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Apps New version of WorkOutDoors, the Workout app with a Map
- Thread starter cfc
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Glad you like it! I have just started writing a User Guide at www.workoutdoors.net/UserGuide.html . It is not very extensive yet, but I will be improving it over time.
In terms of audio you can configure interval alerts (e.g. every mile, every 1000 steps, every 100m of ascent etc) or limit alerts (maximum heartrate, minimum pace etc). These alerts default to haptic notifications and screen messages but you can also turn on voice feedback if you want. To do this go to Settings then Alerts on the watch app and pick the type of alert you want, and then switch on the "Voice" option.
In terms of audio you can configure interval alerts (e.g. every mile, every 1000 steps, every 100m of ascent etc) or limit alerts (maximum heartrate, minimum pace etc). These alerts default to haptic notifications and screen messages but you can also turn on voice feedback if you want. To do this go to Settings then Alerts on the watch app and pick the type of alert you want, and then switch on the "Voice" option.
Update looks great! I didn't realize there was an update until I looked on my phone for the workout after sailing yesterday and my workouts were not transferred.
The Apple Watch version didn't update and my sail from yesterday didn't transfer over to my phone. Took a few trial and errors to get the app updated on the watch. I had to uninstall the app, reboot the apple watch, then add it back to the watch. I guess my sailing activities from yesterday are gone. Not a huge loss but it was an epic sail in 25+mph wind. At least I have my sore muscles this morning as a memory. LOL.
Can't wait to take it back out sailing this weekend and try out all the new screen options.
Thanks for the update!
The Apple Watch version didn't update and my sail from yesterday didn't transfer over to my phone. Took a few trial and errors to get the app updated on the watch. I had to uninstall the app, reboot the apple watch, then add it back to the watch. I guess my sailing activities from yesterday are gone. Not a huge loss but it was an epic sail in 25+mph wind. At least I have my sore muscles this morning as a memory. LOL.
Can't wait to take it back out sailing this weekend and try out all the new screen options.
Thanks for the update!
Sorry you had problems updating. iOS 11 and watchOS 4 do sometimes seem to get confused when installing an app. Unfortunately it's out of the control of the app itself. I am hoping that iOS12 and watchOS 5 are more reliable.
I haven't started properly publicising the new version yet because I am seeing how it goes for existing users first, so please let me know how you get on. If no real issues are reported then I will probably post a new thread here next week detailing all the new features.
Thanks!
I haven't started properly publicising the new version yet because I am seeing how it goes for existing users first, so please let me know how you get on. If no real issues are reported then I will probably post a new thread here next week detailing all the new features.
Thanks!
The update is awesome so far. A couple of comments.
On Steps, this app has the fastest update rate of any step app I have seen or tried, and I have tried a lot. I use and still use Pedometer+ to track steps each day. But Ped+ has a tendency to keep adding steps after I stop walking, for several seconds and also at the end of the walk. But Workoutdoors is the only app that will count 10 steps or 100 steps in real time. So I can walk 10 steps and stop, and it will update in a second or two (adding 9-11 steps) and this is repeatable and reliable at least for me. So that is great.
On Floors climbed, this is the only app that exists that will count and display floors climbed in real time. So thank you. I must be the only one that run up and down stairs or run up and down hills for exercise. Floors climbed is a much harder metric than steps, you usually have to choose to run hills or stairs. But the watch and the phone both have a hard time measuring the top and bottom of the hill if I turn around quickly; this is probably an inherent problem with GPS, since my location can shift by 50+ feet; but even also the barometer, since even sitting motionless, my altitude will vary by 1-3 feet continuously. Anyway, workoutdoors seems to be doing a pretty good job of measuring the total hill climb; I can review the elevation track on my phone and so I can see what it is reading; it does better on the top of my hill than the bottom for some reason (but I think this is GPS error maybe caused by shading of the hill itself).
