Nexus-N/Pixel XL ( 2016 )

[KillaMac]

Yeah, I can't decide between the three phones. Pixel XL, LG V20, and IP7+. Part of me is leaning now towards iphone, because I've had many and I am comfortable with them. I've never owned an LG and with the Pixel being Google's first actual phone, that scares me a little. I just gave up my Note 7 due to the fire recall.

 

[spinedoc77]

Yeah, I can't decide between the three phones. Pixel XL, LG V20, and IP7+. Part of me is leaning now towards iphone, because I've had many and I am comfortable with them. I've never owned an LG and with the Pixel being Google's first actual phone, that scares me a little. I just gave up my Note 7 due to the fire recall.

Well it's not really Googles first phone, it's HTC who really made it. Really there is no difference than how the Nexus line was made, the whole "google made" thing is just pure marketing, at least in terms of the hardware.

 

[KillaMac]

Well it's not really Googles first phone, it's HTC who really made it. Really there is no difference than how the Nexus line was made, the whole "google made" thing is just pure marketing, at least in terms of the hardware.

well that is good to know. So it seems you can't order it, just a wait list on googles site?

 

[tbayrgs]

Well it's not really Googles first phone, it's HTC who really made it. Really there is no difference than how the Nexus line was made, the whole "google made" thing is just pure marketing, at least in terms of the hardware.

Well, based on what I've been hearing from tech media podcasts, that's not exactly true. Yes, HTC is manufacturing the Pixels but the design was handled by Google, vs. in the past these ODMs would submit designs for Nexus consideration by Google. By all accounts, HTC is the OEM in the same way the Foxconn is for Apple's iPhone.

 

[bmac4]

I think constructive criticism is a better term. If we vent why we won't give up our hard earned money maybe Google can learn something. But I hear ya, we should let you guys enjoy your pixel purchase as we've said our piece. I'm very curious what it looks and feels like in person and can't totally rule it out until I see it in action.

We're all smartphone owners and that commonality should keep us from trashing each others purchases. The pixel is still a very nice phone, especially if you avoid the Verizon one.

I completely get the criticism. I completely support criticism because no company or phone is perfect. I just don't understand the constant bashing. I have not seen you doing this that much here, so I will not say I am tired of your post. It's others here that seem to keep saying the same stuff over and over. I mean you said once, we don't need it 10 times.

Also I am not getting the phone. I am a happy iPhone 7 owner. However, I love what Google is doing. I know the phone is not perfect, and it has it's shortcomings for $700+. The thing is Google is taking Android and their phone to the next level. AI is the next big thing in smartphones, and they have just crushed the competition. More then that, they are saying to all Android OEMs, either you play by our rules or your phones won't being getting the full versions of the updates. I have been hoping for this for a very long time. Samsung won't do this, and this gets their sorry asses out quicker. They have been destroying Android for years, but making some amazing hardware for the last couple of years. Now it's time they see what they can do without Google's support. They think they are bigger then playing by Google's rule, so let's see what they have. After this Note 7 s***show, I don't know what there plan is. It's going to be very interesting.

 

[spinedoc77]

I completely get the criticism. I completely support criticism because no company or phone is perfect. I just don't understand the constant bashing. I have not seen you doing this that much here, so I will not say I am tired of your post. It's others here that seem to keep saying the same stuff over and over. I mean you said once, we don't need it 10 times.

Also I am not getting the phone. I am a happy iPhone 7 owner. However, I love what Google is doing. I know the phone is not perfect, and it has it's shortcomings for $700+. The thing is Google is taking Android and their phone to the next level. AI is the next big thing in smartphones, and they have just crushed the competition. More then that, they are saying to all Android OEMs, either you play by our rules or your phones won't being getting the full versions of the updates. I have been hoping for this for a very long time. Samsung won't do this, and this gets their sorry asses out quicker. They have been destroying Android for years, but making some amazing hardware for the last couple of years. Now it's time they see what they can do without Google's support. They think they are bigger then playing by Google's rule, so let's see what they have. After this Note 7 s***show, I don't know what there plan is. It's going to be very interesting.

