No new M3 Mac Studio. No new adult size iMac…. for YEARS.

[Allen_Wentz]

What's wrong with the M2 Studio? Is there something it can't do?

The only thing "wrong with the M2 Studio" is the fact that its release was very, very slow in coming. So much so that I for one was forced into buying an M2 MBP instead and using it as a desktop box - - even though an M2 Studio was what I really needed.

Apple seems to be continuing that Delay-Studio-Release policy and IMO Apple's policy s*cks.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

You do realize that, if Apple were to launch the M4 Studio in March 2025, it would be exactly three years after the launch of the M1 Studio, with the M2 Studio in between?

So Apple will have refreshed the Studio, on average, every 18 months since launch.

So I gather you’re really just complaining about the Mini. Why didn’t it get M3? That’s a good question. I’ll guess it’s because Apple will keep it on the same cadence as the other desktops going forward. It had a special role in the Apple Silicon transition, as both the first Apple-silicon Mac (the 2020 Developer Transition Kit) and the last Intel Mac, but that is over now. So the Mini won’t refresh until the Studio and Pro do.

Or, coming from a 27" iMac, maybe you’re just unhappy about its demise. There are literally tens of thousands of comments about this. I wish people would complain about something that Apple might actually feel the heat about. Because whining about the 27" iMac when the Studio Display exists and you can put it on top of a Mini or a Studio just isn’t productive.

Can we start complaining about the display lineup? I mean, come on, they have killed the iMac/iMac Pro and they are asking us to buy into the Mini/Studio, but all they’re offering us to go with them is a 5K panel that will soon be ten years old, or a five year old Pro Display that is due for a refresh. Can we get a 30" Retina 5760x3240 display with ProMotion?

I can think of about nineteen other possible displays I’d love to see!

Saying "Apple... ...refreshed the Studio, on average, every 18 months" is simply an attempt at deflection. The complaint herein is how Apple has delayed Studio release relative to other Apple products; e.g. M2 Studio was so delayed that I was forced to buy an M2 MBP instead. Today it looks like Apple is skipping (at least one) entire chip generation, continuing to confound Studio buyers. Not good when a firm confounds its bread-and-butter core buyers.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

It's as simple as considering revenue shares:

• iPhone (%) 50.65%
• iPad (%) 6.13%
• Mac (%) 8.21%
• Services (%) 26.30%
• Wearables, Home & Accessories (%) 8.72%"

https://en.macromicro.me/collections/21/us-apple/243/global-iphone-sales-ratio

In total, Macs, especially desktop Macs, don't sell in high enough numbers or earn Apple enough to warrant the frequent and big hardware upgrades we see for iPhone and other more mobile devices.

Apple earns far(!) more on its array of fully or semi-incompatible with non-Apple products-products and services, like iPhone, iPad, Watch, AirPods, etc.

Another way to look at it is that Macs sit "outside" Apple's Walle Garden, and don't really incentivize sales of apps through Apple's App Store(s), or purchasing AirPods, Watch, etc.

Lots of freedom for Mac owners when it comes to headphones, hardware accessories and apps means, comparatively, far fewer profits for Apple's shareholders.

Just the hardware price for your average Mac is a "gate" that makes them much less accessible to the masses, leading to lower sales, comparatively. iPhone, iPad, Watch, etc., can be bought on payment plans, with all kinds of deals and trade-in discounts, making them far more attractive and easier to acquire.

It's also the same reason Apple has been so slow at improving AAA gaming on Macs: Revenue generated by App Store mobile games are absolutely phenomenal. Both by comparison to competitors and to Macs. Cheap to make and can earn perpetually.
Consumers naturally aren't playing these games on their Macs but on iPhone and iPad.

Overall, it's just about prioritizing the products and services that that consumers increasingly want that also earn Apple the most, which is mobile devices, iPhone, iPad, Apple Vision Pro, etc.

Although nothing drastic from year to year, I'd expect new Mac releases to slow exponentially over time. Maybe even get retired entirely in 10-20 years depending on how fast products like Apple Vision Pro can be improved.

Are we expecting the kids growing up with AI devices to know how to or need to operate a desktop computer like the Macs we have today?

I disagree with analysis that simplistically looks at revenue %. It is not about Macs deserving less attention because they are "only 8%." Macs are the 4th largest computer sales in the world. That is huge, and deserves and gets full attention. It is why big firms have divisions.

 

[Tdude96]

The only thing "wrong with the M2 Studio" is the fact that its release was very, very slow in coming. So much so that I for one was forced into buying an M2 MBP instead and using it as a desktop box - - even though an M2 Studio was what I really needed.

Apple seems to be continuing that Delay-Studio-Release policy and IMO Apple's policy s*cks.