So this is my question on floors climbed: I have seen workoutdoors take a floor away from me when I am running up and down my hill. Any idea why this occurs? I assume this is some sort of error smoothing logic, so the watch isn't quite sure it was really on the top of the hill because I have turned around and am running back down. So the hill is about 35 feet total; or about 3 floors each time. on 4 or 5 times I have tried the new version, I have seen it take a floor away from in terms of total floors climbed, on my way back down. So I will see it count up to 2 floors, and then 3 floors, and then as I come back down, it will drop back down to 2 floors total climbed. I am not saying this is a bug or that you should even try to fix this, really just curious. This is the only app that provides anything like this feature (I have tried and use multiple other altimeter apps as well to track total elevation climbed but workoutdoors is going to clearly be the best).
I added a screen that will show me both floors climbed and elevation total ascent, so I can see if it is also taking total ascent away as well (but haven't tested that screen yet). Edit: I decided to go back and try this. So the split screen display is very nice. It did not take a floor away this time. My guess is that the GPS logic is missing the top of the hill as I turn around and head back down. The other thing that was interesting was that floors climbed was ahead of ascent. So I got credit for 1 floor at 7 ft and 4 floors at 35 ft and 9 floors at 85 ft. But the end result was pretty accurate (11 floors for 112 feet total).
thanks.
On Steps, this app has the fastest update rate of any step app I have seen or tried, and I have tried a lot. I use and still use Pedometer+ to track steps each day. But Ped+ has a tendency to keep adding steps after I stop walking, for several seconds and also at the end of the walk. But Workoutdoors is the only app that will count 10 steps or 100 steps in real time. So I can walk 10 steps and stop, and it will update in a second or two (adding 9-11 steps) and this is repeatable and reliable at least for me. So that is great.
On Floors climbed, this is the only app that exists that will count and display floors climbed in real time. So thank you. I must be the only one that run up and down stairs or run up and down hills for exercise. Floors climbed is a much harder metric than steps, you usually have to choose to run hills or stairs. But the watch and the phone both have a hard time measuring the top and bottom of the hill if I turn around quickly; this is probably an inherent problem with GPS, since my location can shift by 50+ feet; but even also the barometer, since even sitting motionless, my altitude will vary by 1-3 feet continuously. Anyway, workoutdoors seems to be doing a pretty good job of measuring the total hill climb; I can review the elevation track on my phone and so I can see what it is reading; it does better on the top of my hill than the bottom for some reason (but I think this is GPS error maybe caused by shading of the hill itself).
So this is my question on floors climbed: I have seen workoutdoors take a floor away from me when I am running up and down my hill. Any idea why this occurs? I assume this is some sort of error smoothing logic, so the watch isn't quite sure it was really on the top of the hill because I have turned around and am running back down. So the hill is about 35 feet total; or about 3 floors each time. on 4 or 5 times I have tried the new version, I have seen it take a floor away from in terms of total floors climbed, on my way back down. So I will see it count up to 2 floors, and then 3 floors, and then as I come back down, it will drop back down to 2 floors total climbed. I am not saying this is a bug or that you should even try to fix this, really just curious. This is the only app that provides anything like this feature (I have tried and use multiple other altimeter apps as well to track total elevation climbed but workoutdoors is going to clearly be the best).
I added a screen that will show me both floors climbed and elevation total ascent, so I can see if it is also taking total ascent away as well (but haven't tested that screen yet). Edit: I decided to go back and try this. So the split screen display is very nice. It did not take a floor away this time. My guess is that the GPS logic is missing the top of the hill as I turn around and head back down. The other thing that was interesting was that floors climbed was ahead of ascent. So I got credit for 1 floor at 7 ft and 4 floors at 35 ft and 9 floors at 85 ft. But the end result was pretty accurate (11 floors for 112 feet total).
thanks.
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Wow, thanks for the comprehensive analysis! I'm glad that you like the steps and floors functionality.
