New Mac clone maker, Quo Computer

[KnightWRX]

Spoken like someone who is "perennially wrong, misled and uninformed".

Microsoft has integration among many of their products that OS X simply doesn't have (i.e. Exchange, Share Point, Project, etc). By virtue of them not entering the market, it is clear that Apple doesn't desire to fill this niche. I believe their main focus is consumer level and nothing more.

None of which have remotely anything to do with Windows beyond Anti-trust concerns. Please stick to the subject (and all those products are awful. Sharepoint especially. There are tons of better CMS out there that run on better infrastructure than SQL Server. Exchange's only redeeming factor is Outlook, which is bundled in Office. Otherwise, groupware suites are a dime a dozen.)

 

[*LTD*]

Spoken like someone who is "perennially wrong, misled and uninformed".

Microsoft has integration among many of their products that OS X simply doesn't have (i.e. Exchange, Share Point, Project, etc). By virtue of them not entering the market, it is clear that Apple doesn't desire to fill this niche. I believe their main focus is consumer level and nothing more.

Ah yes, the Microsoft-enterprise lock-in. In a nutshell: some horrible, superseded version of Windows running Microsoft's horrible tools, on the cheapest hardware possible. A user's dream! Or rather, an IT manager's dream. Which is the entire point: Not only will Apple not fill this niche appreciably any time soon, but they'd never be allowed to (which is probably what Steve and co. have realized for years):

The bulk of the IT industry exists in order to keep Windows from falling over. A whole industry has grown up around fixing Windows. The IT industry depends on windows being in a perpetually "broken" state in order to thrive.

Macs in the enterprise means less stage-time for IT. Which means less of a reason for businesses to pay them the exorbitant salaries they'd otherwise be getting.

So why don't businesses invest in Macs from the outset? Too late. MS has had the enterprise by the balls for years now and Apple lost that market. Besides, the lure of hundreds of lousy Windows installs running on hundreds of cheap Dells or deal-of-the-month boxes is just too good to pass up.

 

[Hellhammer]

So why don't businesses invest in Macs from the outset? Too late. MS has had the enterprise by the balls for years now and Apple lost that market. Besides, the lure of hundreds of lousy Windows installs running on hundreds of cheap Dells or deal-of-the-month boxes is just too good to pass up.

Employees would have to be educated for OS X. That ain't exactly cheap and it would decrease productivity when you don't know how to do this and this, at least in the beginning. There are also people who are not willing to learn something new, especially older people. If you've used Windows for decades, the switch won't happen in few days. What do you do for them? You can't just fire them because of that.

Many companies also use some special software and they are often Windows only so again, it's an extra expense if the company has to pay for the developer to make a Mac version. Besides, he may not have knowledge to do it and there may not be a comparable Mac version of it.

There are far more expenses than just the cost of the computers. Companies and industries use what they feel is the best and most suitable for them. You can't do anything about it. Windows is known, pretty much everyone knows how to use it. Even with all its problems, it's what most of the people uses. Apple's lineup is far too narrow to become the mainstream. And no, Macs are not trouble-free.

 

[KnightWRX]

Employees would have to be educated for OS X. That ain't exactly cheap and it would decrease productivity when you don't know how to do this and this, at least in the beginning.

You assume employees have been trained for Windows and know how to do this and this on it.

Hint, they haven't been and they don't.

 

[Hellhammer]

You assume employees have been trained for Windows and know how to do this and this on it.

Hint, they haven't been and they don't.

If you get paid, you must know how to do something. You don't get paid for sitting 8 hours in an office looking at the screen and wondering how to do this and this

 

[DoFoT9]

If you get paid, you must know how to do something. You don't get paid for sitting 8 hours in an office looking at the screen and wondering how to do this and this

yup. i am with you on this one. a basic overview of Windows is taught within the training (even if its not intended, you will still pick it up), and you assume that 90% of new employees can use the Windows OS. the OSX knowledge would be far less.

 

[KnightWRX]

yup. i am with you on this one. a basic overview of Windows is taught within the training (even if its not intended, you will still pick it up), and you assume that 90% of new employees can use the Windows OS. the OSX knowledge would be far less.