I think I'm guilty of bashing it a bit. I admit some bitterness that IMO google fumbled this. I had aspirations of Google being probably the only company left which could rival Apple (with Samsung being knocked out until the S8 due to the Note 7 fiasco). So I think some of my criticism of the pixel is rooted in that bitterness and disappointment in Google. Oh god I know I sound like an old guy yelling at the kids to get off his lawn, but we all know how important our smartphones are to us. I do have high hopes for AI, but today there isn't much difference between google assistant and google now, at least in the reviews I've been reading and playing around with Allo. If the AI does evolve I'm not so sure that Google alienating the rest of the Android world, even its own Nexus users, by making it exclusive to themselves is the best strategy. Honestly I'm still baffled at why Google would care more about hardware profits than selling the most devices with Android on them.

I also don't see Google telling anyone they need to play by the rules. It's already been announced that Verizon will handle the OS updates for the Verizon Pixel, so they totally caved on that one like a wet paper bag.

 

[bmac4]

I think I'm guilty of bashing it a bit. I admit some bitterness that IMO google fumbled this. I had aspirations of Google being probably the only company left which could rival Apple (with Samsung being knocked out until the S8 due to the Note 7 fiasco). So I think some of my criticism of the pixel is rooted in that bitterness and disappointment in Google. Oh god I know I sound like an old guy yelling at the kids to get off his lawn, but we all know how important our smartphones are to us. I do have high hopes for AI, but today there isn't much difference between google assistant and google now, at least in the reviews I've been reading and playing around with Allo. If the AI does evolve I'm not so sure that Google alienating the rest of the Android world, even its own Nexus users, by making it exclusive to themselves is the best strategy. Honestly I'm still baffled at why Google would care more about hardware profits than selling the most devices with Android on them.

I also don't see Google telling anyone they need to play by the rules. It's already been announced that Verizon will handle the OS updates for the Verizon Pixel, so they totally caved on that one like a wet paper bag.

Yeah I know Google Assistant is nothing really really special when compared to Google Now, but it's a lot better then anything anyone else can offer. So I get that you don't see it as this huge leap forward. I compare it to Siri, or S voice. It runs circles around those, and hopefully this pushes them to work to make something to complete.

In terms of me saying Google telling people to play by their rules, I don't mean carriers. They lost that battle to them a long time ago. If they had not agreed to let Verizon do the updates, I am pretty sure that would have been game over for them with Verizon. The same would have been the case with AT&T. Maybe T-Mobile or Sprint would have been more open, but you get way less reach with either of those companies.

When I said they are telling people to play by their rules, I am talking OEMs. Samsung has played by their own for a long time now. They have furthered themselves away from Android every single new phone they make with TouchWiz. Then they gave a big middle finger to Google when they made their smart watch with Tizen. Now it's Google's turn to fire back. If they would like to continue to make these decisions, well then the best features of the newest versions of Android won't be coming to Samsung. They may not even get the newest version. Samsung may not be able to afford that right now. All the US carriers are pulling the Note 7, and I just saw something that they were trying to hide that one of the replacements exploded. They think they can just sweep this under the rug and it will go away. More then ever they need Google and Android support, and I think more then ever it's time for Google to say FU.

I will go back to a scenario I used before. So we have average Joe/Jane walk into Best Buy to get a new phone on Verizon. They are looking for an Android phone.

Samsung guy @ BB- How can I help you today?

Joes/Jane- I am looking to get a new android phone on Verizon.

Samsung guy- Great, well I have this awesome Galaxy 7 that has an amazing screen.

Joe/Jane- Don't those phone explode or something?

Samsung guy- That was just our Note 7, and it was a small problem. We fixed the issue.

Joe/Jane- Ok? Where is that phone?

Samsung guy- The Verizon decided to not sell it anymore, but they have the S7 and it's a really great phone.

Joe/Jane- Ok, well I have been seeing the ads for Google assistant. I really want that, does this phone have that?

Samsung guy- Not right now, but we have S voice that is very similar as well as Google Now. Both are very similar and do the same things.

Joe/Jane- So it can do all the stuff they show on tv right?

Samsung guy- Mostly, and it does things in a different way.

Joe/Jane- It does not really sound the same. Will this phone get Google assistant?

Samsung guy- Right now we don't have it, but we hope to get it in a future update.

Joe/James- So your not sure if you will get it or not? That is the one I really want.

Samsung guy- We hope to be getting it soon, but we have this amazing screen and really great battery life. We also have the S7 Edge that the screen wraps around the edge. Take a look isn't it amazing?

