la Microsoft, but there is a happy medium, and the last version of iTunes is a good example of that.

So, while the Music app will get me by, now that all of my playlists are copied over and intact, if given the chance, I'd go back to iTunes in a heartbeat. Now that Apple is pushing Apple Music (streaming), I doubt that they are going to put all the features from iTunes back into the Music app any time soon. They are obsessed with bland interfaces and no options and limited features, because somehow, that's 'easier' to your average user.

The bottom line is, if it were possible to downgrade to Mojave on the 16" MacBook Pro, I would, simply to use iTunes again. The new Music app makes navigating and creating playlists unnecessarily difficult and cumbersome. I wish they would've just stripped the TV and PodCast functionality out of iTunes, and carried it over to Catalina as is.

So, do we think the Music app will ever be as functional and usable as iTunes, or, is this it?
 
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Ritsuka

Cancelled
Sep 3, 2006
1,464
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You can use the local search field to search inside the view you are currently into. cmd-shift-f or View -> Show search field.
 
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mikzn

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2013
3,005
2,299
North Vancouver
The new Music app makes navigating and creating playlists unnecessarily difficult and cumbersome. I wish they would've just stripped the TV and PodCast functionality out of iTunes, and carried it over to Catalina as is.

So, do we think the Music app will ever be as functional and usable as iTunes, or, is this it?

I had much the same experience 6 months ago - and migrated my music library at around beta 3 of Catalina and all my play lists and song counts and ratings imported fine back in early August 2019 (using the option key to select and import the old "iTunes Library.itl file) - no issues with the exception of "Missing Artwork"

My main issues back then were the lack of 1) column browser (shocked ? - deal breaker for me), 2) poor artwork migration and missing artwork, 3) poor search capability of the music on my drive and in the music library.

Luckily (at least for me and some other die hard column browser users) Apple restored the missing column view in November 2019 ? and this solved my biggest issue with moving to Catalina - and made the "Music App" usable finally :rolleyes:

My feeling is that Apple has trying (for years) to make a consolidated "Music App" that includes the online streaming services such as "monthly streaming" "iTunes match", "Music Store" and make a single app for streaming and accessing "purchased Music" and streamed music. - Personally I have begun to keep my "owned and purchased" music files separate from "Apple Music Online" by using Spotify for streaming and investigating new music and then purchasing whole albums (if I like) on the iTunes store or on my Amazon Account

IMHO - I think Apple should have created 2 apps 1) Music? a streaming app service to compete with Spotify, Amazon Music, etc and separately, 2) iTunes for managing music files with out connecting to the internet and for organizing music files offline - somehting iTunes is / was great at and even Windows users use as one of the best apps for tagging, editing and organizing large music libraries.

Searching - as Ritsuka pointed out the "Show Filter Field" helps but goes away (does not persist) and requires another mouse trip to the view options menu to re-access it everytime you change a screen or music selection, album view etc. - of course you can memorize the short cut keys "Shift + CMD +F" - but why not have an option to have it remain in view?

I like the fact that TV, and Syncing has been removed - but not sure about Podcasts and have been trying the "Overcast App" as an alternative (iOS only) - For Books - well I left apple for Amazon a long time ago in this area - kindle app is hard to beat.

My bottom line would be similar to your post - even though Music does most of what iTunes used to do (and 95% of what I want) searching a large library and navigating around (back and forth) through files and screens has made the experience frustrating and less user friendly - but until some company creates a better alternative app it is still the best bet for managing music on Catalina - IMHO
 
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ErikGrim

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Original poster
Jun 20, 2003
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Brisbane, Australia
I like the fact that TV, and Syncing has been removed - but not sure about Podcasts and have been trying the "Overcast App" as an alternative - For Books - well I left apple for Amazon a long time ago in this area - kindle app is hard to beat.
Overcast has a Mac app now?
 

nortonandreev

macrumors 68030
Jan 11, 2016
2,895
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Europe
I can't believe that AirPods gestures doesn't work in Music and also that Siri can't do anything within the Music app (like changing songs)...
 

ErikGrim

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2003
6,527
5,147
Brisbane, Australia
Wiki updated for 1.0.4.89 with Real Time Lyrics and Full Screen Mode, one squashed delay when switching to app, one squashed bug creating playlists from albums in AM (which created a new delay instead). Still many issues.
 
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eji

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2004
403
60
INW
Here's one that I didn't see: On a wired (Ethernet) connection with WiFi off, try selecting an AirPlay output in Music. The primary network connection will immediately drop out and take some time to reestablish itself. Any network traffic (e-mail, file transfers, etc.) will be interrupted.

This is a holdover from iTunes on Mojave and a regression from the proper behavior on High Sierra. An Apple tech was able to replicate the bug when I spent an entire Saturday afternoon on the phone with him, but nothing's been fixed.
 

pup

macrumors 6502a
Dec 31, 2009
515
500
Here's one that I didn't see: On a wired (Ethernet) connection with WiFi off, try selecting an AirPlay output in Music. The primary network connection will immediately drop out and take some time to reestablish itself. Any network traffic (e-mail, file transfers, etc.) will be interrupted.

This is a holdover from iTunes on Mojave and a regression from the proper behavior on High Sierra. An Apple tech was able to replicate the bug when I spent an entire Saturday afternoon on the phone with him, but nothing's been fixed.
Did you mean to say that the bug is from High Sierra but not Mojave? This is how I'm setup on Mojave and I don't see the bug. I get a brief delay when connecting to some speakers but I've found speaker switching to be much quicker and AirPlay generally more reliable this way than with WiFi on.
 

eji

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2004
403
60
INW
Did you mean to say that the bug is from High Sierra but not Mojave?