Helpdesk departments say you both lie. And if you've ever sat on the helpdesk for more than 2 seconds, you know that people get thrown these computers with basically 0 training. I've had the pleasure to help a fine gentlemen find "The Internet" on his work computer so he could download some data files from an external provider. It basically amounted to : "Do you see the provider's e-mail in Outlook ? Outlook is what you use to read your e-mail. Your job messages. Don't you use corporate e-mail ? If your boss sends you something through the computer... yeah that. Ok, you see where it says Provider ? Click on that. Put the cursor over it and press the button on the mouse. Yeah that thing on your desk. Ok, you see text down there ? Where you read the stuff your boss sends you. Yeah ok, you see that blue underlined part ? Yeah, click that. There you go, hit Save.".

This guy was responsible for electronic management of plans of some of our most critical infrastructure. I kid you not.

Seriously, no one has had "training" on Windows beyond "click icon here". This translates to OS X without any issues. There is no long term or short term or more than "Wait, where's my icon ?" training required.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Again, I don't give a crap about the price of Macs. They do what I want at a price point I like. My last 2 Dell laptops before my Macbook were more expensive than what I paid at the Apple Store. And again, if Macs become too expensive, Slackware is still there for me to go back to.

I am against using Windows primarily for ethical reasons, and because my work is in the Unix world secondarily. Even if I had to live with something as retarded as OpenBSD on the desktop, I would. I'd make it work like I always have.

You like what you like. More power to you. I have spouted no BS about Windows, just the facts. You on the other hand have typed up quite the marketing material checklist. Might want to follow your own advice about "BS".

you don't but the point I was making is apple has given the middle finger to the market that kept them afloat during those years.
That is sad in itself that apple has made it crystal clear that they do not care about that market. Apple has completely abandon it safe core market and has put all of its eggs in the lucrative and very risky consumer market. One thing that is known about the consumer market is consumers get board and changed their mind and what is hot will become cold as ice in a heart beat. It is known that it will happen.
Given that information that means it is a question of when will the consumer market say they are board of apple and no longer look to them. When that happen Apple will have no safe market to fall back on because they already pissed on them and that industry left.

For people like Lee the small advantages OSX has left in that market is not worth the 1-2k per computer.
Software wise OSX is behind the times in Art world. Hardware wise it is left in the dust. Only thing left is some smaller things in the OS. Things not worth 1-2k.

That is the point I was trying to make.

As for some other things in business world any time you need some small market software it is often Windows only. That is a lot cheaper than have to get custom software written and maintain to do the same thing. The custom software could easily cost in the millions per year. Custom software is VERY expensive.

 

[KnightWRX]

you don't but the point I was making is apple has given the middle finger to the market that kept them afloat during those years.
That is sad in itself that apple has made it crystal clear that they do not care about that market. Apple has completely abandon it safe core market and has put all of its eggs in the lucrative and very risky consumer market.

Wait what ? What Apple abandoned is basically a part of the consumer market. The guys who were buying a G4 or G5 tower for around 1200$ and upgrading them in their basements and then pretending to be PhotoShop pros. Prosumers and hobbyist PC builders.

And I doubt they were keeping Apple afloat for anything. You can be sure the last desktops they sold in the 1k-2k price range were probably very low volume, or else they would have kept them around.

Let's face it, I never understood the guys who wanted upgradeable computers who bought Macs. It just made no sense. Sure you could open the case at the flick of a wrist and remove the ram with the thing still running which resulted in hilarity, but otherwise, you want upgradeable and thinkering ? PC is for you. Which I guess translated to sales and to Apple's decision to bring the PowerMac into the pro level exclusively with the Mac Pro, Xeons and ECC RAM.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Wait what ? What Apple abandoned is basically a part of the consumer market. The guys who were buying a G4 or G5 tower for around 1200$ and upgrading them in their basements and then pretending to be PhotoShop pros. Prosumers and hobbyist PC builders.

And I doubt they were keeping Apple afloat for anything. You can be sure the last desktops they sold in the 1k-2k price range were probably very low volume, or else they would have kept them around.