Joe/Jane- It does look nice, but I really like Google assistant and I believe the phone on tv was called the Pixel. Do you guys have that?

Samsung guy- Let me find Simone in the mobile phone department to help you with that.

Honestly specs don't matter to people like this. They see the cool new feature, and that is what they want. They don't care that Google Now is pretty much the same. They want GA. The problem is, Samsung has not idea if they will even get it. People aren't going to want to hear that. I think this will be a big selling point for the Pixel. We also all know most customers aren't going to care that Verizon is handling the updates. They don't even know when their phone updates.

 

[Blaze4G]

The stabilization seems to be one of the best! Who needs OIS?!

Came across someone on reddit doing an Ama. Here is a test video he did:

 

[spinedoc77]

Yeah I know Google Assistant is nothing really really special when compared to Google Now, but it's a lot better then anything anyone else can offer. So I get that you don't see it as this huge leap forward. I compare it to Siri, or S voice. It runs circles around those, and hopefully this pushes them to work to make something to complete.

In terms of me saying Google telling people to play by their rules, I don't mean carriers. They lost that battle to them a long time ago. If they had not agreed to let Verizon do the updates, I am pretty sure that would have been game over for them with Verizon. The same would have been the case with AT&T. Maybe T-Mobile or Sprint would have been more open, but you get way less reach with either of those companies.

When I said they are telling people to play by their rules, I am talking OEMs. Samsung has played by their own for a long time now. They have furthered themselves away from Android every single new phone they make with TouchWiz. Then they gave a big middle finger to Google when they made their smart watch with Tizen. Now it's Google's turn to fire back. If they would like to continue to make these decisions, well then the best features of the newest versions of Android won't be coming to Samsung. They may not even get the newest version. Samsung may not be able to afford that right now. All the US carriers are pulling the Note 7, and I just saw something that they were trying to hide that one of the replacements exploded. They think they can just sweep this under the rug and it will go away. More then ever they need Google and Android support, and I think more then ever it's time for Google to say FU.

I will go back to a scenario I used before. So we have average Joe/Jane walk into Best Buy to get a new phone on Verizon. They are looking for an Android phone.

Samsung guy @ BB- How can I help you today?

Joes/Jane- I am looking to get a new android phone on Verizon.

Samsung guy- Great, well I have this awesome Galaxy 7 that has an amazing screen.

Joe/Jane- Don't those phone explode or something?

Samsung guy- That was just our Note 7, and it was a small problem. We fixed the issue.

Joe/Jane- Ok? Where is that phone?

Samsung guy- The Verizon decided to not sell it anymore, but they have the S7 and it's a really great phone.

Joe/Jane- Ok, well I have been seeing the ads for Google assistant. I really want that, does this phone have that?

Samsung guy- Not right now, but we have S voice that is very similar as well as Google Now. Both are very similar and do the same things.

Joe/Jane- So it can do all the stuff they show on tv right?

Samsung guy- Mostly, and it does things in a different way.

Joe/Jane- It does not really sound the same. Will this phone get Google assistant?

Samsung guy- Right now we don't have it, but we hope to get it in a future update.

Joe/James- So your not sure if you will get it or not? That is the one I really want.

Samsung guy- We hope to be getting it soon, but we have this amazing screen and really great battery life. We also have the S7 Edge that the screen wraps around the edge. Take a look isn't it amazing?

Joe/Jane- It does look nice, but I really like Google assistant and I believe the phone on tv was called the Pixel. Do you guys have that?

Samsung guy- Let me find Simone in the mobile phone department to help you with that.

Honestly specs don't matter to people like this. They see the cool new feature, and that is what they want. They don't care that Google Now is pretty much the same. They want GA. The problem is, Samsung has not idea if they will even get it. People aren't going to want to hear that. I think this will be a big selling point for the Pixel. We also all know most customers aren't going to care that Verizon is handling the updates. They don't even know when their phone updates.

Great points/discussion. I don't see Google attempting to make Samsung accountable in any way. Sure Google is making Assistant exclusive, but they are not holding it over anyone's head in exchange for them to fall in line. They are simply making it exclusive. This will actually exacerbate the issue and may force Samsung to put more RD/money into Svoice, and/or develop Tizen more. Samsung has been preparing for this anyway and preparing G-app alternatives. The danger being that Google may lose what I believe is their number 1 customer, and who knows who else might defect. Huwaei is playing around with Tizen as well, and who knows who else behind the curtains.

