New Mac clone maker, Quo Computer

[*LTD*]

SJ is the reason that Apple is pissing on the people who kept them going. SJ is the reason the pro line of computers are over priced.

And making a ton of money while doing it. The average consumer with $$ to spend on a high-value proposition is what keeps Apple going, lean times or good times. Hell, even consumers outside of high-income brackets can get in on the Apple goodness.

Apple no longer relies on any "core" set of consumers. The Average User is now more empowered than ever by Apple. Apple gear is for everyone. it doesn't even take a great deal of money to buy into the Apple ecosystem these days.

Your head is still in the 90s. This is 2010. ENTIRELY different ballgame. Apple is far too diverse (and far too competent in so many areas) to be hurt by losing a "core" segment of the market. Notwithstanding Mac Pros, they sold so many "overpriced" computers during the recession that they were the only ones making any profit in the industry, while the netbook also-rans had to pump out more and more volume to post half-decent numbers. In a recession, Apple actually sold *more* Macs. And now they're killing off netbooks with their *other* computer: the iPad.

There is no such thing as a "people who kept them going" core market for Apple. Hasn't been one for years, nor does Apple need one. Nor does Apple owe anything to Mac-heads who may or may not have been loyal years and years ago - at least not any more than they owe to any other consumer.

SJ is the reason Apple is successful today, whatever their pricing, but the culture at Apple is also imbued with his vision. When SJ leaves or God forbid, passes on, then we'll see whose fervent crystal-ball gazing will come to pass. Wouldn't it be such a b*tch for the trolls around here if he sticks around for another, say 15 years and continues to take Apple to new heights? Hell, under his watch Apple not only revolutionized the mobile space, but turned it into one of the most (if not the single most) successful aspects of not only their business, but the most successful mobile strategy industry-wide. But the trolls can keep wishing for *their* version of Apple's future to come to pass. It just gets a bit harder for them to believe their own tripe each quarter.

 

[leekohler]

And making a ton of money while doing it. The average consumer with $$ to spend on a high-value proposition is what keeps Apple going, lean times or good times. Hell, even consumers outside of high-income brackets can get in on the Apple goodness.

Apple no longer relies on any "core" set of consumers. The Average User is now more empowered than ever by Apple. Apple gear is for everyone. it doesn't even take a great deal of money to buy into the Apple ecosystem these days.

Your head is still in the 90s. This is 2010. ENTIRELY different ballgame. Apple is far too diverse (and far too competent in so many areas) to be hurt by losing a "core" segment of the market. Notwithstanding Mac Pros, they sold so many "overpriced" computers during the recession that they were the only ones making any profit in the industry, while the netbook also-rans had to pump out more and more volume to post half-decent numbers. In a recession, Apple actually sold *more* Macs. And now they're killing off netbooks with their *other* computer: the iPad.

There is no such thing as a "people who kept them going" core market for Apple. Hasn't been one for years, nor does Apple need one. Nor does Apple owe anything to Mac-heads who may or may not have been loyal years and years ago - at least not any more than they owe to any other consumer.

SJ is the reason Apple is successful today, whatever their pricing, but the culture at Apple is also imbued with his vision. When SJ leaves or God forbid, passes on, then we'll see whose fervent crystal-ball gazing will come to pass. Wouldn't it be such a b*tch for the trolls around here if he sticks around for another, say 15 years and continues to take Apple to new heights? Hell, under his watch Apple not only revolutionized the mobile space, but turned it into one of the most (if not the single most) successful aspects of not only their business, but the most successful mobile strategy industry-wide. But the trolls can keep wishing for *their* version of Apple's future to come to pass. It just gets a bit harder for them to believe their own tripe each quarter.

No one here is insulting anyone or trolling but you. Hey, I would love to stay with Apple, but if they continue to ignore what I need, I'll be forced to go elsewhere or build my own. I'm not going to throw good money at something that does not suit my needs, just because it's an Apple product. That would be stupid. I am far from alone.

 

[*LTD*]

No one here is insulting anyone or trolling but you. Hey, I would love to stay with Apple, but if they continue to ignore what I need, I'll be forced to go elsewhere or build my own. I'm not going to throw good money at something that does not suit my needs, just because it's an Apple product. That would be stupid. I am far from alone.

Ok. Apple doesn't suit your particular needs now. What's your point?

 

[leekohler]

Ok. Apple doesn't suit your particular needs now. What's your point?