I have a feeling that's where I'm going to wind up with this. Luckily, there are M3 MBPs coming onto the resale market, so if one of my current machines carks it before the next Studio releases, or I just get really tired of dealing with a messy workflow, it's a sale Apple will miss entirely.

 

[Bafflefish]

I have a feeling that's where I'm going to wind up with this. Luckily, there are M3 MBPs coming onto the resale market, so if one of my current machines carks it before the next Studio releases, or I just get really tired of dealing with a messy workflow, it's a sale Apple will miss entirely.

Why not just get a refurbished M3 MBP in that case?

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I have a feeling that's where I'm going to wind up with this. Luckily, there are M3 MBPs coming onto the resale market, so if one of my current machines carks it before the next Studio releases, or I just get really tired of dealing with a messy workflow, it's a sale Apple will miss entirely.

People like us mostly will still use some kind of Apple product. But Studio-type users have been core to Mac usage literally forever. Apple repeatedly scr*ewing that core group is terrible policy.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Why not just get a refurbished M3 MBP in that case?

Of course that is the kind of place scr*wed wannabe Studio buyers often end up at; I did. But the point is we want to build/buy a modern Studio, not some substitute box with less ports, etc.

My M2 MBP is a spectacular box; its only flaw is that it is not the Studio that I wanted to buy.

 

[NachoNoir]

This is EXACTLY where I'm at. My iMac (late 2012 i7 27" but well equipped; 32GB, 3TB Fusion, 680GTX) is falling apart, and for six months I've had the money to get a new machine, but:

- I want 32GB RAM. That rules out all Mn machines which top out at 24GB.

- I just don't want a laptop, period. I have another laptop from work, and I don't want to pay >1000€(1) more for a MacBook Pro specced similarly to a Studio; a screen, keyboard and battery I will barely use; and a machine I will have to throw away whole when it gets obsolete/something fails eventually (very likely for the battery). Please, don't tell me "just get a MBPro!".

- I don't want a 24" screen (iMac), I have a 27" right now and I don't want something smaller. Also, no M3 Pro/Max iMac.

- I would go temporarily with a Mini M2 Pro, but it is a very bad deal where I live; it costs about 50€ (!!!) less than a similarly specced Studio M2 Max (32GB, 1TB SSD) (2)

- And finally, I don't want to buy an M2 Max Studio when the M3 Max, which is already MUCH faster and has upgraded GPUs has already been out for >8 months, and the M4 has already been presented with much upgraded Neural Engine cores. Don't tell me "what does the M2 Max Studio don't do for you now?". I just don't want missing key features (GPU, NE) that serve Apple as an excuse to drop OS/features support for my machine sooner than expected.

So here I am. Ready to burn about 3.000€ on a new mac that I can keep for, let's say, 6-7 years; and with no real options.

(1) Where I live a 12-core/30GPU M2 Max, 32GB 1TB Mac Studio costs 2658€. A 12-core M3 Pro, 36GB 1TB 14" MBPro costs 3509€, and a 14-core (not even the 16 version!) M3 Max, 36GB 1TB 14" MBPro costs 4049€, an 850€ and 1350€ premium respectively.

(2) The 12-core/19GPU M2 Pro, 32GB 1TB Mini costs 2603€ vs 2658€ the M2 Max Studio. Fun fact; in the US they cost THE SAME at the Apple Store ($2199).

 

[Bafflefish]

Of course, and I wish they had updated the Studio also, but I also think that to this:

I disagree with analysis that simplistically looks at revenue %. It is not about Macs deserving less attention because they are "only 8%." Macs are the 4th largest computer sales in the world. That is huge, and deserves and gets full attention. It is why big firms have divisions.

it’s not just about what the total Mac sales are, but also the breakdown in those sales. If the Studio only accounts for 5% of sale (I’m making that up, I don’t know what % it is), then it’s going to inherently be de-prioritized relative to those devices that do make up the majority of sales, which I would fully expect to be the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro, in all likelihood, and why those see consistent year-to-year updates usually.

There’s also just the fact that, at least when it comes to the Ultra-class SoCs, you’re talking about an even smaller proportion of sales more than likely. I’m sure they make quite a bit of profit off of it, but if they make $1,000 off each Mac Studio Ultra configuration while making $500 off of a MacBook Pro, but they’re selling 100x the number of MBPs as they are Studios, that’s an easy decision on what to prioritize.

I really want an M4 Max Mac Studio. I also really wish that they could update the Studio’s base model with the M4 Max when they roll it out to the MBPs, or at least sometime after. I also understand why they don’t (it’ll likely cannibalize at least some prior-gen Ultra-class Studios, and also take SoCs away from MBPs on what’s probably a somewhat-limited process node at that time).