At the end of the day I'll bet having eyeballs on more phones is MUCH more valuable than selling a paltry volume of hardware. If Android means to push the oems into better OS decisions, sort of like MS and the surface pushed oems to better hardware decisions, I don't think the pixel will inspire or push any of them.

 

[Blaze4G]

Here is the sound test between 6p and xl:

I am watching this video from my 6p Lol so can't really tell which is better but the xl seems to be as loud as the 6p. I may be wrong though.

Xl is on the right.

 

[tbayrgs]

The stabilization seems to be one of the best! Who needs OIS?!

Came across someone on reddit doing an Ama. Here is a test video he did:

The EIS does seem to work quite well but of course, the entire time I'm watching the video the grumpy old man in me is thinking, 'portrait orientation for video, seriously?'

 

[bmac4]

Great points/discussion. I don't see Google attempting to make Samsung accountable in any way. Sure Google is making Assistant exclusive, but they are not holding it over anyone's head in exchange for them to fall in line. They are simply making it exclusive. This will actually exacerbate the issue and may force Samsung to put more RD/money into Svoice, and/or develop Tizen more. Samsung has been preparing for this anyway and preparing G-app alternatives. The danger being that Google may lose what I believe is their number 1 customer, and who knows who else might defect. Huwaei is playing around with Tizen as well, and who knows who else behind the curtains.

At the end of the day I'll bet having eyeballs on more phones is MUCH more valuable than selling a paltry volume of hardware. If Android means to push the oems into better OS decisions, sort of like MS and the surface pushed oems to better hardware decisions, I don't think the pixel will inspire or push any of them.

I have to agree with most of that. I am not sure Google is completely telling Samsung get get on board or get out, but they are telling them without stock android you will not be getting all the features Android offers. And I agree this may just end up causing Samsung to work harder on Tizen and Svoice. I am just not sure how they bounce back completely from the Note 7 mess. People don't forget things like that very fast. If Google takes advance now, and they gain some sales from Samsung customers. It may be a large hole Samsung has to dig out of.

If I am in the market for an Android phone right now, Samsung would be last place I turn. They have some of the best hardware right now, but I don't trust them. I am a tech guy as well, I can't see people that don't keep up with this kind of thing seeing it much different. All they know is Samsung phones exploded. I am sure most don't know which phone. I think Samsung needs Google more then Google needs Samsung. JMO.

 

[nj-morris]

Because of the Note 7 discontinuation, this could be very successful.
[doublepost=1476191266][/doublepost]Can we change the name of this thread?

 

[spinedoc77]

I have to agree with most of that. I am not sure Google is completely telling Samsung get get on board or get out, but they are telling them without stock android you will not be getting all the features Android offers. And I agree this may just end up causing Samsung to work harder on Tizen and Svoice. I am just not how sure I am they bounce back completely from the Note 7 mess. People don't forget things like that very fast. If Google take advance now, and they gain some sales from Samsung customers. It may be a large whole Samsung has to dig out of.

If I am in the market for an Android phone right now, Samsung would be last place I turn. They have some of the best hardware right now, but I don't trust them. I am a tech guy as well, I can't see people that don't keep up with this kind of thing seeing it much different. All they know is Samsung phones exploded. I am sure most don't know which phone. I think Samsung needs Google more then Google needs Samsung. JMO.

But that's the thing, I don't see Google really saying anything like that to Samsung, at least not in public. They are simply saying they are keeping assistant for themselves. I agree that it would be powerful for Google to tell Samsung they can only have Assistant if they follow their OS recommendations, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So on the surface it seems that no matter what Samsung does, they will not get Assistant until Google decides to release it to everyone else.

I completely agree with the strategy btw, for Google to hold back it's G-apps and make the oems follow their recommendations instead of having these skins and such. But really Android should be more modular than it is in terms of oem customization, we should be allowed to turn off all of those customizations. Along with this they need to standardize drivers or whatever they are called in Android, so Samsung doesn't need to customize the entire OS just to get its S pen working, for example.