My point is that I and many other pros who have used Apple products since the beginning of their existence are feeling that they no longer wish to be involved with us. That's a shame, as the computers they made were so good. My company (a very large multinational advertising agency) is now considering leaving Apple. We use their servers, desktops and laptops. That seems to be quite a large, solid market to ignore. But hey, it's their choice if they want to leave solid business behind.

 

[jayducharme]

I'm hoping that Apple sees the value in what we are doing.

Is there value in another cease-and-desist order? The Apple EULA is pretty specific.

Pricing has also not been finalized on the desktop machines, but the company is looking to start pricing at less than $900.

Another $100 gets you an actual Apple machine. I'm not sure that Quo will make much of a splash.

 

[leekohler]

Is there value in another cease-and-desist order? The Apple EULA is pretty specific.



Another $100 gets you an actual Apple machine. I'm not sure that Quo will make much of a splash.

Another $100 gets you a laptop, not a desktop, with things like seriously upgradeable RAM, hard drive, video card, etc.

 

[LethalWolfe]

My point is that I and many other pros who have used Apple products since the beginning of their existence are feeling that they no longer wish to be involved with us. That's a shame, as the computers they made were so good. My company (a very large multinational advertising agency) is now considering leaving Apple. We use their servers, desktops and laptops. That seems to be quite a large, solid market to ignore. But hey, it's their choice if they want to leave solid business behind.

After you are done here would you be interested in beating your head against a wall or possibly flogging a dead horse? Either one would be a more fruitful venture, IMO.


Lethal

 

[leekohler]

After you are done here would you be interested in beating your head against a wall or possibly flogging a dead horse? Either one would be a more fruitful venture, IMO.


Lethal

Well, it would seem so. What a shame.

 

[blackburn]

Where's the mac apple? Why should I pay 2.449€ for a base mac pro, when my almost 2 year old pc is better in almost every way (only the cpu is a little less faster).

 

[gnasher729]

while I understand why apple will block clones but one thing Apple should take from the clones is it is showing crystal clear to Apple that people like OSX but are not willing to pay the huge Apple premium or the larger issue is with Apple you have to pay for a lot of extra crap to get the one or 2 funictions that you want.

1. Not everybody will buy a Macintosh, but more and more people do. It seems to me that concentrating on the people who actually buy Apple hardware instead of the cheapskates who will find reasons anyway not to buy Apple hardware is very good business sense.

2. If Apple wanted people to be able to run MacOS X on a computer not built by Apple then they would give Dell a call. About four weeks later Dell would be selling a handful of models that are absolutely compatible with MacOS X, and supplying these customers with the exact same service that their Windows customers get today.

So do you think you can give any sane reasoning why letting Quo Computer or another fly-by-night company go ahead would be better for Apple than striking a deal with Dell? And a deal with Dell is obviously not in Apple's best interest - if it was, it would have happened years ago.

If Apple would simply make a reasonably priced tower ($1,600- 2,000), these people would not be in existence. If they continue to ignore this market, these kinds of companies will continue to pop up.

So what? The market for a company like Quo Computer is so tiny. They aim at people who are (1) clever enough to prefer MacOS X to Windows, (2) cheap enough to want non-Apple hardware, (3) too stupid to buy a PC from a reputable company and follow widely available instructions to install MacOS X on it, (4) stupid enough to hand over money to a company that will be bankrupt very soon, and (5) stupid enough not to realise that any savings in money are really marginal. That's a very, very tiny market indeed.

Nobody other than Apple can sell computers with MacOS X installed without going bankrupt in short time. And if MacOS X is not installed on those computers, why would anyone buy them? I'd be ten times more confident that I would get a computer running MacOS X by buying Dell and following instructions from the Internet than by buying from these guys. I'd be hundred times more confident that a year from now, I would at least have working hardware that can run Windows

 

[*LTD*]

Where's the mac apple? Why should I pay 2.449€ for a base mac pro, when my almost 2 year old pc is better in almost every way (only the cpu is a little less faster).

OS X + the Apple software/services ecosystem. If this isn't a factor, you might as well not even consider a Mac in the first place because the OS it runs and the software ecosystem is all the same to you.

 

[yg17]

OS X + the Apple software/services ecosystem. If this isn't a factor, you might as well not even consider a Mac in the first place because the OS it runs and the software ecosystem is all the same to you.

Windows 7 is a fine OS and much improved over previous versions. Macs are no longer worth the premium.

