No 2018 iMac?!

[Zdigital2015]

But it's literally a unique selling point, on the apple website:

Advanced thermal management. Cool.
Packing all that performance into such a slim all-in-one design required a new approach to cooling the system. We redesigned the thermal architecture of iMac Pro with innovative dual blowers, a high-capacity heat sink and extra venting. The result? Almost 75 per cent more airflow and an 80 per cent increase in system thermal capacity. Which lets iMac Pro handle 500 watts — 67 per cent more power than the 27-inch iMac.​

Because they crammed a 140w TDP CPU into a 77w TDP CPU chassis, not because they may or may not upgrade an existing cooling system for a 91wTDP to accommodate a 95w TDP CPU.

ECC DRAM is a USP...128GB MAX DRAM versus 64GB is a USP...offering up to 18 cores versus a max of 4c/8t is a USP...the T2 chip is a USP. The redesign of the cooling system to accommodate the CPU and the Vega GPU is an engineering tout more than a USP, but Marketing often takes seemingly innocuous things and inflates them into some sort of USP.

Whether Apple takes the lessons learned with the Pro and incorporates them into the regular iMac is a quarter toss at this point and either it will be a bullet point on the Features page or we will find out when iFixit opens one up.

 

[Rockah]

Fair enough. Thanks for your technical insight!

 

[sebulban]

Could they use GPU in x8 mode to save 8 PCIe lanes for thunderbolt and ssd?

I remember that running gpu in x8 or x16 mode does not make much difference. If they’re running gpu a bit under clocked anyway(compared to standard desktop counterpart) would that be reasonable?

 

[fokmik]

They really need to absorb the imac pro into the normal future 27" imac line..what i mean by that
To remove the fusion drive and come with ssd only, make the same thermal management inside like the pro (one line in production means better profit margins), same 2 colours choices space grey or silver configure the future 27" imac from the i5 and i7, up to current xeon and 128 EEC RAM, from the dGPU Vega up to the Vega 64..to be the most configurable imac ever

 

[Zdigital2015]

They really need to absorb the imac pro into the normal future 27" imac line..what i mean by that
To remove the fusion drive and come with ssd only, make the same thermal management inside like the pro (one line in production means better profit margins), same 2 colours choices space grey or silver configure the future 27" imac from the i5 and i7, up to current xeon and 128 EEC RAM, from the dGPU Vega up to the Vega 64..to be the most configurable imac ever

You're forgetting the 21.5" iMac line. Where does it go? Away?

Also, if the 27" iMac goes SSD only, do you think the base price of $1799 is going to stay the same? Because right now, I can guarantee that Apple will raise the base RAM to 16GB and the base SSD will still be a rather mild 256GB, which will effectively raise the entry price to $2099, possibly $1999 if Apple is feeling really generous (I have my doubts).

The only plus will be more base DRAM, while the initial cost goes up for a base configuration, on top of which you will also need to pre-purchase all the DRAM you may ever need when you purchase the iMac, because the RAM door will be gone and the same will go for the SSD, because 256GB may be enough for some, but most will balk and that means that users are not going to get out the door for less than $2299 for a 16GB/512GB Flash/570X model using the base i5-9500 CPU, which is $500 more than what they paid for the 2017 model. Do you work for Apple? If not, you should, because you just guaranteed the ASP for the iMac will be much higher even if they sell a lot less of them in 2019.

A move like that will end up making a top of the line Core i7 a BTO option with a minimum cost of $2699 and any Core i9 option is a $2899 minimum purchase with a RADEON PRO 570X GPU. So, nope. They need to stay two separate product lines. Space Grey is cool and all, but I prefer my iMac in Silver to simply cost less.
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Could they use GPU in x8 mode to save 8 PCIe lanes for thunderbolt and ssd?

I remember that running gpu in x8 or x16 mode does not make much difference. If they’re running gpu a bit under clocked anyway(compared to standard desktop counterpart) would that be reasonable?

The dGPU in the MacBook Pro runs at x8 and has since since as far back as I can remember (or at least 2011, since that is the oldest MBP I can get my hands on right now).