But Google does have that window of opportunity with Apple being lax, and Samsung having a bad reputation. I think they will slip in and sell more pixels than anticipated, but I still don't see it being a big success either in providing hardware profits for Google, giving them more eyeballs for advertising, or convincing oems to do anything different than what they are doing. What I see happening is the Chinese and mid grade phone makers are going to move in with sub $400 flagship phones. The market always moves to the lowest common denominator, although there are exceptions like Apple. So Apple will always stay expensive, Samsung can stay expensive because they always come out with crazy but good stuff, and besides them you will just have $400 or less phones floating around and all the middlemen like Motorola/Lenovo and LG will be forced to drop down to that $400 tier or die, and I put Google into that category as well.

Anyhoo will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[bmac4]

But that's the thing, I don't see Google really saying anything like that to Samsung, at least not in public. They are simply saying they are keeping assistant for themselves. I agree that it would be powerful for Google to tell Samsung they can only have Assistant if they follow their OS recommendations, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So on the surface it seems that no matter what Samsung does, they will not get Assistant until Google decides to release it to everyone else.

I completely agree with the strategy btw, for Google to hold back it's G-apps and make the oems follow their recommendations instead of having these skins and such. But really Android should be more modular than it is in terms of oem customization, we should be allowed to turn off all of those customizations. Along with this they need to standardize drivers or whatever they are called in Android, so Samsung doesn't need to customize the entire OS just to get its S pen working, for example.

But Google does have that window of opportunity with Apple being lax, and Samsung having a bad reputation. I think they will slip in and sell more pixels than anticipated, but I still don't see it being a big success either in providing hardware profits for Google, giving them more eyeballs for advertising, or convincing oems to do anything different than what they are doing. What I see happening is the Chinese and mid grade phone makers are going to move in with sub $400 flagship phones. The market always moves to the lowest common denominator, although there are exceptions like Apple. So Apple will always stay expensive, Samsung can stay expensive because they always come out with crazy but good stuff, and besides them you will just have $400 or less phones floating around and all the middlemen like Motorola/Lenovo and LG will be forced to drop down to that $400 tier or die, and I put Google into that category as well.

Anyhoo will be interesting to see what happens.

Agreed. Who knows what the future holds for the Pixel, but I think they have a great chance to exceed expectations now.

I wish Google would force OEMs hands, but who knows. May just say screw you, we are only offering GA to our phones and you will never get it. I am fine with that too.

 

[Tig Bitties]

One of my Facebook friends on the group page " Droids4Life " got a Pixel XL from a Google employee friend of his. I asked him this;

- How does it compare to a Nexus 6P running a custom ROM ? Night and day performance difference ? Or just a hair better ?
Screen quality ? Is it a big upgrade in the display over the 6P ?
Like · Reply · 10 hrs · Edited

Kevin I'll say this, I have a 6P, and I don't see the reason to upgrade this year, the Pixel XL is NOT worth the upgrade from the 6P, it's just a little nicer phone.

 

[bmac4]

One of my Facebook friends on the group page " Droids4Life " got a Pixel XL from a Google employee friend of his. I asked him this;

- How does it compare to a Nexus 6P running a custom ROM ? Night and day performance difference ? Or just a hair better ?
Screen quality ? Is it a big upgrade in the display over the 6P ?
Like · Reply · 10 hrs · Edited

Kevin I'll say this, I have a 6P, and I don't see the reason to upgrade this year, the Pixel XL is NOT worth the upgrade from the 6P, it's just a little nicer phone.

This post comes as such a surprise.

Guess what, people said the same thing about the iPhone 7 from the 6s, and the 7 has the same exact screen. Guess what, that did not make it a great phone. It sure didn't stop me and many many millions of people from buying it.

 

[Blaze4G]

One of my Facebook friends on the group page " Droids4Life " got a Pixel XL from a Google employee friend of his. I asked him this;

- How does it compare to a Nexus 6P running a custom ROM ? Night and day performance difference ? Or just a hair better ?
Screen quality ? Is it a big upgrade in the display over the 6P ?
Like · Reply · 10 hrs · Edited

Kevin I'll say this, I have a 6P, and I don't see the reason to upgrade this year, the Pixel XL is NOT worth the upgrade from the 6P, it's just a little nicer phone.