The reason that floors sometimes get taken away is exactly as you suspect: due to smoothing in the ascent calculation algorithm. The problem is that the elevation values are inherently inaccurate and so must be smoothed. However you need a time period of several samples in order to smooth them. This means that you can only reliably use a smoothed value from several samples ago. However to use this value would mean that the ascent values are delayed.
So what the app does is calculate the value in two parts: one section up to the latest smoothed value and then a further section after that which uses less smoothed but more up to date data. It is this later section that may change if the data is later smoothed. For example if there was a high value followed by lower values then that high value could mean an extra floor, but then a couple of samples later that value would have been smoothed down and so the extra floor may no longer count.
I hope this makes sense? The algorithm is a bit more involved but hopefully that explains why total floors can go down. As you guessed it is because of smoothing.
I thought that someone would notice the values going down and complain about it, so it is great to hear that you understood why. I hope other people who notice it are just as understanding!
Ascent sounds an easy thing to determine but the inaccuracy of the sensors (especially if using GPS when no barometer) means that there is actually no perfect way to calculate it. If you do not smooth the values then you will get ascent and descent even when the route was flat. Whereas if you do smooth then you will miss the very top of a hill or the very bottom of a dip.
As a result the ascent and descent values are estimates and depend on the degree of smoothing used. As an example if you load the same GPX file into both Garmin and Strava then you will often see quite different estimates of ascent. And that is with recorded data, which is simpler because you do not have the problem described above with live data. The WorkOutDoors algorithm generally gives values between Garmin and Strava for the same data.
It is great to hear about someone analysing the data like this because it took a lot of work to refine the algorithm, including lots of much appreciated testing by beta testers (without whom there would be no app!).
Apologies for rambling on a bit!
The reason that floors sometimes get taken away is exactly as you suspect: due to smoothing in the ascent calculation algorithm. The problem is that the elevation values are inherently inaccurate and so must be smoothed. However you need a time period of several samples in order to smooth them. This means that you can only reliably use a smoothed value from several samples ago. However to use this value would mean that the ascent values are delayed.
So what the app does is calculate the value in two parts: one section up to the latest smoothed value and then a further section after that which uses less smoothed but more up to date data. It is this later section that may change if the data is later smoothed. For example if there was a high value followed by lower values then that high value could mean an extra floor, but then a couple of samples later that value would have been smoothed down and so the extra floor may no longer count.
I hope this makes sense? The algorithm is a bit more involved but hopefully that explains why total floors can go down. As you guessed it is because of smoothing.
I thought that someone would notice the values going down and complain about it, so it is great to hear that you understood why. I hope other people who notice it are just as understanding!
Ascent sounds an easy thing to determine but the inaccuracy of the sensors (especially if using GPS when no barometer) means that there is actually no perfect way to calculate it. If you do not smooth the values then you will get ascent and descent even when the route was flat. Whereas if you do smooth then you will miss the very top of a hill or the very bottom of a dip.
As a result the ascent and descent values are estimates and depend on the degree of smoothing used. As an example if you load the same GPX file into both Garmin and Strava then you will often see quite different estimates of ascent. And that is with recorded data, which is simpler because you do not have the problem described above with live data. The WorkOutDoors algorithm generally gives values between Garmin and Strava for the same data.
It is great to hear about someone analysing the data like this because it took a lot of work to refine the algorithm, including lots of much appreciated testing by beta testers (without whom there would be no app!).
Apologies for rambling on a bit!
I was a beta tester of the app and use it for trail running three times a week, typically for two+ hours and without my iPhone. Previously I have used many specialist and sophisticated running watches.
This is far and away the best solution compared to the alternatives. The app itself is fantastic and easily adaptable to most people's needs and wants. It has been flawless for me.
In addition, I use the Apple Watch to open my car doors and so can run with just the Apple Watch (i.e., sans iPhone and key fob). The app is the key to making that possible. Kudos to cfc!