Apple could, but I guess that would garner some negative publicity and might actually be a bad tradeoff for those that use multiple monitors on an iMac where feeding a 5K iMac display and a secondary 2.5K, 4K or 5K display might actually be impacted or perform less optimally than Apple would like for basic macOS windows tasks, animations, etc. especially in cases where users actually hit the limits of what the iMac can support (1-5K, 2-4K or 2-4K DCI).

I have my doubts Apple will resort to doing that. It would be nice if Intel made 20 or 24 lanes of PCIe 3.0 the minimum for their Core i-Series CPUs, but it seems that is being held back to move people to the Core X-Series (minimum x28 lanes of PCIe 3.0 on the CPU). Always more $$$.

 

[fokmik]

the 21.5" will have the same product line up, the 27" can remain the same base price...why?? because, in late 2018, an 256SSD can cost like a this year 1T fusion drive...they can put the 256SSD from the last year gen with read and writes of 800Mbs...so here is not a problem..
Like i said...space grey is nice, silver is nice...thats why i said to keep and let the user chose, like the MBP is
To make a 2 separate line of the imac but with the same cooling inside...apple will never do that (profit margins)...either will stick with the current one, and that means bad news for us with that want/need i7 6C inside, or go like i said same cooling inside and make the 27" the most customisable iMac..

 

[Zdigital2015]

the 21.5" will have the same product line up, the 27" can remain the same base price...why?? because, in late 2018, an 256SSD can cost like a this year 1T fusion drive...they can put the 256SSD from the last year gen with read and writes of 800Mbs...so here is not a problem..
Like i said...space grey is nice, silver is nice...thats why i said to keep and let the user chose, like the MBP is
To make a 2 separate line of the imac but with the same cooling inside...apple will never do that (profit margins)...either will stick with the current one, and that means bad news for us with that want/need i7 6C inside, or go like i said same cooling inside and make the 27" the most customisable iMac..

Apple does not go backwards on SSD speeds, and I expect the 2018 iMac will at least maintain the current 2017’s speed at a minimum, but will most likely switch to NVMe SSDs running at 3200MB/s READ/2200MB/s WRITE as the MacBook Pro and iMac Pro have now. If Apple equips the iMac as SSD only, the base price will go up, it will not keep the current base price. Apple is quite proud of its Flash Storage and charges accordingly.

I could care less about grey versus silver, but I suspect that even if the iMac and the iMac Pro share the same chassis, the Pro will keep Space Grey as an exclusive. I personally think the iMac will retain its current chassis and memory access door for one more generation and then a whole new chassis for the iMac/Pro/21.5”/27” will be forthcoming in 2020, either with Cannon Lake CPUs or A-Series, depending on what Apple has up it’s sleeves.

 

[mreg376]

I personally think the iMac will retain its current chassis and memory access door for one more generation and then a whole new chassis for the iMac/Pro/21.5”/27” will be forthcoming in 2020, either with Cannon Lake CPUs or A-Series, depending on what Apple has up it’s sleeves.

I share your hope that the memory access door stays for at least one more generation, but remember that it's already gone on the 21.5" iMacs, so Apple can easily get rid of it without a "redesign" on the 2018/2019 27" iMac.

 

[danwells]

The "most configurable iMac ever" unfortunately doesn't work, because it's two totally different motherboards and chipsets. Even if you made the 27" more "iMac Pro-ish" by using the better cooling, SSD only, and perhaps desktop RAM, it would still be using a Core i series socket and chipset, which takes up to a Core i7-8700K and soon an i9-9900K if the rumors are right. Above that, you switch to a socket with nearly twice as many pins, largely to accommodate all the PCIe lanes. Apple has always used the Xeon versions of the big sockets, rather than the closely related enthusiast HEDT versions. Small socket and big socket are not the same board - they aren't even similar unless you want to cripple the big socket by not using the extra lanes - there's no reason you couldn't make a big-socket board with restricted lanes, but why would you want to?

