New EU Law Could Force Apple to Allow Other App Stores, Sideloading, and iMessage Interoperability

[segfaultdotorg]

First they came for the Lightning connector, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Lightning connector.
Then they came for the App Store, and I did not speak out, because I was not an App Store.
Then they came for iMessage, and I did not speak out, because I was not an iMessage.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[usagora]

The job of the government is to regulate... without them, everything would be up to the companies. This is absolutely within the purview of the government . . .

Sure, to regulate some things, but not everything. This isn't one of those things. For example, if Apple were spewing toxic pollution into the environment, endangering wildlife and people, then that would obviously be something within the government's purview to regulate. Apple restricting how apps are delivered to the iPhone for security reasons (or really whatever reason they want) should not be the government's business. If developers don't like that, then they can develop for another platform.

. . . and it absolutely shouldn't be Apple's choice because we already know they wouldn't comply because they want to monopolize the App Store rather than allow proper competition to it.

Again, it's not the government's place to tell companies how their users can install software on their phones, therefore "comply" shouldn't even be in the equation because there shouldn't be any command to comply with.

 

[rjohnstone]

We have similar problems when in comes to credit cards. Their are only two major players: Visa and Mastercard. American Express is not accepted by many businesses because of the high processing fees. So two companies have an incredible power. That's why heavy regulation is needed.

Everything you just said is completely wrong.
I've been working in this industry for over 20 years. No I'm not some low level CSR.

Amex processing fees are in line with Visa/MC. Have been for over a decade.
You'd be hard pressed to find a company that didn't accept and an Amex card, short of merchant exclusivity agreements (Costco, Sam's Club, etc)
Debit card processing fees are actually higher.
Third party processors (Stripe, Square, etc.) are the one who usually set differentiated fees for card transactions.

 

[AppleTO]

As long as the someone who sideloads first agrees that any harm suffered by the user or to the phone, is the responsibility of the user. With no Apple responsibility or liability.

In other words, sideloading is at your own risk.

Thing is, as soon as that toggle exists, it can be exploited. That affect all users, including ones who have no intention of enabling it.

 

[ScottishDuck]

If all the app developers are suddenly going to leave the App Store because you can sideload, why hasn’t that happened on android?

There’s what, one major app that’s not on the play store?

 

[PrecisionGem]

Apple should stop all this BS from the EU and tell them NO, and let them know they will pull out of the EU.

I did it with my small business over the GDPR. I stopped all sales into the EU, I'm not playing their games.

If we had a president with any sense, he would demand that all imported cars from the EU run on regular gas, not 92 or higher. He could claim it's for the EU's favorite subject.... CLIMATE CHANGE.

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

This is kind of a philosophical debate at this point

The people arguing against sideloading on phones usually justify it by saying phones are not computers and therefore should not be expected to be as open as computers
But nowadays a lot of people only use a smartphone as their only computing device, and really - WHY should a phone not be as open as a computer?

Because it’s historically being so? That’s not an excuse

Because phones are mission critical and should never ever malfunction? Maybe they CAN be, but for most people they’re not and let’s be honest here: your iPhone is more likely to malfunction due to an iOS bug than it would be from a sideloaded app, which still runs in a sandbox and is still terminated by the system the second it starts demanding too many resources or hasn’t been used for a while.

Others will argue it’s within Apple’s right to limit their platform in any way I see fit, but we’re not talking about what’s legal right now, we’re talking about what’s right.

Count me on camp sideloading honestly, the downsides are just too small 🤷‍♂️

 

[DD88]

I said a few months ago that Apple would collapse and go into liquidation at some point and with this news it seems I was right all along

 

[sorgo †]

First they came for the Lightning connector, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Lightning connector.
Then they came for the App Store, and I did not speak out, because I was not an App Store.
Then they came for iMessage, and I did not speak out, because I was not an iMessage.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

You win this thread, congrats 👏😩

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

If all the app developers are suddenly going to leave the App Store because you can sideload, why hasn’t that happened on android?

There’s what, one major app that’s not on the play store?

Forni- oh wait, they went straight to the Play Store when everyone refused to deal with their launcher…

 

[monstermash]

The EU: working hard every day to make life miserable for those who rely upon technology.

 

[hans1972]

Bring it on. It's not like you're being forced to sideload.

It only benefits developers and advanced users who like to configure their device.

The problem is that you might be forced to use other application stores with widely different UI and policies to get the apps you want.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

I will concede that having an duolopy for tech is not the best, but market forces worldwide have spoken loud and clear: it is either Google or Apple.

Letting the market forces rule is quite an American idea. That's why many things are much more expensive in the US than in the EU. Market forces created a monopoly or oligopoly against the consumer.

I can't understand why Americans do not applaud the idea that companies are forced to give them more choices. For example the choice to install an app that is not approved by Apple.

How can people with the "If you do not like it, just go somewhere else" attitude ever have a successful relationship?

