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New Nvidia Drivers for Lion - Allow most cards to run, no EFI or ATY_Init needed

MacRumorUser said:
Hi Guys, some advice..

Would the GTX570 be a decent improvement over the GTX285? I don't have the cash to blow on a 580 & power supply (that would be about €600 here) especially with the iPad 3 due, but i could stretch to a 570. Also a 570 wouldn't require an external power supply id that correct?
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It is indeed a faster card, but with the next generations of nvidia cards on the steps, why buy last years tech.
As fo comparing cards, tomshardware has a nice list that ranks cards relative to each other.It's updated a fairly often:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

tomshardware said:
I don’t recommend upgrading your graphics card unless the replacement card is at least three tiers higher. Otherwise, the upgrade is somewhat parallel and you may not notice a worthwhile difference in performance.
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From the current list the GTX570 is a tier 4 card, and GTX285 a tier 7, so it's an noticeable upgrade, although not the best value for money.
 
Someone help me out, I have a 3,1 MP, with the original ATI Radeon HD 2600. I would like to upgrade to an Nvidia GTX 550 Ti. Reasons being it is cheap, and my main uses will be FCP X, Avid Media Composer 6, and DaVinci Resolve. Would this be a good buy? I will just not have the grey Apple boot screen, right? No problems jump over to Windows in Bootcamp, correct?

The card in question. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130625
 
Cindori said:
You know this is a Mac Pro forum right?
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yes I'm well aware, but it seems that there is better and better support for non-apple branded graphics cards, so why should next generation be different.
I realize that it might not work at all, but i'd wait and see what happens, and there is likely possible to get pretty more second hand cards cheap after a new release.
 
Apple don't make gaming PCs or drivers their hardware doesn't need.

cluthz said:
yes I'm well aware, but it seems that there is better and better support for non-apple branded graphics cards, so why should next generation be different.
I realize that it might not work at all, but i'd wait and see what happens, and there is likely possible to get pretty more second hand cards cheap after a new release.
Click to expand...

In an ideal world the next release of Mac OS X would include the drivers for the next generation of Nvidia and AMD GFX cards.
Unfortunately Apple is always at least 1 generation behind in development of drivers and invariably waits until it plans to put the new gen cards in a piece of hardware before releasing the drivers for it.
Waiting for a next gen Nvidia card that PC manufacturers aren't even in receipt of means 2013 at the earliest if past history is your guide.
Just being able to boot a GTX570 in your Mac Pro soon is enough to make people very happy right now.
 
cluthz said:
yes I'm well aware, but it seems that there is better and better support for non-apple branded graphics cards, so why should next generation be different.
I realize that it might not work at all, but i'd wait and see what happens, and there is likely possible to get pretty more second hand cards cheap after a new release.
Click to expand...

What I meant was that Mac support is usually a year behind. Even for the 580 whic this topic is mainly about, we are getting it now when the 580 released half a year ago.

So basically you are suggesting that the person should wait until Q4 to maybe be able to use Kepler in his Mac. Because it's highly unlikely that Nvidia will add Mac support at the GPU's release in end of March.

You are right about 500 series dropping in price tho.
 
Cindori said:
What I meant was that Mac support is usually a year behind. Even for the 580 whic this topic is mainly about, we are getting it now when the 580 released half a year ago.
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You are more correct than you know.

GTX580 was launched Nov 2010, in time for 2010 Holiday season. We finally got finished drivers for it on OSX, slightly more than a year after release.

These drivers are nice, but keep in mind that even if this functionality goes away, we have actually had this ability just by adding ATY_Init for a couple years now. The GTX5xx drivers not needing device id added is a nice touch, but in reality very little has changed here. Just makes it easier for people too scared to add something to their system folder.

Interestingly, ATY_INit always caused a "Error getting PCI information" in the system profiler. These new Nvidia drivers do the same thing...like maybe they borrowed Netkas method.
 
MacVidCards said:
Interestingly, ATY_INit always caused a "Error getting PCI information" in the system profiler. These new Nvidia drivers do the same thing...like maybe they borrowed Netkas method.
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Somehow, that would not surprise me. However, it would be hilarious.

I also suspect I'd be pretty pleased if  hired some of you guys to get more hardware support in there and gave you resources to work with.

A man can dream...
 
TheStrudel said:
Somehow, that would not surprise me. However, it would be hilarious.

I also suspect I'd be pretty pleased if  hired some of you guys to get more hardware support in there and gave you resources to work with.

A man can dream...
Click to expand...