 

[blackburn]

OS X + the Apple software/services ecosystem. If this isn't a factor, you might as well not even consider a Mac in the first place because the OS it runs and the software ecosystem is all the same to you.

I only use os x because it works. It's not my fault that microsoft sucks so hard.
And it's not my fault that apple doesn't have a decent desktop computer. Apple's hardware has some good things like the unibody thing. The rest is just design.
The iMacs overheat like crazy that's why I don't own one, and if I wanted to swap the hdd oh my I would be pretty screwed.

I'm not in favor nor against apple. They have their business tactics, the kind one size fits all.

And Windows 7 still sucks hard. Snow leopard runs better on my hackintosh that windows 7.

Now apple is more worried about ipod/ipads/iphones than the mac. Is asking to much to have an mac? like the Power Mac G4?

 

[KnightWRX]

Windows 7 is a fine OS and much improved over previous versions. Macs are no longer worth the premium.

Everyone says that, but seriously, what truth is there in that ? The switched around the UI a bit, but it's still the same OS as it ever was. NTFS, Drive letters, hacked up Folder mounts, Windows Networking, dozens of version with home users always getting the crippled ones, etc.. etc..

Windows 7 is Vista in a new suit, which was XP in a new suit, which was Windows 2000 in a new suit. I still wouldn't use it for my personal use (I'm stuck using it for work, though I am working management on that) even if I had to go back to Linux, which I happily used exclusively before moving to OS X.

 

[blackburn]

People say that because their pc's are now faster The windows 7 is an service pack for windows vista. They haven't yet start using winfs. And it's still slow as hell. My netbook struggles to keep it up, while windows xp runs just fine or linux for that matter.

 

[leekohler]

So what? The market for a company like Quo Computer is so tiny. They aim at people who are (1) clever enough to prefer MacOS X to Windows, (2) cheap enough to want non-Apple hardware, (3) too stupid to buy a PC from a reputable company and follow widely available instructions to install MacOS X on it, (4) stupid enough to hand over money to a company that will be bankrupt very soon, and (5) stupid enough not to realise that any savings in money are really marginal. That's a very, very tiny market indeed.

Nobody other than Apple can sell computers with MacOS X installed without going bankrupt in short time. And if MacOS X is not installed on those computers, why would anyone buy them? I'd be ten times more confident that I would get a computer running MacOS X by buying Dell and following instructions from the Internet than by buying from these guys. I'd be hundred times more confident that a year from now, I would at least have working hardware that can run Windows

You just sold me on a Dell.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Everyone says that, but seriously, what truth is there in that ? The switched around the UI a bit, but it's still the same OS as it ever was. NTFS, Drive letters, hacked up Folder mounts, Windows Networking, dozens of version with home users always getting the crippled ones, etc.. etc..

Windows 7 is Vista in a new suit, which was XP in a new suit, which was Windows 2000 in a new suit. I still wouldn't use it for my personal use (I'm stuck using it for work, though I am working management on that) even if I had to go back to Linux, which I happily used exclusively before moving to OS X.

You really need to not just split out the standard BS.

There are only 3 version of Window 7 sold the the public. Home, Pro, and Ultimate and pro and Ultimate do not really add much to the home user. The biggest feature added to pro that I would be semi tempted to use is remote desktop. I have no use for the domain log in function and what not.

Enterprise is only sold to companies in volume licensing and some of the big changes to it help with the centralize control and how it is installed over the network.

Starter only sold in countries with pirating problems.

And a net-book version which is only installed on Netbooks and can not be bought from a store.

I do not get what your problem with NTFS is?

As for networking MS did some pretty big improvements in networking when going to Vista and some of annoying hack jobs from XP are gone. Wireless networking was MASSIVELY improved and much easier to deal with. The meta-folders are great and the building in search on the OS is a massive improvement over what XP had.

As for Vista vs 7 I will say 7 fixes a lot of the annoying little problems from Vista. Vista in itself was pretty good it just had a lot of little things that where really annoying and lacking. They fix those and add in some function to the UI that have been need since windows 95. They learned and they put in a lot of request from the user like being able to move things around on the task bar.


Also as it has been pointed out before is OSX worth a 1-2k premium for people like Lee. They have to pay 1-2k extra for crap they do not want or need to get the 1 or 2 functions that they do need. OSX is not worth that much money.

 

[Ttownbeast]

If my G4 and OSX ever becomes completely obsolete (still waiting for that day.....hasn't happened yet), I won't likely go for Windows as an alternative, chances are for me I will buy the hardware build a new machine and switch over to Linux for good.

