New MBP—and Everything Else—is Threatening My Apple Purchasing Habits

[tubeexperience]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you think companies that find increasing success and demand for their products have to keep prices flat since their costs for components for those products are decreasing?

Tesla is what Apple once was.

Tesla doesn't have the fastest car, nor the most comfortable seat, nor the best interior, yet people are willing to wait in lines and spent lot of money on its products for what they represent: the cutting edge.

The problem with Apple: it no longer sells cutting edge products.

With Tim Cook at the wheel, Apple has gone from selling cutting edge products to fashionable/luxury goods (along with price hikes).

 

[turbineseaplane]

With Tim Cook at the wheel, Apple has gone from selling cutting edge products to selling luxury goods (along with price hikes).

And nickel and diming everyone at every possible opportunity.

There's a huge difference between high prices for amazing products vs just cheap ass nickel and diming your customers as they are now doing at every turn. It really pisses me off.

Tim's commentary about "customer sat" is just pure hyperbolic BS - His actions as the leader speak the volumes that matter.

 

[tubeexperience]

No, your Apple died with Steve Jobs. Believe it or not, Apple was a thing without him, especially the stuff in a forum like this. Albeit, more of a private club thing. I'll bet there are a few here who would love to see it return to the old days.

Frankly though, I can't remember details. All I know is if Windows was actually better, I would switch.
I remember when the Apple notebooks were not so great; dim screens, and expensive. Now all the pieces come together (but still way expensive, even more so after this launch).

Just rambling.....sorry

The Apple that most people think of (the maker of iPhone, iPod, iPad, MacBook Air, etc) is Steve Job's Apple.

It sure isn't John Sculley's Apple.

 

[Sanpete]

This has become like a typical political discussion, emotionally driven and factually unsupported. Relevant facts that don't fit are disregarded while credos are repeated and repeated and repeated as though to drown them out.

 

[ipponrg]

And nickel and diming everyone at every possible opportunity.

There's a huge difference between high prices for amazing products vs just cheap ass nickel and diming your customers as they are now doing at every turn. It really pisses me off.
.

You could've seen this a million miles away when they hired the Burberry CEO to run Apple retail in 2013 and when they acquired Beats. Both are "luxury" items.

It's comical when people here are complaining about Apple nickel and diming now when they have always done it. Just peruse the Macrumors forums since its inception as well as all the other laptop sites. The titanium Macbook Pro when you configured it had inferior hardware compared to its PC counterparts, yet it cost much more. When I purchased the 2011 MBP, I think I paid somewhere around $2500. I could've gotten a very beefy Dell with a much better GPU for that price. Back in the day when you upgraded your original touch wheel iPod from 10GB to 20GB, it was $399 and $499 respectively.

 

[turbineseaplane]

You could've seen this a million miles away when they hired the Burberry CEO to run Apple retail in 2013 and when they acquired Beats. Both are "luxury" items.

It's comical when people here are complaining about Apple nickel and diming now when they have always done it. Just peruse the Macrumors forums since its inception as well as all the other laptop sites. The titanium Macbook Pro when you configured it had inferior hardware compared to its PC counterparts, yet it cost much more. When I purchased the 2011 MBP, I think I paid somewhere around $2500. I could've gotten a very beefy Dell with a much better GPU for that price. Back in the day when you upgraded your original touch wheel iPod from 10GB to 20GB, it was $399 and $499 respectively.

That's not really what I mean about nickel and diming - on mobile at moment.
Will have to reply another time.

 

[tubeexperience]

You could've seen this a million miles away when they hired the Burberry CEO to run Apple retail in 2013 and when they acquired Beats. Both are "luxury" items.

It's comical when people here are complaining about Apple nickel and diming now when they have always done it. Just peruse the Macrumors forums since its inception as well as all the other laptop sites. The titanium Macbook Pro when you configured it had inferior hardware compared to its PC counterparts, yet it cost much more. When I purchased the 2011 MBP, I think I paid somewhere around $2500. I could've gotten a very beefy Dell with a much better GPU for that price. Back in the day when you upgraded your original touch wheel iPod from 10GB to 20GB, it was $399 and $499 respectively.

Apple has almost always priced its product higher than those of its competitor, but the acquiring of Beats and the hiring of Angela Ahrendts have to be embodiments of the Tim Cook era. Those along with releasing the Apple Watch.
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This has become like a typical political discussion, emotionally driven and factually unsupported. Relevant facts that don't fit are disregarded while credos are repeated and repeated and repeated as though to drown them out.