As I recall there was a lot of speculation that Apple had hired maxxus when he disappeared from the scene.
 
headfuzz said:
As I recall there was a lot of speculation that Apple had hired maxxus when he disappeared from the scene.
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One thing to keep in mind though is that AMD and NVidia still write the video drivers. Apple certainly maintains the GL stack and the driver interfaces (and picks the hardware), but if you want drivers to get a wider range of support you want to push AMD and NVidia. Apple is known to hire engineers that excel in one field, only to put them in another.

Apple gets their fare share of blame for things on this board, but if you're mad about drivers or card availability, AMD and NVidia deserve their fare share too.
 
But it's up to Apple to entice AMD & nVidia to produce better drivers. It's Apple's platform.
 
jeanlain said:
But it's up to Apple to entice AMD & nVidia to produce better drivers. It's Apple's platform.
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Well sure, Apple can do things like drop NVidia if NVidia starts to drag... But at the same time their ability to push GPU manufacturers to make EFI compatible cards is more difficult. Apple doesn't really have a lot of bargaining power there.
 
Wondering if I should go ahead and get a 560ti to replace the 5770 in my 1,1.

Hmmm i know i should see a performance bump in windows for gaming. I can always keep my 5770 around if i ever need the boot screen. I'm just wondering if i'll see that much of a difference performance wise.
 
ReallyRedCobra said:
Wondering if I should go ahead and get a 560ti to replace the 5770 in my 1,1.

Hmmm i know i should see a performance bump in windows for gaming. I can always keep my 5770 around if i ever need the boot screen. I'm just wondering if i'll see that much of a difference performance wise.
Click to expand...

Your biggest bottleneck will be the PCI-e 1.1. I'm guessing you won't see much improvement.
 
goMac said:
Well sure, Apple can do things like drop NVidia if NVidia starts to drag... But at the same time their ability to push GPU manufacturers to make EFI compatible cards is more difficult. Apple doesn't really have a lot of bargaining power there.
Click to expand...
Apple has 100 billions $ in cash. Problems with graphics cards would be solved already, if only Apple wanted them solved.
 
jeanlain said:
Apple has 100 billions $ in cash. Problems with graphics cards would be solved already, if only Apple wanted them solved.
Click to expand...

They could in fact BUY Nvidia and just make their own damn cards if they wished.

But don't tell this to the "deconstruct0" guy. He claims that ML support is being phased out for 1,1 and 2,1 due to Apple's "scarce resources". AT least it was good for a laugh.
 
jeanlain said:
Apple has 100 billions $ in cash. Problems with graphics cards would be solved already, if only Apple wanted them solved.
Click to expand...

MacVidCards said:
They could in fact BUY Nvidia and just make their own damn cards if they wished.

But don't tell this to the "deconstruct0" guy. He claims that ML support is being phased out for 1,1 and 2,1 due to Apple's "scarce resources". AT least it was good for a laugh.
Click to expand...

On the surface having billions in cash doesn't matter as they don't have the expertise to design GPUs. Even the GPU used in the iPad/iPhone is a licensed design, not custom design. If Apple designed a GPU, they'd likely be starting off somewhere behind Intel. So I think Apple having to design their own GPU is the worst possible outcome. And the idea that Apple is going to spend a few billion or more to fix the GPU situation for their least selling Mac line is absolutely insane.

MacVidCard's point is interesting and something I've thought about. Buying NVidia makes sense for a lot of reasons, especially with NVidia making Tegra. So maybe we could see that.

But honestly, Apple's biggest priority is not making aftermarket Mac Pro cards. They always offer a pretty decent range of cards for buying with a brand new machine, it's the aftermarket upgrades they don't really do. And that's really up to the third parties. If you buy a Dell, you don't get mad at Dell if you're having trouble finding a new GPU, you get mad at AMD and NVidia.

Producing EFI cards is not trivial, and is actually pretty expensive if only because they have to have a separate factory line for the flashed cards (and retail space, boxing, etc...) Even inside AMD and NVidia it's a pretty hard sell to argue that they should make aftermarket Mac cards. I think that's one reason the driver teams seem to have given up and added support for PC cards.
 
jeanlain said:
Apple has 100 billions $ in cash. Problems with graphics cards would be solved already, if only Apple wanted them solved.
Click to expand...

People seem to think having a lot of money solves every possible problem out there. They can't control a company they don't own. Sure they can take their business else where, but that only takes you so far.

Being the richest company does not give you super powers.
 
What's the best Nvidia card that doesn't require additional power, so it can run in parallel with a 5870 without much mucking about?
 
I can confirm the GTX 570 works with these drivers. No boot screen, but everything runs just fine.
 
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