Well the guy doing the ama on reddit says it is worth it. Better camera, says the battery life is great. He had 4 hours screen on time with 53% left. That included lots of bench mark test and taking pics / videos. He was extremely impressed with Google assistant and how quick it pick up his voice and responded.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion though. Think it is clear to everyone that you're not a fan of the pixel though. No need to repeat it over and over lol

Edit: he owns a 6p too.

 

[Tig Bitties]

I just strongly recommended the Pixel XL to my coworker. He's on Verizon and asked me what to do with his Note 7 ? He really likes his N7, doesn't want to return but knows he should, in case Samsung stops supporting it, etc...

He asked if the Pixel is waterproof, he really liked that feature, and likes the screen and camera on his Note 7. I said no the Pixel XL is not waterproof, but everything else should be on par and better than your Note 7. Just as nice screen, better cmarea, and overall a great phone.

So he's taking my advice, said ok, I trust you, and if you recommend this Pixel XL on Verizon, I will listen to you, and exchange my Note 7 and order the Pixel.

Anyone I know on Verizon, I highly recommend the Pixel, it's the best Android phone of 2016, and if your not a iPhone guy, it's the best smartphone coming out

 

[epicrayban]

Here is the sound test between 6p and xl:

I am watching this video from my 6p Lol so can't really tell which is better but the xl seems to be as loud as the 6p. I may be wrong though.

Xl is on the right.

Promising! The speaker is a concern for me.
[doublepost=1476209359][/doublepost]

I just strongly recommended the Pixel XL to my coworker. He's on Verizon and asked me what to do with his Note 7 ? He really likes his N7, doesn't want to return but knows he should, in case Samsung stops supporting it, etc...

He asked if the Pixel is waterproof, he really liked that feature, and likes the screen and camera on his Note 7. I said no the Pixel XL is not waterproof, but everything else should be on par and better than your Note 7. Just as nice screen, better cmarea, and overall a great phone.

So he's taking my advice, said ok, I trust you, and if you recommend this Pixel XL on Verizon, I will listen to you, and exchange my Note 7 and order the Pixel.

Anyone I know on Verizon, I highly recommend the Pixel, it's the best Android phone of 2016, and if your not a iPhone guy, it's the best smartphone coming out

From what little I've read of your criticisms of the Pixel lineup, I find no faults. They're all warranted concerns. Google missed many opportunities both in features (dual speakers, waterproofing) and marketing (Verizon exclusivity, etc.)

At the same time, given the smartphone landscape, it's as you said, the best premium Android option at the moment.

It's just such a shame Google didn't push the hardware forward in any discernable way. They entered it -- and that is big news that cannot be ignored -- but they could've entered it with a much bigger splash. As I said, missed opportunities.

I have a Pixel pre-ordered for my father and will make my decision from there. Even if I want the S8, I'd wait for the first batch to go through in light of their recent QC debacle. This might be the phone to tide me over.

 

[mclld]

No waterproof is just a big face palm when the top competitors are doing it. I cant believe there are people who would not want this feature in a phone

 

[Blaze4G]

Another video stabilization test:

Better than Samsung's ois and on par with iphones ois IMO.

 

[spriter]

Another video stabilization test:

Better than Samsung's ois and on par with iphones ois IMO.

Waiting to see some more camera and video tests but it looks promising. If their claims about speed of shot and the DxO rating prove accurate, I'm interested when my contact comes up for renewal shortly. Seems like it's this or iP7 now the Note 7 has been out out of its own misery and LG just don't care about Europe.

 

[daveathall]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion though. Think it is clear to everyone that you're not a fan of the pixel though. No need to repeat it over and over lol

Edit: he owns a 6p too.

I think that is a bit unfair, I have read many of his posts over a good few years and found them to be unbiased. Straight talking I will give you. Well worth reading and taking note though.

 

[tbayrgs]

No waterproof is just a big face palm when the top competitors are doing it. I cant believe there are people who would not want this feature in a phone

I'd love my devices to be more waterproof...same goes for wireless charging. For my preferences though, they're nice to haves only...not significant enough for me to not purchase a phone. My last 3 phones haven't had either and not once did I find my smartphone usage was compromised by their omission.

Again, not saying they shouldn't be included, just that at his point they don't impact my purchase decision, at least not like elements such as fast charging, camera performance, battery performance, etc.