Let's face it, I never understood the guys who wanted upgradeable computers who bought Macs. It just made no sense. Sure you could open the case at the flick of a wrist and remove the ram with the thing still running which resulted in hilarity, but otherwise, you want upgradeable and thinkering ? PC is for you. Which I guess translated to sales and to Apple's decision to bring the PowerMac into the pro level exclusively with the Mac Pro, Xeons and ECC RAM.

I was talking about the Art community and Art market. Apple has completely abandon that professional market.

 

[gnasher729]

you don't but the point I was making is apple has given the middle finger to the market that kept them afloat during those years.
That is sad in itself that apple has made it crystal clear that they do not care about that market. Apple has completely abandon it safe core market and has put all of its eggs in the lucrative and very risky consumer market. One thing that is known about the consumer market is consumers get board and changed their mind and what is hot will become cold as ice in a heart beat. It is known that it will happen.
Given that information that means it is a question of when will the consumer market say they are board of apple and no longer look to them. When that happen Apple will have no safe market to fall back on because they already pissed on them and that industry left.

If people stopped buying iPads, iPhones, iPods, MacBooks and iMacs today, then Apple should close down and return its 45 billion dollars to the shareholders. That "safe market" you are talking about wouldn't justify a share price of more than $5 anyway, so it doesn't matter whether it is gone or not. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple made more money selling AppleTVs than selling to this "core market". Nintendo started out by making playing cards. That was a safe market. Do you blame Nintendo for leaving their safe core market?

Let's face it, I never understood the guys who wanted upgradeable computers who bought Macs. It just made no sense. Sure you could open the case at the flick of a wrist and remove the ram with the thing still running which resulted in hilarity, but otherwise, you want upgradeable and thinkering ? PC is for you. Which I guess translated to sales and to Apple's decision to bring the PowerMac into the pro level exclusively with the Mac Pro, Xeons and ECC RAM.

I don't think there is much upgrading going on in the home PC market. Most people buy a new PC when the old one is so much bogged down with viruses that it doesn't move anymore. Some manage to remove viruses. Exceptional ones manage to add more RAM. I've only ever met one person outside professional circles who upgraded the hard drive on a PC, and _I_ had to do the work If you go to http://www.dabs.com and check out reviews of their internal hard drives, most of the reviews come from Macintosh users.

 

[Hellhammer]

I've only ever met one person outside professional circles who upgraded the hard drive on a PC, and _I_ had to do the work If you go to http://www.dabs.com and check out reviews of their internal hard drives, most of the reviews come from Macintosh users.

Are hobbyists count as "professionals"? I know plenty of gamers who have home built PCs and could upgrade any component without issues and they do that by time to time, but their job has nothing to do with computers. FYI, I'm one of them

 

[leekohler]

If people stopped buying iPads, iPhones, iPods, MacBooks and iMacs today, then Apple should close down and return its 45 billion dollars to the shareholders. That "safe market" you are talking about wouldn't justify a share price of more than $5 anyway, so it doesn't matter whether it is gone or not. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple made more money selling AppleTVs than selling to this "core market". Nintendo started out by making playing cards. That was a safe market. Do you blame Nintendo for leaving their safe core market?

That's hardly a fair comparison.

 

[LethalWolfe]

If people stopped buying iPads, iPhones, iPods, MacBooks and iMacs today, then Apple should close down and return its 45 billion dollars to the shareholders. That "safe market" you are talking about wouldn't justify a share price of more than $5 anyway, so it doesn't matter whether it is gone or not. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple made more money selling AppleTVs than selling to this "core market". Nintendo started out by making playing cards. That was a safe market. Do you blame Nintendo for leaving their safe core market?.

Nintendo started in the game market... and is still in the game market. The technology changed but the core demo is basically the same. Also, you might want to check out Adobe's stock price. It's a little higher than $5 and they service creative professionals almost exclusively.


Lethal

 

[KnightWRX]

I don't think there is much upgrading going on in the home PC market.

Yeah really, there isn't. There isn't any online shopping sites for PC parts that live off of this market, you know, stuff like newegg, ncix, tigerdirect, those just don't exist.