 

[roadbloc]

Windows 7 is a fine OS and much improved over previous versions. Macs are no longer worth the premium.

Agreed. Windows 7 (when I had it) actually ran better on my mac than Snow Leopard does.

My point is that I and many other pros who have used Apple products since the beginning of their existence are feeling that they no longer wish to be involved with us. That's a shame, as the computers they made were so good. My company (a very large multinational advertising agency) is now considering leaving Apple. We use their servers, desktops and laptops. That seems to be quite a large, solid market to ignore. But hey, it's their choice if they want to leave solid business behind.

It's the same with the music industry. For the first time ever in my career, I am beginning to see studio's using Windows PC's to run studio's instead Mac's. Simply because Windows has caught up with OS X in terms of audio features and latency levels are roughly the same on both platforms. Why bust a ball saving for a Mac, when studio's can now use the cheap PC just as good as OS X.

True, Logic doesn't run on PC. But Pro Tools > Logic.

 

[KnightWRX]

You really need to not just split out the standard BS.

BS ? Sorry if you like Windows, I don't. It's not BS. Drive letters are still there, sure you can mount a disk to a folder, but it's a hack job at best. NTFS is still the filesystem they use, and in the home versions, you still get none of its benefits (ACLs, Quotas, etc..).

It's still the same under the hood APIs (Win32, MFC, COM+) with their new .NET tacked on (which is available as far back as XP), you still manage it using MMC snap-ins or the Control Panel, it still runs explorer.exe. it's still the same damn thing it always was, aside from a few UI candies which look like they were lifted straight from AfterStep or WindowMaker (or the venerable LiteStep which I used to run back in my Windows 98 days, 10 years ago). And why do the Window decorations have to be so in your face ? Bluish transparency what... ? Looks like a botched Enlightenment theme.

There are only 3 version of Window 7 sold the the public.

That's 2 too many. Seriously, how about just shipping 1 out ? I guess that would be too simple for the average mortal to figure out.

I do not get what your problem with NTFS is?

It's crippled in the Home Premium edition (why is it home Premium anyway, what's premium about it if it's the base distribution ?)

Also as it has been pointed out before is OSX worth a 1-2k premium for people like Lee. They have to pay 1-2k extra for crap they do not want or need to get the 1 or 2 functions that they do need. OSX is not worth that much money.

Again, I don't give a crap about the price of Macs. They do what I want at a price point I like. My last 2 Dell laptops before my Macbook were more expensive than what I paid at the Apple Store. And again, if Macs become too expensive, Slackware is still there for me to go back to.

I am against using Windows primarily for ethical reasons, and because my work is in the Unix world secondarily. Even if I had to live with something as retarded as OpenBSD on the desktop, I would. I'd make it work like I always have.

You like what you like. More power to you. I have spouted no BS about Windows, just the facts. You on the other hand have typed up quite the marketing material checklist. Might want to follow your own advice about "BS".

 

[*LTD*]

Are the perennially wrong, misled and uninformed around here going to resort to the argument that Windows is great or something??

Part of the reason we're all here is because we've chosen Macs and OS X . . . *on purpose.* Otherwise I wonder how you justified spending more money on a Mac when a Dell running Windows is the same thing to you.

Windows is still Windows, unfortunately. If you beg to differ, why are you camping a Mac fansite?

 

[belvdr]

Are the perennially wrong, misled and uninformed around here going to resort to the argument that Windows is great or something??

Windows is vastly superior to OS X in some areas and vice versa. There is not one OS that can fulfill the needs of everyone.

 

[yg17]

Windows is still Windows, unfortunately. If you beg to differ, why are you camping a Mac fansite?

Believe it or not, it's possible for people to have both. Or possible for people to have Windows but have an iPhone, iPod or iPad.

 

[*LTD*]

Windows is vastly superior to OS X in some areas

Absolutely. It allows you to buy more time on WoW with the money you saved getting a Dell.

 

[belvdr]

Absolutely. It allows you to buy more time on WoW with the money you saved getting a Dell.

Spoken like someone who is "perennially wrong, misled and uninformed".

Microsoft has integration among many of their products that OS X simply doesn't have (i.e. Exchange, Share Point, Project, etc). By virtue of them not entering the market, it is clear that Apple doesn't desire to fill this niche. I believe their main focus is consumer level and nothing more.