And at the end of the day, if you need a Max-based Mac Studio, you could still pick up a base M2 Max-based Studio on sale at times for $1750 to $1800 or going higher for some upgraded version, use it for some period and re-sell it for a significant amount to put towards the M4 Studios when they’re released. (And you could even do this with a M3 Max MBP too, but that seems to be antithesis to what you want)

If you need Ultra-level, the M2 Ultra Mac Studio (and MP) is still the best-performing Mac right now, so yeah, it’s been out for a year now and technically two generations “old”, but it’s still best-in-class.

Of course that is the kind of place scr*wed wannabe Studio buyers often end up at; I did. But the point is we want to build/buy a modern Studio, not some substitute box with less ports, etc.

My M2 MBP is a spectacular box; its only flaw is that it is not the Studio that I wanted to buy.

My response was more about why buy a MBP off of the resale market instead of going with a refurbished. The savings usually isn’t enough on current gen to take the risks relative to just grabbing one from Apple’s refurbishment process.

 

[tiguanito]

I have the same dilemma. I was ready to pull the trigger on a new Studio with M3 or M4. I don't want to buy a new M2 now when I see the improvements in the M3 that has been on the market for 8 months. One option is the 14" MBP M3 Max 14/30 with 36GB /1TB, although it doesn't really make sense to get a laptop that will be used in clamshell mode 95% of the time. And will throttle the CPU and increase the fan speed every time I push it a little bit.

 

[tenthousandthings]

Saying "Apple... ...refreshed the Studio, on average, every 18 months" is simply an attempt at deflection. The complaint herein is how Apple has delayed Studio release relative to other Apple products; e.g. M2 Studio was so delayed that I was forced to buy an M2 MBP instead. Today it looks like Apple is skipping (at least one) entire chip generation, continuing to confound Studio buyers. Not good when a firm confounds its bread-and-butter core buyers.

No doubt Apple is working to compress the development-time lag between the Max and the Ultra, as we’ve already, in just the third generation, seen them eliminate the gap between the base M and the Pro/Max. I doubt it (the delay for the UltraFusion silicon bridge) will ever be completely eliminated, because it is leading-edge technology. Apple was first to market with it in the M1, before Nvidia or anyone else, and it was vastly improved in M2. It’s an impressive engineering feat (in alliance with TSMC), and M4 looks like it will be another leap forward.

You can argue that Apple should just release the Max Studio when that silicon is ready, and let the Ultra Studio and Pro lag behind, but I’ll bet there are good business reasons why they don’t.

That said, there’s a decent chance M4 resolves some of this. The five-month lag isn’t a sign of disrespect, it’s a sign of level-of-difficulty.

 

[TechnoMonk]

What Folks need to consider is Apple started scaling up a mobile processor by multiplying the soc for ultra. Apple started with designing variations of Pro and Max has different layout. I would imagine M4 Ultra would be lot different than just calling a Max or Pro. I hope Apple could get more than just twice of Max with ultra. It’s too early to predict the upgrade cycles of Apple silicon.

 

[Bungaree.Chubbins]

I am a little sad about the fact that laptops have taken over and desktops are a dying breed. I still miss my G4 PowerMac. They were great machines. I won't be able to afford one for a while, but I hope to get a decent Mac mini at some point. It's nice to be able to just sit down and work at a desk all set up, and leave the laptop in the bag.

This is utter nonsense.

The battery and the display will last long past the useful lifespan of the machine, and you should be upgrading well before then anyway. Thinking about a computer purchase as like a 10 year item is ridiculous, especially if you're a working professional.

I am a draftsman, and worked in AutoCAD on a 2012 11" i7 MacBook Air until a couple of months ago when I upgraded to a 14" M3 Pro MBP. I am hoping, and frankly expecting, to get a decade out of this machine too.

 

[russell_314]

Depends entirely on the game. BG3, for example, runs wonderfully on my iMac, it is in fact “easy” and “works well”.

Sure there are one off games that work perfectly on the Mac. If you know you only want to play specific games then you’re good. That’s just not the majority of games out there though. I dislike Windows for general use, but if you’re interested in gaming it’s the only way to go.

 

[Ethosik]

Genuine piece of advice here— get yourself a nicely discounted M1 iMac, refurbished or second hand, then (as long as you have a decent internet connection) subscribe to NVIDIA GeForce now. I do exactly this and it’s perfect. Ray tracing/RTX, the whole shebang.

Internet still is not there yet (assuming the original poster to your comment is in the US). I have Gigabit cable internet (no Fiber in my area) through Spectrum and GeForce Now is still a pain to use.