I have one question that may have been answered: When running I sometimes play music/podcasts via Airpods. After adjusting the volume in Now Playing, the app returns to the watch face and it requires a lot of presses to return to the Now Playing just to adjust the volume.
What is the recommended way to adjust the volume while using the app?
Thanks again!
This is far and away the best solution compared to the alternatives. The app itself is fantastic and easily adaptable to most people's needs and wants. It has been flawless for me.
In addition, I use the Apple Watch to open my car doors and so can run with just the Apple Watch (i.e., sans iPhone and key fob). The app is the key to making that possible. Kudos to cfc!
I have one question that may have been answered: When running I sometimes play music/podcasts via Airpods. After adjusting the volume in Now Playing, the app returns to the watch face and it requires a lot of presses to return to the Now Playing just to adjust the volume.
What is the recommended way to adjust the volume while using the app?
Thanks again!
Firstly many thanks for testing the app - it is very much appreciated! And it's great to hear that you like it so much.
In terms of the volume controls, watchOS 4 does make it a bit awkward to get to the Now Playing screen and back during a workout. However Apple have clearly realised this because watchOS 5 will provide the ability to embed the Now Playing screen within the app, so I will be adding that in a future version.
This version will probably come out soon after the series 4 watches are released (although as a beta tester you will see it earlier). However the timing will depend on whether I need to make any other changes as a result of the new watches. If they are circular then it could take a while!
In terms of the volume controls, watchOS 4 does make it a bit awkward to get to the Now Playing screen and back during a workout. However Apple have clearly realised this because watchOS 5 will provide the ability to embed the Now Playing screen within the app, so I will be adding that in a future version.
This version will probably come out soon after the series 4 watches are released (although as a beta tester you will see it earlier). However the timing will depend on whether I need to make any other changes as a result of the new watches. If they are circular then it could take a while!
Took the app out sailing today. Extremely pleased with screen options. I mainly used the 2nd screen option today.
Got a couple of good workouts as well!
Trying to figure out the pace numbers and how that relates to sailing.
Like last year, the map still shows me sailing though the jetty.
Awesome update! Thanks!
Got a couple of good workouts as well!
Trying to figure out the pace numbers and how that relates to sailing.
Like last year, the map still shows me sailing though the jetty.
Awesome update! Thanks!
That's great - thanks for that.
I had forgotten that I had added that feature! It was a requirement of switching to using data from Mapbox.
I have been looking over the data from yesterday and noticed the elevation readings. How does the tracker calculate this?
For example, on the first lap it shows I 'climbed' 26 feet. The reality is I'm always sailing at whatever level the lake is at... currently 1,920.60 feet above sea level. So theoretically my elevation wouldn't change. However, I am sailing over waves which yesterday was 1-2 feet. Is this a cumulative total? Is the simple fact my boat is climbing up a wave adding to the total? In the same case I'm also falling down 1-2 feet over each wave.
Just curious. I've never paid much attention to elevation with workouts in the past.
Thanks!
For example, on the first lap it shows I 'climbed' 26 feet. The reality is I'm always sailing at whatever level the lake is at... currently 1,920.60 feet above sea level. So theoretically my elevation wouldn't change. However, I am sailing over waves which yesterday was 1-2 feet. Is this a cumulative total? Is the simple fact my boat is climbing up a wave adding to the total? In the same case I'm also falling down 1-2 feet over each wave.
Just curious. I've never paid much attention to elevation with workouts in the past.
Thanks!
The elevation is determined using a barometer if available and if not then by using the GPS elevation. What series of Apple Watch do you have? Series 3 watches have a barometer, which would be more accurate than GPS, but neither is perfect. The app smooths out the values to help reduce the inaccuracy, but it cannot smooth out every variation. The watch barometer only supplies relative elevations to the nearest metre, so even if you had a barometer then it probably counted some of the waves but not others.
