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New 24" Penryn iMac owners....screen bleed fixed???
- Thread starter dantay
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Let me preface this comment by saying that when I first began reading these forums, I was skeptical that the problem was as bad as it was made out to be. I have a lot of faith in Apple, their computers, their quality control, and their design.
Until a week and half ago, I was the happy owner of a white 24-inch, 2.16 Ghz, 250 GB, 7600 GT, 4 GB RAM. I sold the computer just in time, predicting an update.
The screen was beautiful. It had the hum at low brightness, but it didn't bother me. With the exception of the screen hum, the computer was dead silent. Logging what I estimate to be over 3,000 hours on the screen, I never noticed any significant backlight bleed, absolutely no mura effect, no colour casting, no visible gradient. I used the screen often to watch television shows and movies in a darkened room at night.
Since I sold it, I've been reading a lot of forum posts, researching the purchase of its replacement. After reading post after post about screen issues, I had become increasingly weary.
My father purchased a refurb 2.4 Alu iMac to replace his aging eMac, on my recommendation. It arrived on monday and I agreed to set it up for him. At first, I was impressed with how vibrant the screen was. However, when I inspected it for gradient, bleed and yellow cast I was dissapointed (there is a mild gradient, moderate bleed in both bottom corners and the top left corner, and a moderate warm cast through the centre of the display). For my father's purposes, all three problems are present, but at acceptable levels. He most likely wouldn't even have noticed, had I not pointed them out. However, I decided to watch a few TV shows to test out the screen, and I decided that were it my iMac, I would be sending it back.
Within the last week, I also did some work on a white 20" 2.16 Ghz. The contrast between it and the new 24" Alu iMac was night and day. The 20", while also not as bright, had no visible bleed, gradient, and PERFECT color.
To all the posters who indicate that these problems are "to be expected", "exaggerated", "limitations of the technology", etc., I must respecfully disagree. I'd like to reiterate that the problems described in this post are real.
Now, I must agree that for the "average" user, maybe they aren't a big deal. I agree, these are great machines, and I'll probably even end up buying one and putting up with the problems.
If I had never owned that white 24-inch 2.16 iMac, I probably wouldn't be complaining.
Most Windows switchers who aren't graphics professionals probably won't notice either, because they display they're migrating from is likely much inferior to the one in the iMac.
To clarify, I still believe that the display is far superior to the vast majority of LCD monitors on the market.
However, if you are upgrading from a white iMac, or an Apple Cinema Display, I totally agree with and understand the perspective of the dissatisfied posters.
It's a shame, because the display *should* be a good one. I'd love to see a *properly functioning* H-IPS display in an iMac would look like. Sorry for the novel.
I don't think people are expecting a "professional studio monitor" per se, but I think that most people would reasonably expect the same quality, or better than the previous white iteration of the iMac.
Did it hurt?
Sorry... just a pet peeve. Everyone uses the word 'literally' too much when what they meant was "figuratively".
Did it hurt?
Sorry... just a pet peeve. Everyone uses the word 'literally' too much when what they meant was "figuratively".
i'm figuratively shocked... still... but i'm taking my iMac back tonight (or tomorrow) to get a new one... i'll be literally ecstatic if the new one has a good screen, and figuratively red-faced (like this guy
) if the new iMac has the same problem or worse.by the way, how is your 24" 2.8GHz iMac? any screen gradients or light bleeds?
It's an interesting situation because the same thing happened when the alum iMacs first came out last summer/fall, and then the complaints dropped off dramatically this winter and spring, and people starting reporting a lot of good screens. I bought mine in October, and feel that I got a very good one (not withstanding those who would look at a 20% brightness variation in the corners as being completely terrible and unacceptable). Now that Apple has another update out again, there are all sorts of issues being reported with gradients, backlight bleeding etc. I wonder if Apple has some kind of issue with re-tooling for a new product release initially? If so, it would indeed be a bit of a disturbing trend.
i'm figuratively shocked... still... but i'm taking my iMac back tonight (or tomorrow) to get a new one... i'll be literally ecstatic if the new one has a good screen, and figuratively red-faced (like this guy
by the way, how is your 24" 2.8GHz iMac? any screen gradients or light bleeds?