I just got back from protesting our groper-in-chief.

 

[thekev]

This not the case of Penrose stairs or echo chambers but more like talking to yourself in the mirror IMO

Apple are a upmarket ~5% niche product and theirs nothing wrong with that but it's not a given superior product just an accumulation of personal preferences

There is no industry standard cable that can do everything, USB-C cables has many variants. The wrong choice can cause damage.

USB is supposed to be standardized. If this is actually true, then the spec itself is unstable (and unsuitable for general use).

 

[SteveJUAE]

USB is supposed to be standardized. If this is actually true, then the spec itself is unstable (and unsuitable for general use).

Check for yourself, ignoring what OEM's do at the actual port USB 3.0/3.1/3.1 Gen 2/TB3 etc

The legit good cables can come in variants for both data/transfer and if they can carry 60w or 100w it's suppose to be marked on the cables etc and should not be longer than 1.0m/39" (USB 2.0 was 4m) and have chip info embedded.

Now throw in all these cheap cables and dongles people suggest to buy that do not have the chip identifiers amongst other things in the cables and you are asking for trouble as your compliant device cannot identify and control whatever your attaching too.

I have personally noticed Apple and Samsung dongles act differently to each other even OEM USB-C phone cables/charges etc in some instances cannot be used freely elsewhere. Bootcamp could not even identify Apple dongle.

The pin shape/size and connectors maybe standardise but not everything else it seems

 

[Mildredop]

It's hard to explain why, but 2016 really weakened my "just buy Apple" resolve when it comes down to tech purchases.

Agree. I was ready to buy a new laptop a couple of years ago. The MacBook came out and I decided it was too limited so would stick with my MacBook Pro.

With the new MacBook Pro coming I decided I would buy it whatever, but it's just too limiting. So I didn't buy that either.

I've now developed a very strong "it'll do" attitude to tech. My MacBook Pro is now several years old (2013), it's dented and scratched, but it still works fine.

I'm waiting at least until Apple work out what the hell they're doing. Too many products contradict each other, so I don't really want to invest.
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That's a short term problem that is not strictly limited to Apple because any computer that embraces USB-C will have this issue and on the expense part, Apple had sliced in half the cost of the dongles.

This isn't true. Only a computer that embraces USB-C and no other connector will have this issue.

There's no reason Apple couldn't have also included just one USB.
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While Apple has been working on universal clipboard and implanting USB Type-C, this is what the competitor, Microsoft, has been working on:

MS need to do some sort of Mac trade-in or offer the Surface for a really great price for a while.

I'm close to trying one, but they're just as expensive as a Mac so it's hard to take the punt. The hardware looks good but... it's still Windows.

 

[Charlesje]

I connect all my peripherals + charger via a single port nowadays. The dock costed somewhere around $80-$90.

Really off topic, but I was curious to know what dock you are using. Still looking for a good solution myself.

But on topic, usb-c really is a big breakthrough. De advantage of a universally supported single port type far outweighs the need for dongles at the moment. It won't take long before the different connectors and slot on the older macbooks will seem really old school. But hey, even the old school can be cool if you like so!

 

[Queen6]

MS need to do some sort of Mac trade-in or offer the Surface for a really great price for a while.

I'm close to trying one, but they're just as expensive as a Mac so it's hard to take the punt. The hardware looks good but... it's still Windows.

Think Microsoft was/is doing a deal on Mac trade in`s. I took to plunge and have not looked back, personally I believe my Surface book at $2056 (i7, 256, 8Gb & dGPU) represents far greater value than a comparatively priced MacBook i7, 256, 8Gb non Touch Bar 13" MBP = $1995. That said if you can't deal with Windows the options are very limited...

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

I took to plunge and have not looked back

Same here, I'm not abandoning Macs but I do think I'm getting more value from a Windows machine. I own a low end Surface Book and it represents a more flexible computer then a 13" MBP. True, it will have a slower SSD compared to the MBP, but for my needs its plenty fast.

I do enjoy the tight integration of the Apple ecosystem, but its getting harder to justify the cost. I feel I'm getting more value for my money with the SurfaceBook over the MBP.

 

[Queen6]

Check for yourself, ignoring what OEM's do at the actual port USB 3.0/3.1/3.1 Gen 2/TB3 etc

The legit good cables can come in variants for both data/transfer and if they can carry 60w or 100w it's suppose to be marked on the cables etc and should not be longer than 1.0m/39" (USB 2.0 was 4m) and have chip info embedded.