Then there's all the small shops and even big surfaces that don't sell PC parts like HDs, RAM, add-in cards... Bestbuy has none of those.

I was talking about the Art community and Art market. Apple has completely abandon that professional market.

Uh, how exactly ? Because they don't sell a matte monitor you'll say ?

 

[leekohler]

Uh, how exactly ? Because they don't sell a matte monitor you'll say ?

Uh, quite a bit actually. Many of us creative professionals need towers, but we don't need four, 8 or 12 core towers that cost upwards of $3,000. It would also be nice to be able to give a client a Blu-ray of full HD video if need be, which should be possible with any computer that calls itself a "pro" machine.. And I don't mind paying $2,000. $3,000 is asking a lot.

And no- an iMac doesn't cut it.

 

[DoFoT9]

Helpdesk departments say you both lie. And if you've ever sat on the helpdesk for more than 2 seconds, you know that people get thrown these computers with basically 0 training.

* *

Seriously, no one has had "training" on Windows beyond "click icon here". This translates to OS X without any issues. There is no long term or short term or more than "Wait, where's my icon ?" training required.

i work on helpdesk now, have been doing it this whole year. sure, there are those that have a clue, and others that dont. however, i'd say after 6 months of training NONE of these people would still know anything about using Macs (except for those that have them at home), even though we have to provide support for them!

 

[KnightWRX]

i work on helpdesk now, have been doing it this whole year. sure, there are those that have a clue, and others that dont. however, i'd say after 6 months of training NONE of these people would still know anything about using Macs (except for those that have them at home), even though we have to provide support for them!

That's ok, they'll fit in well with the NONE of these people that know anything about using Windows.

Seriously...

 

[roadbloc]

Part of the reason we're all here is because we've chosen Macs and OS X . . . *on purpose.* Otherwise I wonder how you justified spending more money on a Mac when a Dell running Windows is the same thing to you.

Because OS X, at the time of me first buy a Mac, was ahead of the game. It is now becoming increasingly not, and yes, I am debating what my next machine should be when my Mac dies or becomes redundant. If OS X cannot offer anything more than Windows 7 (which at the moment, for my use, it can't), why should I bother forking out the extra £'s? I know many people and studio's that feel the same at this moment in time.

Windows is still Windows, unfortunately. If you beg to differ, why are you camping a Mac fansite?

Read this post again.

 

[*LTD*]

Windows 7 is a fine OS and much improved over previous versions. Macs are no longer worth the premium.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...to_sell_record_3_8m_macs_in_sept_quarter.html

 

[Hellhammer]

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...to_sell_record_3_8m_macs_in_sept_quarter.html

And what exactly does that tell? Apple's year over year growth is quite average

http://www.isuppli.com/Home-and-Con...an-OEMs-Surge-as-Acer-Closes-Gap-with-HP.aspx

 

[leekohler]

And what exactly does that tell? Apple's year over year growth is quite average

http://www.isuppli.com/Home-and-Con...an-OEMs-Surge-as-Acer-Closes-Gap-with-HP.aspx

I don;t think I've ever seen a fanboi quite like LTD. It's astonishing.

 

[DoFoT9]

And what exactly does that tell? Apple's year over year growth is quite average

*snip*

that just appears to be unit shipments, does that mean units that are NOT in the USA? that is kind of confusing and misleading.

 

[KnightWRX]

that just appears to be unit shipments, does that mean units that are NOT in the USA? that is kind of confusing and misleading.

What's confusing about it ? Unit shipment is units shipped for retail sale/online sale. It's all units, including those in the USA.

Unit shipment is what is used to calculate market share, because individual sales are much harder to track.

It's only "confusing" if you refuse to see that Apple is far behind the competition.

 

[DoFoT9]

What's confusing about it ?

*explanation*

It's only "confusing" if you refuse to see that Apple is far behind the competition.

settle down.

i wasnt sure if they meant shipments from the production sites, from here, from there. etc.

define "far behind the competition". if you base shipment numbers solely on far behind the competition - then you might want to rethink that. overall i think apple is near the forefront of computer designs, customer satisfaction (customer support has been rated the best of any computer company), etc. what do you mean?