Yeah, mine has the bleeds... I still have a few weeks left of the 90 day support... but I am not sure I want to try and do anything with it. I can't see it at all during normal use, and the only time I notice it is when I pull up a letterbox movie to watch. Since I don't do that very often, I wasn't sure it was a big enough deal to worry about since the rest of the machine works 100% perfectly.
What do you think? Should I make a stink (figuratively) about it? Maybe I could make a literal stink about it in the Apple Store... that would turn some heads for sure.
i think people just got use to their bad screens... i've had mine for just under a week and i'm beginning to accept it... although i'm really hoping they do a recall, which i know they wont...
i don't think i'll return mine... it's too much of a hasstle, especially since i'm convinced i'll receive a new one that is either just as bad or worse... oh but i do plan on milking my apple care sometime over the next 3 years about this issue.
the Adobe (1998) profile seems to cover quite a bit of the warm yellow band in the middle of the screen, although the colder colors from Adobe (1998) require a bit of getting use to...
apple should be ashamed of themselves.
Can you give me a little more info on how you plan to do this? I would also like to 'milk it' for all it's worth...
I wish I still had my white 2.16 so that I could compare them side by side. I really don't remember it having any visible bleed beyond the very edge of the display (i.e. no corner spotlights). I'm going to order a 3.06 in early June, so I guess I'll have to wait until then to see another comparable unit.
I have a 3 year old 20" Apple Cinema Display that I compared my 24" iMac too. I measured both the various tools described here, and both have about a 20% brightness backlight non-uniformity. Beyond that, the 24" iMac is noticeable brighter, crisper, more colorful, all around more of that "pop" right off the screen making my HD video and photos look gorgeous. I think it looks a lot better than the ACD side by side.
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Not directed at anyone in particular:
I think a lot of folks are getting the backlighting gradient mixed up with the backlight bleeding, and calling the bleeding a gradient. They are different things. One shows up on a black screen in a dark room as light spots or flashlights around the edge (bleeding). The other shows up on a solid, light background (like grey or white), and is a brightness gradient from uneven backlighting (gradient). I believe that by reading the context of some posts, the backlight issue has been referred to as a "gradient", which is a little confusing.
Simple solution. Watch letterboxed movies at the menu option of "Fit To Screen" rather than Full Screen" They're the same except that on "Full Screen", the black letterboxing is given a false extension (by the computer) to the top and bottom of the screen. That extra black is not on the actual DVD image and is simply added by the computer.
The size of the letterboxed image in "Fit To Screen" is the same, but instead of extending the black letterboxing to the top of the screen (and revealing the hated "bleed" everyone is moaning about), the top and bottom of the desktop is visible instead. Choose a nice gray that reveals no bleed (or even be inventive and design your own desktop design for the purpose) and suddenly you are watching movies with NO solid black areas in the corners and therefore no annoying bleeds visible.
Much easier solution than taking 16 computers back to Apple, I'd say. The image quality of the iMac screen is outstanding, better than you'll find on any other desktop. Try enjoying it instead of complaining about things that have easy workarounds.
The size of the letterboxed image in "Fit To Screen" is the same, but instead of extending the black letterboxing to the top of the screen (and revealing the hated "bleed" everyone is moaning about), the top and bottom of the desktop is visible instead. Choose a nice gray that reveals no bleed (or even be inventive and design your own desktop design for the purpose) and suddenly you are watching movies with NO solid black areas in the corners and therefore no annoying bleeds visible.
Much easier solution than taking 16 computers back to Apple, I'd say. The image quality of the iMac screen is outstanding, better than you'll find on any other desktop. Try enjoying it instead of complaining about things that have easy workarounds.
in a few months, after they've figured out what is wrong with their design and addressed this issue, i'm sending it in for repairs... if the issue is never addressed, and they don't fix this problem then by the time the new iMacs are released with better screens (assuming they'll have better screens) i'll have to demand to be upgraded with the better screen.
something tells me i won't have to go that far though... not that it's really going far to expect a solid screen from A) Apple, B) a $2000+ computer, that doesn't look like it's broken... i have faith they'll address the issue and afterwards when i send it in for repairs they'll be able to fix it.