Now throw in all these cheap cables and dongles people suggest to buy that do not have the chip identifiers amongst other things in the cables and you are asking for trouble as your compliant device cannot identify and control whatever your attaching too.

I have personally noticed Apple and Samsung dongles act differently to each other even OEM USB-C phone cables/charges etc in some instances cannot be used freely elsewhere. Bootcamp could not even identify Apple dongle.

The pin shape/size and connectors maybe standardise but not everything else it seems

Same, I have experienced, and continue to experience issues with USB C, dongles and they are all Apple's own it certainly not as simple as some would think. Cables, basic adaptors are fine, add dongles with logic into the mix things can and do change significantly. I have also experienced the same interoperability issues between differing manufacturers of computers with dongles working only on their own specific hardware correctly.

After over 20 months with a rMB used in a professional role, I have yet to come across a single peripheral that can natively utilise the USB C port, outside of forums such as this, USB C is pretty much non existent. As much as I was, and remain to be exited by USB C/TB-3 the uptake is remains to be slow. I am not say don't go with USB C, what I do think, is consider your usage carefully as for the near to mid term, as it may not be a useful as you might have imagined.

Q-6

 

[leman]

Really off topic, but I was curious to know what dock you are using. Still looking for a good solution myself.

I use this one: http://www.lmp-adapter.com/en/products/cables--adapters/usb-c/lmp-usb-c-mini-dock

Although not without its problems (e.g. only 30@4K limitations), it works very well and the build quality is excellent. But it might be a bit difficult to find it overseas though, in case you are are located in Americas...

 

[Queen6]

Same here, I'm not abandoning Macs but I do think I'm getting more value from a Windows machine. I own a low end Surface Book and it represents a more flexible computer then a 13" MBP. True, it will have a slower SSD compared to the MBP, but for my needs its plenty fast.

I do enjoy the tight integration of the Apple ecosystem, but its getting harder to justify the cost. I feel I'm getting more value for my money with the SurfaceBook over the MBP.

Same, am far from abandoning the Mac, equally not impressed with the current direction. I'll reduce the numbers, hold on to them longer or look to pick an older model. Very much feel the same, I feel I am getting my moneys worth with Surface Book, a similarly priced Mac absolutely not. Yes the 2016 Mac`s have some aspects that are better, however as a package Surface Book wins outright for me.

Neither systems price point intimidates as they are working machines very much paying their own way, however the value needs to exist, for me to justify the purchase to myself. Next go around will likely be a Surface Book with Performance or Base or Surface Book 2.

Q-6

 

[Sanpete]

There's no reason Apple couldn't have also included just one USB.

The reasons would presumably be that it's an inefficient port, and that USB-A adapters are cheap ($5), small and effective. The use of USB-C only maximizes the power and flexibility of the ports.

 

[Altis]

Same, I have experienced, and continue to experience issues with USB C, dongles and they are all Apple's own it certainly not as simple as some would think. Cables, basic adaptors are fine, add dongles with logic into the mix things can and do change significantly. I have also experienced the same interoperability issues between differing manufacturers of computers with dongles working only on their own specific hardware correctly.

After over 20 months with a rMB used in a professional role, I have yet to come across a single peripheral that can natively utilise the USB C port, outside of forums such as this, USB C is pretty much non existent. As much as I was, and remain to be exited by USB C/TB-3 the uptake is remains to be slow. I am not say don't go with USB C, what I do think, is consider your usage carefully as for the near to mid term, as it may not be a useful as you might have imagined.

Q-6

The reasons would presumably be that it's an inefficient port, and that USB-A adapters are cheap ($5), small and effective. The use of USB-C only maximizes the power and flexibility of the ports.

It may not be as good, or the future, but it's still massively widely used and is often the old one available for certain products. Many users are bound to come across it and it's helpful to be able to just connect it and move on with life.

And as Queen6 has expressed, there seems to be a lot of issues still with USB-C/TB3.

 

[Mildredop]

The reasons would presumably be that it's an inefficient port, and that USB-A adapters are cheap ($5), small and effective. The use of USB-C only maximizes the power and flexibility of the ports.

I disagree.

 

[Sanpete]

It may not be as good, or the future, but it's still massively widely used and is often the old one available for certain products. Many users are bound to come across it and it's helpful to be able to just connect it and move on with life.

And as Queen6 has expressed, there seems to be a lot of issues still with USB-C/TB3.

The lack of USB-A is the most easily fixed issue this machine has. Buy some tiny $5 adapters and leave one on the end of each cable you need one for. Fixed. Really not the big issue people are making of it in any practical way.