No, the bug is not present in High Sierra, but it was present in Mojave and remains in Catalina. I've reinstalled the OS from scratch and have been able to replicate the bug with a fresh OS install on a Mac mini 2012. As I mentioned, the Apple tech was able to replicate it too. IIRC, he performed it on a recent iMac running Mojave. What hardware are you using?

Might upload a video of it to YouTube or something, as it's a quirky little bug. It might not be noticeable if you don't have any ongoing network operations at the time.
 

Resuna

macrumors newbie
Feb 21, 2020
3
0
Houston
I have lost all my music metadata including ratings and playlists.

* When I started Music it showed me all my tracks, but many of them were listed as off in the cloud. That seemed to be because they were in Music/iTunes/iTunes Music instead of Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music.

* Also, none of my playlists or smart playlists were there.

* Also, none of my tracks had any ratings.

I tried using an applescript from the wiki to import my playlists but it didn't seem to have any code to handle smart playlists, so I aborted it, and tried to delete all the Music related data from my computer, including ~/Music/*, ~/Library/*/com.apple.Music, but when I restart Music it resurrected the old ~/Music/Music/Music Library.musiclibrary from somewhere. I have tried to find this backed up copy, but it's nowhere.

Edit: I even removed all my local Time Machine snapshots (sudo tmutil deletelocalsnapshots /) and unplugged my backup disk in case it was pulling it from there, but no luck.

Please help, I have 20 years of accumulated metadata about my music I would dearly hate to lose. What do I have to delete to completely cut Music's head off and force it to start again?
 
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pup

macrumors 6502a
Dec 31, 2009
515
500
No, the bug is not present in High Sierra, but it was present in Mojave and remains in Catalina. I've reinstalled the OS from scratch and have been able to replicate the bug with a fresh OS install on a Mac mini 2012. As I mentioned, the Apple tech was able to replicate it too. IIRC, he performed it on a recent iMac running Mojave. What hardware are you using?

Might upload a video of it to YouTube or something, as it's a quirky little bug. It might not be noticeable if you don't have any ongoing network operations at the time.
I'm on a base model iMac Pro, streaming to 4 devices. Two of them, an AppleTV and a HomePod, connect immediately when I click on them, less than a second. Then there's an airport express that takes about 3 seconds to connect, and a Sonos move that takes about 6 seconds. All together, including the time it takes to click the boxes, about 10 seconds to connect all four.

I use a single linksys ethernet switch connected to a 3-node Velop WiFi
 

eji

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2004
403
60
INW
I'm on a base model iMac Pro, streaming to 4 devices. [...]
Okay, a couple of clarifying questions:
  • WiFi on the iMac Pro is completely off? I don't see the same network dropouts when WiFi is enabled alongside Ethernet. It's only when the computer is connected exclusively via Ethernet.
  • Are you running Dropbox? The reason I ask is because the Dropbox icon serves as a rough indicator for the dropped network connection. The Dropbox menubar icon will go gray, then return to white.
The network interruption isn't really indicated by a huge delay. Selecting my Sonos One, Apple TV (3rd gen) or Denon X3500H as an AirPlay destination appears to take place fairly quickly, although it's not nearly as smooth as on the 2009 iMac running High Sierra.

Here's a quick screen capture video that shows what happens. You can see the pause in network traffic in the Little Snitch network monitor menubar item as well as the disconnection in the Dropbox app.

This issue occurred with a D-Link 24-port Gigabit switch/Asus GT-AC5300 router as well as a D-Link 28-port 10Gb switch/Netgear AX router, so the cause doesn't seem to be networking hardware.
 

pup

macrumors 6502a
Dec 31, 2009
515
500
Here's a quick screen capture video that shows what happens. You can see the pause in network traffic in the Little Snitch network monitor menubar item as well as the disconnection in the Dropbox app.
Interesting - here's a video of me doing the same.

I'm curious what's causing the different experience.

fwiw, I was having a terrible time with airplay until I switched my wifi router over to bridge mode, and still have some issues with my Sonos Move and my HomePod if I turn the iMac's WiFi on. Even with WiFi off, iTunes still doesn't always get commands sent to the HomePod, though it seems pretty robust with everything else.
 
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eji

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2004
403
60
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I'm curious what's causing the different experience.
Believe me, I would love to know too. This is driving me nuts. Your experience is exactly what I had on High Sierra. Upgrading to Mojave coincided with this new behavior, and as I mentioned, it persisted even after fully reinstalling Mojave from scratch and later upgrading to Catalina.

In fact, I upgraded to Catalina by installing a completely new SSD, making it as close to setting up a new machine as possible. And I didn't restore a single thing from backups or Time Machine; it was all manual file transfer.

Digging through Console logs hasn't helped much.
 
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eji

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2004
403
60
INW
To rule out the distinct possibility that I might be going crazy, I found this person and this person were suffering from the same issue.

EDIT: It was in fact the same person, and the solution was in one of the bug reports. You need to go under the "Network" pane of System Preferences, select "Ethernet," click the "Advanced..." button, go to the "Hardware" tab, change the "Confugure" drop-down to "Manually," uncheck "AVB/EAV Mode," return the "Confugure" drop-down back to "Automatically," click "OK," then finally click "Apply".

Super obvious, right? So there *is* a fix, but the behavior with that option checked is still a bug.

EDIT #2: The "fix" doesn't work. It prevents the Ethernet disconnects, but no audio comes from the AirPlay device. Oh, and as I expanded my search to other languages, it looks like this person has encountered the bug too.
 
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