 

[zombierunner]

I am using a 2015 iMac 27 inch. Seriously hope M4 Max Mac Studios are launched in the fall and not in May 2025.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I have never experienced so many problems with trying to buy an appropriately updated Apple Desktop
in 35 years.

I finally decide to trash my ancient iMac and buy a new desktop but seems Apple is incapable of launching new models on a semi yearly or even 3-4 year basis.

What gives?

Part of it I think is the desktop form factor isn't required for good performance anymore. You can hit the kind of performance you'd want from a high spec 27" iMac in a 14" laptop, with a cooling system that's even quieter than the 27" desktop was.

We hit that point about 3-4 years go, which unsurprisingly tracks pretty well on to the 3-4 years you mentioned.

If you go back to first principles and ask why someone would want an all in one desktop at this point, you're looking purely at simplicity and subjective taste. Valid reasons, sure, but it also doesn't surprise me that the desktop isn't being updated as frequently or attentively as the portable devices where there is still a lot of room for meaningful improvement.

 

[LFO8]

That’s a $5,000 machine right there. I bought my Mac mini m2 pro 512/16 for $750 with 2.5 years of AppleCare+ left. That m2 pro will easily get me to the M6 and I’ll have no regrets about missing the M3/M4/M5 because I’ll be using the machine bs griping about my i3 intel iMac that it replaced that I got 10 years out of. I’m now doing a few things that require more power but the M2 pro will handle the load for another 2-4 years.

How the f*ck did you get it for that price? That is completely impossible sadly here in Europe. Official refurb with those specs would cost €2000 and even the second hand market here would be €1700 minimum for a machine like that 🫣

 

[teh_hunterer]

Of course that is the kind of place scr*wed wannabe Studio buyers often end up at; I did. But the point is we want to build/buy a modern Studio, not some substitute box with less ports, etc.

My M2 MBP is a spectacular box; its only flaw is that it is not the Studio that I wanted to buy.

I think you're ultimately a victim of the 3nm silicon issues. My guess is Apple was never going to make an M3 Ultra due to the low yields and high cost of the process that the M3 line was built on. Apple were going to make exactly as few high end M3 chips as they could reasonably limit it to, and shift everything to the M4 as soon as they could.

Because an M3 based Studio would necessitate them making an M3 Ultra, it meant they weren't going to make one at all - even though it seems like you would have been fine with an M3 Max Studio.

It sucks, but I can see why it happened.

 

[bluedoggiant]

Mac Studio good choice

 

[Harry Haller]

I think you're ultimately a victim of the 3nm silicon issues. My guess is Apple was never going to make an M3 Ultra due to the low yields and high cost of the process that the M3 line was built on. Apple were going to make exactly as few high end M3 chips as they could reasonably limit it to, and shift everything to the M4 as soon as they could.

Because an M3 based Studio would necessitate them making an M3 Ultra, it meant they weren't going to make one at all - even though it seems like you would have been fine with an M3 Max Studio.

It sucks, but I can see why it happened.

Another reason is the unpatchable M3 vulnerability.

 

[coachgq]

How the f*ck did you get it for that price? That is completely impossible sadly here in Europe. Official refurb with those specs would cost €2000 and even the second hand market here would be €1700 minimum for a machine like that 🫣

Swappa.com my friend.

 

[LFO8]

Swappa.com my friend.

Are second hand prices usually cheaper overall there ..or? Because I’m looking at it and it seems you’d still have to be fairly lucky to get a setup you got for the price you got it for.

 

[Brien]

I mean laptops overtook desktops in general long ago and I think COV19 + the continued rise of cloud computing became an extinction level event with a long tail with effects still being felt for desktops on the corp side at least.

I’m a software engineer and I dont need the absolute beefiest machine possible at my desk because my truly heavy lifting is either done on on premise systems in our dc or on aws anyway, and a laptop means I can work anywhere and dock to bigger screens/keyboards/etc as needed. Now to be fair I worked like that long before COV19, but that pattern has just become more common, and even easier to implement for folks that dont *have* heavy lifting.

Laptops are powerful enough now for most work, and it’s easier and cheaper for most folks to have a portable/stowable work machine

There’s still plenty of market for desktops, but it’s getting smaller and to some extent more boutique

I Went from a MBP to a Mac mini and most of the time I am glad I made the choice I did, but I do miss being able to work from the bedroom or back yard.

Likewise, at work we went to laptop-only issuance for employees as many like to work from home, take meetings at local coffee ships, etc.

 

[TheWraith]

And I’m sure that for the tiny minority that requires something larger than 24”

I like a screen that’s 27, or better yet 30 or 32. I don’t know where “requires” came into it.