 

[fokmik]

I share your hope that the memory access door stays for at least one more generation, but remember that it's already gone on the 21.5" iMacs, so Apple can easily get rid of it without a "redesign" on the 2018/2019 27" iMac.

if this year imac gets redesign...then is no longer "one more generation" if it will keep it, will continue doing so for another 3-4 years..if not..then, bye RAM UR
I love a redesign, to get a better micron display sealed with the chassis and vents, and redesign interior for a better cooling. One more month to go i guess

 

[Hater]

It's not that hard to replace the RAM on a 21.5" iMac, in fact my next purchase (if the new Mac Mini is no good) will be a 21.5" iMac with base RAM and base Fusion + SSD that i'll upgrade myself.

I already have a 34" screen, so going to 27" would be a step back. 34" + 21.5" will be ample for the next 8 years (hopefully)

 

[alien3dx]

if this year imac gets redesign...then is no longer "one more generation" if it will keep it, will continue doing so for another 3-4 years..if not..then, bye RAM UR
I love a redesign, to get a better micron display sealed with the chassis and vents, and redesign interior for a better cooling. One more month to go i guess

just give the old mac pro bulky design.. we add our own ram and so..This is pro and we can extends ourself. Unless yada2 iphone/ipad trap again and again 12 september
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It's not that hard to replace the RAM on a 21.5" iMac, in fact my next purchase (if the new Mac Mini is no good) will be a 21.5" iMac with base RAM and base Fusion + SSD that i'll upgrade myself.

I already have a 34" screen, so going to 27" would be a step back. 34" + 21.5" will be ample for the next 8 years (hopefully)

i'm using 21 samsung and 21 base line with external ssd. I'm not doing 4k video. I just need hardrive speed compiling . Since osx like to have a lot of program and compress ram on it.. Buy minimum 16 GB..My mistake again thinking from mac mini 4gb think it was same as linux.It is horrible not even match.

 

[Hater]

i'm using 21 samsung and 21 base line with external ssd. I'm not doing 4k video. I just need hardrive speed compiling . Since osx like to have a lot of program and compress ram on it.. Buy minimum 16 GB..My mistake again thinking from mac mini 4gb think it was same as linux.It is horrible not even match.

Yeah my current solution is an MBP with 16GB RAM, i'd like to go 32GB as it runs out of RAM on occasion.

It's a pity the 21.5" only has 2 slots

All my videos are currently 1080p, but the 4k screen would be good for the future when I do upgrade my cameras... only one of mine is that it'll only do it at 30FPS, yuck

 

[alien3dx]

Yeah my current solution is an MBP with 16GB RAM, i'd like to go 32GB as it runs out of RAM on occasion.

It's a pity the 21.5" only has 2 slots

All my videos are currently 1080p, but the 4k screen would be good for the future when I do upgrade my cameras... only one of mine is that it'll only do it at 30FPS, yuck

I'm doing a lot of video next month for my apps and maybe using da vinci since i don't like much final cut pro .My member now using my old mac mini 4GB ,and i sell halve of the price to him.He only do 720 and 1080i only.

 

[Zdigital2015]

The "most configurable iMac ever" unfortunately doesn't work, because it's two totally different motherboards and chipsets. Even if you made the 27" more "iMac Pro-ish" by using the better cooling, SSD only, and perhaps desktop RAM, it would still be using a Core i series socket and chipset, which takes up to a Core i7-8700K and soon an i9-9900K if the rumors are right. Above that, you switch to a socket with nearly twice as many pins, largely to accommodate all the PCIe lanes. Apple has always used the Xeon versions of the big sockets, rather than the closely related enthusiast HEDT versions. Small socket and big socket are not the same board - they aren't even similar unless you want to cripple the big socket by not using the extra lanes - there's no reason you couldn't make a big-socket board with restricted lanes, but why would you want to?

Without claiming to be a telepath, lest I be smited for putting words in other poster's mouths, I think there are two things at work, IMHO.

1. People say they do not care about the space grey color, but they do and want Apple to offer it on the regular iMac, because...$5000 starting price.
2. The iMac Pro really messes with some user's heads, because it starts at $5000, yet it is based on a chassis that starts at $1799, which causes a severe disconnect. I saw this before the iMac Pro was released and the Xeon W had been introduced and several PC oriented sites were aghast at the price, claiming they could build a PC with better performance at half (or less) the price, which they couldn't (they ended up at about $300 less and all of a sudden it got real quiet). Personally, I remember the launch of the Mac II, IIfx, Iici, et al., so that initial price tag did not phase me, not that I am buying one anytime soon.