Attachments
I don't think that explains the massive slow down in complaints around here from last fall until last week monday, nor the tremendous number of posts of people who got good screen - there were 2 threads that each got to over 10 pages.
Not gonna happen, as they didn't do anything about the apparent case design flaw in the 2nd revision and this problem has existed since the Alu iMac debuted Aug 2007.
Apologies if it's already been discussed, but does anyone have any good theories as to what could be happening inside the machine, physically or electrically, to cause the screen to have a distinct gradient in some cases (like my first iMac), a minor gradient in others (like the replacement I have now) or no gradient at all (for the fortunate ones)?
Dust and smudges
If the smudge or dust are the only issue, you can clean off the dust by removing the glass and cleaning it off. If the smudge is dirt on the inside you can also get that off as well. There are several YouTube videos demonstrating removal. Its held on with magnets and is easier then carting the Mac back to the store.
If the smudge or dust are the only issue, you can clean off the dust by removing the glass and cleaning it off. If the smudge is dirt on the inside you can also get that off as well. There are several YouTube videos demonstrating removal. Its held on with magnets and is easier then carting the Mac back to the store.
haha, yeah did you see the one where the guy uses a toilet plunger on the screen? how suitable for these new displays!
Plunger tech
I like computers that can be disassembled with common household tools
I like computers that can be disassembled with common household tools
haha, yeah did you see the one where the guy uses a toilet plunger on the screen? how suitable for these new displays!
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/433452/ Although backlight bleeding, who knows if it's also causing the gradient problem?
Apple has not changed parts on the displays in the aluminum iMacs. They are the same exact panels as the August, 2007 update.
That said, I'm with you. As I mentioned before my third LCD panel replacement is a winner. There is no visible gradient nor discoloration (yellowing) and very minimal backlight bleed in the bottom left and bottom right only. It was minimized even further with a full calibration with SuperCal.
I am more than pleased with my display now.
What's design flaw? Well, Apple does change parts from time to time. In the past, I ordered 2 MDD G4s but the heatsinks are entirely different.
I don't think the glass panel has anything at all to do with it. Have you actually removed yours to confirm this?
Pressure on a panel has nothing to do with gradients anyway.
IMHO the gradient issue is attributable to uneven backlighting in the panel itself although I've heard other theories that it could have something to do with Apple's LCD inverter and DC to AC voltage conversion.
As for Darkroom's plan to wait for Apple to issue some sort of product line-wide recall or "fix" for this, the issue has been reported since the mid-2007 aluminum iMacs were released last August. Nothing has changed in either the case or the LCD panel that is being used.
Either you guys are indeed looking at the world through gradiented eyes or the vast majority of iMac owners are blind to the "problem". I had a minor gradient on 2 panels in my iMac before the one I'm currently using that has none I can detect. If this was an established issue that everyone was affected by (as in everyone detected and found unacceptable - I am NOT arguing the existence of gradients) then you would have seen mass coverage on the subject like there was with the iMac freezing problems that finally got fixed with a firmware update in November of last year.
If the iMac is not up to your exacting standards of quality then get an ACD and a Mac Pro or go build a Windows machine. There is no obligation to own an iMac that I know of.
I wouldn't hold your breath for that Apple recall.
It's partly because the previous iMacs had professional quality S-IPS panels:
- The 20" white iMac used exactly the same panel as the 20" Cinema Display.
- The 24" white iMac used exactly the same panel as the $1100 NEC LCD2490WUXi
And partly because Apple's CEO repeatedly and unreservedly claimed that the
ALU iMacs were: "even better", "upgraded", and "MORE PROFESSIONAL"
than the white iMacs -- i.e., the ones with professional-grade S-IPS displays:
Liar, liar, pants on fire!
Maybe "everyone was expecting" something other than outright lies from SJ.
LK