 

[Ethosik]

The “what if” argument is tired.

History repeats itself. Look at Epic (who wants a store on iOS) and how they handle the Epic Games Store on PC. Exclusives exclusives exclusives.

 

[hans1972]

Good news!!! Apple advertises the Mac as secure yet has open app stores, side loading AKA installing whatever you want. What makes the iphone so different? NOBODY is forcing you to do these on your phone if you don’t want to.

The iPhone is more secure than the Mac, especially for people who don't know what they're doing.

Also, people install way more apps than they do applications on the Mac and the value of the data on an iPhone is way more valuable than on a Mac.

That's why more security is needed.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

So they suck at geography, no wonder Apple Maps also sucks. 🤣

No doubt! But, their poor geography has fooled folks into believing that what Apple reports as “Europe” is equal to “The EU”. The actual revenue out of EU countries could be 10% or lower.

 

[belvdr]

How can people with the "If you do not like it, just go somewhere else" attitude ever have a successful relationship?

How can you equate the two? I consider device selection trivial; not so with a relationship.

 

[contacos]

You’re missing the point.

Obviously Apple would not do this voluntarily, because it doesn’t benefit them.

My problem with Apple being forced to do it is that what else could they be forced to do?

It is all nice when governments force Apple to do something that we want, but it sets a dangerous precedent. What if the next thing the EU wants is to put a back door into Apple’s OS.

Don’t worry. Germany is already drafting a bill for that [messaging apps] to fight child pornography, hate speech and other „illegal“ content.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The iPhone is more secure than the Mac, especially for people who don't know what they're doing.

Also, people install way more apps than they do applications on the Mac and the value of the data on an iPhone is way more valuable than on a Mac.

That's why more security is needed.

Yah, anyone that thinks the Mac is as secure as iOS is just trying to make a specious point

 

[MLVC]

My God the drama in this topic. Hilarious really.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

Amex processing fees are in line with Visa/MC. Have been for over a decade.
You'd be hard pressed to find a company that didn't accept and an Amex card, short of merchant exclusivity agreements

Maybe that is different in the US, but in Europe Mastercard and Visa take a 1.5% fee, while for Amex it is more like 3%.

Look at this website of Rhinocamera for example. If you buy the lens with credit card, you only pay the 679 Euros and no additional fees. However, if you choose American Express, they charge 15 Euro extra because of the high fees.

Rhinocamera.de

www.rhinocamera.de

 

[belvdr]

The iPhone is more secure than the Mac, especially for people who don't know what they're doing.

Also, people install way more apps than they do applications on the Mac and the value of the data on an iPhone is way more valuable than on a Mac.

That's why more security is needed.

Meh, the folks that want to sideload are not your average consumer. Most of the Android folks I know that can sideload don't even know it is possible. They rarely check for updates.

 

[GeneralChang]

Fair enough. I just don't think that's a significant number of developers. IIRC, only around 1.5% of developers paid the 30%. Between ads, subscriptions, and the small developer program, I think any opportunity for developers to save money on alternative app stores for anyone other than the biggest developers is limited. The decrease in exposure would probably be more significant than the small revenue bump per sale.

All in all, this is an extremely poorly thought out law, that won't have any benefit for all but a small percentage of consumers. The sideloading/app store provisions will allow billion dollar business like Epic to steal some control and revenue from Apple. The messaging provisions will be destructive by hampering e2e encryption and allowing a proliferation of spam since users will no longer be verified by the major services.

The legislation also appears to mandate side-loading outside of any app store, which would allow even small developers to recover additional revenue. Chances are you might see a good number of smaller apps available in the App Store also offer a marginally cheaper version for direct download from the developers website. Not unlike what we have on MacOS currently. I doubt exposure will be a major concern for most developers, given how little exposure they actual get in the App Store as it is.

Worth noting, though that the vast majority of developers and consumers probably wouldn't bother unless forced to by, say, Adobe.

And giant corporations that have apps on the app store already control their customer's experiences pretty much unilaterally. Yes they'll be able to pull some revenue away from Apple, but you're asking me to be concerned for a trillion-dollar company because a multi-billion dollar company dragged, at most, a couple million dollars in revenue away from them. Gotta say, that's a big ask.

 

[monstermash]

Letting the market forces rule is quite an American idea. That's why many things are much more expensive in the US than in the EU. Market forces created a monopoly or oligopoly against the consumer.

I can't understand why Americans do not applaud the idea that companies are forced to give them more choices. For example the choice to install an app that is not approved by Apple.

How can people with the "If you do not like it, just go somewhere else" attitude ever have a successful relationship?

If I want a bunch of obnoxious chooses, I'd get an Android phone.

 

[usagora]

I'm going to send EU this Dongle Bingo and see what they will do with it.

I actually rather like dongles. It's fun to connect things together. In fact, sometimes I wish my dongles had their own dongles 😂