I disagree.

With what, and on what basis, if any?

 

[aevan]

The lack of USB-A is the most easily fixed issue this machine has. Buy some tiny $5 adapters and leave one on the end of each cable you need one for. Fixed. Really not the big issue people are making of it in any practical way.



With what, and on what basis, if any?

No use, friend, give it a rest. I gave up arguing this a while ago. The port situation is not an issue, the adapters are cheap, you can literally hook them to any USB-A device you have, you can like buy 5 of those for $20 dollars and solve the issue completely, you can replace all the USB cables for a few bucks, it's NOT an issue. It's a minor hassle - if it even is a hassle - for multiple benefits.

For me, if I went into a store and there were two identical MacBook Pros - same in every way - but one of them had extra USB-A ports added somehow, I would still choose the one with only USB-C just for aesthetical reasons - even though I have several USB devices. Because getting a few adapters and cables is just not a problem. It's really not. It's not even an inconvenience. It's, like, having to carry one extra key on my key ring, that's how much of a hassle it is.

It was never about ports, it's about venting other frustrations, people are just using it as an excuse.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@aevan

Has it occurred to you that "it's not an issue for you" doesn't apply to everyone else and their situations?

It's perfectly valid to be really irritated about needing a mess of dongles to do what required none before. There are lots of different usage situations where it might be more/less annoying.

 

[aevan]

@aevan

Has it occurred to you that "it's not an issue for you" doesn't apply to everyone else and their situations?

It's perfectly valid to be really irritated about needing a mess of dongles to do what required none before. There are lots of different usage situations where it might be more/less annoying.

Of course. I understand that people's needs are very much different. I respect that. This is why I understand that every device out there is, in some way, a compromise - because it was not custom made for me.

I'm not talking about the SD card reader, for example. I don't use it, but if you do, hey, I can understand that you would like to have it on the MBP. But this was about USB-A ports. That's what they were talking about - ordinary USB-A ports and how Apple should've added one USB-A.

So, yes, needs are different, but you can literally buy a few cables and be done with the whole issue. You don't even need adapters. USB-C is still USB 3.1 - and 99% USB devices have removable, replaceable cables. For that 1% that don't - you can just hook up an adapter to it's cable and forget about it. I just can't understand how that's a problem for anyone.

But hey, I have an open mind - can you describe a situation where you have to carry a mess of USB-A adapters with you? For example, I have several USB devices that I use daily and I don't have 'a mess' of dongles, I have replaced a few cables, I carry one USB-A + HDMI dongle just in case - I honestly can't imagine a situation where you carry "a mess" of dongles. At worst, I can imagine carrying one dongle - and that's not for USB-A, that's for HDMI or SD Card.

So, I'm waiting for your example. Can you describe a situation where you use USB devices and they cannot be used with a few cheap cable swaps so you have to carry a "mess of dongles"?

 

[turbineseaplane]

I just can't understand how that's a problem for anyone.

Well - perhaps just accept that "it is"?

But hey, I have an open mind - can you describe a situation where you have to carry a mess of USB-A adapters with you?

I don't even use a laptop anymore, so no I don't have a personal example, but I completely recognize that it's a hassle for many and their views on it are totally understandable and valid.
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It's comical when people here are complaining about Apple nickel and diming now when they have always done it.

The specific nickel & diming I sort of have in mind is the purposeful price anchoring on the low end with specs that are past being acceptable (the iPhone stuck @ 16gb forever was an example, but it's been done on most all types of upgrades for the past few years especially).

On the new laptop side, this entire experience of removing every nicety or extra in the box, while raising prices and not throwing in some adapters just sucks. Then they say "we've temporarily lowered adapter prices, so no issue!"

Well - How about including some in the box and always having those lower adapter (still high) prices to ease this USB-C transition?

If they've "always done it", maybe so, but it feels like they are doing it more and in either case it's not a defense of continuing to do it, especially from a CEO so obsessed with "Customer Sat".

This is Bean Counter Tim's MO - loads of SKU's and ways to push accessory sales.

The entire company has become about raising ASP's and keeping margins high, irrespective of most anything else.
It's just frustrating.

 

[aevan]

Well - perhaps just accept that "it is"?

Without giving me a reason? I asked for an example - you don't have to own a laptop. Use your imagination and give me a reason where it's a big deal to buy a few cheap cables. Or where you have to carry a mess of USB-A dongles.

Or, perhaps you should just accept that "it isn't"?