For goodness sake, do not give Apple any ideas about restricting Pro performance with artificial caps, there already seems to be enough knocks against Apple for not embracing NVIDIA GPUs and CUDA. LOL! Just my 2c.

 

[Zandros]

Problematic and expensive hubs? Not sure what you are talking about there, but sure. Hopefully, Intel will stop being so stingy with PCIe lanes on the CPU or the chipset or at least widen the connection between the CPU and the PCH.

I'm talking about USB-C hubs. I don't expect we will see more PCIe lanes on the CPU with Cannon Lake Refresh, but honestly I think Apple could use PCIe 3.0 x8 on the regular iMac GPU without any noticeable issues and use the rest of the on-CPU lanes for other things.

Edit: Seems like I missed a page of replies. Oh well. Anyway, I can't find any USB-C to more USB-C hubs at all, so all the more reason to have more ports on the computer.

 

[xxray]

Blows my mind that the latest iMacs come standard only with hard/fusion drives, only 8GB of RAM, and i5 processors. i5 processors aren't the end of the world, but no SSDs or more RAM standard, even on the higher-end models? Crazy.

 

[alien3dx]

Blows my mind that the latest iMacs come standard only with hard/fusion drives, only 8GB of RAM, and i5 processors. i5 processors aren't the end of the world, but no SSDs or more RAM standard, even on the higher-end models? Crazy.

i use that now hope it can really surpase my 3 laptop windows period end of life 1 year keyboard lenovo out. 3 year keyboard acer out 3 year keyboard acer out

 

[Hakiroto]

Blows my mind that the latest iMacs come standard only with hard/fusion drives, only 8GB of RAM, and i5 processors. i5 processors aren't the end of the world, but no SSDs or more RAM standard, even on the higher-end models? Crazy.

Yeah, the base models are pretty bad. Maybe the typical user is fine with those but a Fusion Drive and 8 GB RAM is pretty poor for 2018. Let's hope they change that in the coming months.

 

[alien3dx]

Yeah, the base models are pretty bad. Maybe the typical user is fine with those but a Fusion Drive and 8 GB RAM is pretty poor for 2018. Let's hope they change that in the coming months.

paying a grand for base line annoy but paying mac pro max like other with a lot issue ..I'm not sure how ehm ehm. Like mac dustbin the price didn't drop much in second hand department.

 

[craigrusse11]

Blows my mind that the latest iMacs come standard only with hard/fusion drives, only 8GB of RAM, and i5 processors. i5 processors aren't the end of the world, but no SSDs or more RAM standard, even on the higher-end models? Crazy.

It’s disgraceful that Apple think it’s acceptable to charge $2000 for the “high end” factory configuration which has a spinning 2tb hard disk that’s artificially accelerated with 128Gb of cache.

This config will perform great in artificial benchmarks, but try use it in any meaningful way and watch the performance tank big time when it hits the disk. Complete waste of money.

Looking into the future, it’s also ridiculously unbalanced to be offering (if this happens next month) a blazing fast 6c12th CPU with a disk that has a throughput of 100mb/s, especially when nVMe now offers Gb/s and is not that more expensive when considering specing up a $2000 system. The fusion drive has to go, it’s time is up!

 

[mreg376]

Yeah, the base models are pretty bad. Maybe the typical user is fine with those but a Fusion Drive and 8 GB RAM is pretty poor for 2018. Let's hope they change that in the coming months.

Well I think that this is Apple's way, if you can call it that, to keep the base machines affordable but keep its profit margins. Apple is still competing to an extent with the likes of Dell and HP, and if the base price goes over $2,000 sales will decrease.

 

[fokmik]

So now we have AMd radeon RX Vega M GL...can the imac use these new chips? or these are less powerful than current 580 ?

 

[craigrusse11]

So now we have AMd radeon RX Vega M GL...can the imac use these new chips? or these are less powerful than current 580 ?

They could, but i can see them being used in mac mini before imac.

 

[gusping]

They could, but i can see them being used in mac mini before imac.

Agreed.

Even the non-pro iMac 5k deserves a Vega 56 at least in my opinion, even if it is an optional upgrade.