To be honest the elevation smoothing algorithm is more suited to land than water! I may look into tailoring it for sailing though, by making it do more aggressive smoothing.
To be honest the elevation smoothing algorithm is more suited to land than water! I may look into tailoring it for sailing though, by making it do more aggressive smoothing.
Went sailing today. Did 3 different outings. The app seemed to do well. While I know the lake fairly well, it was nice having the map right at my wrist as we explored the north end. We don't get up there very often.
Looking at my speed, my max was 7.2 knots. I don't think I've ever sailed that fast before on the boat I was on today. I wonder if sudden arm movements could mess with the speed at all?
Since technically running the app counts towards my exercise minutes I feel like I'm cheating because today I was not exercising sitting on my butt leisurely sailing. I ended up with 368 minutes of exercise and burned 2000 calories. I don't think so. If I was out on my small Sunfish sailboat today then I would agree. Sailing that boat in moderate/high wind is a workout. I disabled the workout data into the Health app except for heart rate. We'll see how it goes tomorrow morning.
I ended the day at 32% battery. Not bad for almost 6 hours of tracking.
Love the update! Thanks!
Looking at my speed, my max was 7.2 knots. I don't think I've ever sailed that fast before on the boat I was on today. I wonder if sudden arm movements could mess with the speed at all?
Since technically running the app counts towards my exercise minutes I feel like I'm cheating because today I was not exercising sitting on my butt leisurely sailing. I ended up with 368 minutes of exercise and burned 2000 calories. I don't think so. If I was out on my small Sunfish sailboat today then I would agree. Sailing that boat in moderate/high wind is a workout. I disabled the workout data into the Health app except for heart rate. We'll see how it goes tomorrow morning.
I ended the day at 32% battery. Not bad for almost 6 hours of tracking.
Love the update! Thanks!
Glad you like the new features! The maximum speed is based on the current speed provided by Apple from the GPS. This is notoriously difficult for them to calculate given the inherent inaccuracy of GPS, so the maximum can seem a little high at times. For step-based activities such as running or walking the app uses the current speed supplied by the pedometer, which is generally more accurate (but still not perfect).
Just discovered something else about the app that I REALLY like. Today, I was going to go for a short bike ride to "test" the GPS, and decided to fire up your app for it, as I like the presentation of all the data. Well, long story short, I discovered my tire was flat 1/4 mile into the ride, so home I came. Now at the beginning/start of the ride, I began the app, and sat on the bike in the driveway, between my car and pickup, waiting for the neighbor to pull out and go down the street.
Track is fine, as good, or better than I expected, but I discovered that apparently there's a bit of "smoothing" of the GPS track that takes place, as you can see between the two screen captures. Where I sat initially, it appears that the GPS "bounced" off the vehicles, and didn't get "on track" until I was going in the street; however in your screen capture, that anolomy is missing. That's a good thing.
Thanks again for a great app.
Thanks! I do plan to add indoor workouts at some point. I initially didn't include them because the unique aspect of the app was the vector map. However the latest version also adds a unique level of customisation (some would say an excessive level of customisation!), which would be just as useful for indoor workouts, so it makes sense to add them.
This app is great, but I think that Apple workouts has also some pros : it's more simple and easier to use for a lot of peopleHoller when you do. I've passed this app along to my other half and friends. It's everything that Apple Workouts should have been from the start, but better
I don't currently own a AW (I use Garmin for my workouts at the moment), but this app is really making it hard to ignore. While I would use this to track my workout, I assume it would not cause any issues when using 2 apps at the same time.
For example, I play a lot of golf. So I would like to track my 'workout' for golf, but also use the AW with my dedicated golf app, such as Hole19. I assume this app can work in the background OK?
Thanks
For example, I play a lot of golf. So I would like to track my 'workout' for golf, but also use the AW with my dedicated golf app, such as Hole19. I assume this app can work in the background OK?
Thanks