NVMe with ST-NGFF2013-C; Vega Internal GPU; Mac Pro 2013 (6,1)

[CodeJingle]

The internal graphics cards will keep running if the bandwidth is cut in half. Two graphics cards each running on PCIe 3.0 x 8 lanes is a common thing. Knowing the pinout serves other purposes besides wanting to upgrade the graphics. I could simply disconnect half the lanes from each card and instead use those extra 16 lanes to drive 4 NVMe hard drives in RAID0, each 2 TB drive running at the full bandwidth of PCIE 3.0 x 4. I could get a single logical 8 TB drive with speeds up to 12 gigabytes per second. It opens up the possibilities.

 

[MarkJames68]

The internal graphics cards will keep running if the bandwidth is cut in half. Two graphics cards each running on PCIe 3.0 x 8 lanes is a common thing. Knowing the pinout serves other purposes besides wanting to upgrade the graphics. I could simply disconnect half the lanes from each card and instead use those extra 16 lanes to drive 4 NVMe hard drives in RAID0, each 2 TB drive running at the full bandwidth of PCIE 3.0 x 4. I could get a single logical 8 TB drive with speeds up to 12 gigabytes per second. It opens up the possibilities.

Essentially you’d be creating a PCIe expansion chassis.
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I

I saw a performance benmark between a cooled and non cooled Samsung 951
and the performance difference was pretty big.
The cooled one had stellar performance ... the non cooled permance went up and down in spikes.

The good news is that the 960 Pro has made major improvements in thermal throttling. For activities that would consistently load the disk (sequential reads and writes) it never severely throttles.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...s-950-Pro-Performance-Thermal-Throttling-868/

 

[AidenShaw]

I think this is the thread you remember:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ing-for-nmp-proof-is-in-the-firmware.1876181/

LOL - I had the first reply to that:

 

[saulinpa]

I'm sure someone knows how to boot a Mac Pro 2013 so that it works with only one of the graphics cards. Though the hard drive is embedded in one of the cards which makes it tricky. I assume the two GPUs must be replaced simultaneously and the replacement also have to be workstation class.

So one thread says that the flashed 7970 will give boot screens. So why not try to boot a nMP with the two internal GPUs removed? Use the eGPU and a USB or TB boot drive.

 

[MarkJames68]

Easiest way would be to remove the graphics card connector one at a time. Could then test if only A boots, Only B boots and if only the eGPU boots.

 

[ActionableMango]

LOL - I had the first reply to that:

I can't tell if you were being snarky or serious in that old post, but either way 2018 is looking like a good prediction on your part.

 

[AidenShaw]

I can't tell if you were being snarky or serious in that old post, but either way 2018 is looking like a good prediction on your part.

Partly snarky, and partly just adding the delta for the previous cMP bumps to the nearly 2014 launch of the MP6,1.

(The 2010 and 2012 were minor updates to the 2009. HP/Dell/* regularly fold in newer CPUs and chipsets without a brass band to herald a brand new machine.)

Still amused, though, that a snarky comment in 2015 turns out be possibly too optimistic.

 

[jclmavg]

Guys, any word on stability running with the nvme ssd?

I'm waiting for parts still. Is there an easy way to clone my 256gb apple ssd to the new Samsung one?

 

[MarkJames68]

Just installed mine now, getting similar benchmarks - around 1420 read, 1320 write. 5 minute install and no filing or other adjustments required. If this holds up I don’t know why anyone would spring for an OWC drive. That little $13 adapter is a game changer.

Given that the Mac recognized and formatted the drive perfectly I don’t expect any issues.

I use CCC to image my drive to an external USB HDD, so I recommend that route. Back up your old drive, swap them out and restore from the HDD. Otherwise you can pay $100 for a USB case for the old Mac SSD.

 

[mikeboss]

Is there an easy way to clone my 256gb apple ssd to the new Samsung one?

AFAIK there's only one drive enclosure available for the Apple PCIe SSDs: OWC Envoy Pro (part# MAU3ENPRPCI).

 

[jclmavg]

AFAIK there's only one drive enclosure available for the Apple PCIe SSDs: OWC Envoy Pro (part# MAU3ENPRPCI).

Assumed as much, ordered it from OWC (who had a discount on it too). At least I can put that drive to good use.

 

[MarkJames68]

I’m going to try this adapter and repurpose my 512GB in a Windows PC (non bootable).

https://www.amazon.com/QNINE-Adapte...-5&keywords=apple+ssd+adapter#customerReviews

 

[krakman]

AFAIK there's only one drive enclosure available for the Apple PCIe SSDs: OWC Envoy Pro (part# MAU3ENPRPCI).

shame its not thunderbolt!

 

[MarkJames68]

shame its not thunderbolt!

Agree, it’s extremely lame. For probably $50 more it could be, after all the manufacturing cost for that adapter is no more than around $15 or so.

 

[RyanXM]

According to the official Apple Service Manual for the Mac Pro (Late 2013), the minimum configuration needed for the MacPro6,1 to boot is as follows:

- Power Supply
- One RAM DIMM
- Graphics Board B
- I/O Board
- AC Inlet
- CPU Riser Card
- Main Logic Board.

 

[mikeboss]

According to the official Apple Service Manual for the Mac Pro (Late 2013), ...

soon it'll be four years since I started looking for the service manual of this machine. how can one get ahold of it???

 

[jclmavg]

Just installed mine now, getting similar benchmarks - around 1420 read, 1320 write. 5 minute install and no filing or other adjustments required. If this holds up I don’t know why anyone would spring for an OWC drive. That little $13 adapter is a game changer.

Which NVME SSD did you purchase and which adapter are you using?

 

[CodeJingle]

I don’t know why anyone would spring for an OWC drive.

Right it is $300 more for the OWC 2 TB drive and I suspect the OWC drive is slower.

Back up your old drive, swap them out and restore from the HDD. Otherwise you can pay $100 for a USB case for the old Mac SSD.

APFS is Apple's new drive format and it is designed with fast SDD in mind. I would recommend a fresh partition and a fresh install of the latest version of macOS High Sierra. Import your old stuff manually or re-install your apps. Yeah get the external enclosure for the old drive.

Boot from the old drive in the external enclosure with your new drive installed inside the Mac Pro and install macOS on the new drive from there. It is the hard way but at least that is my preference.
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According to the official Apple Service Manual for the Mac Pro (Late 2013)

I didn't know we were quoting from the documentation that is supposed to be restricted access. It might be a better idea to use subtlety when referencing official Apple service manuals or schematics to not get on Apple's naughty list. It doesn't seem like something an Apple employee would do.

 

[saulinpa]

Some of the SSD heatsinks appear to be fairly thick with the fins. Any issues interfering with the nMP's cover?

 

[CodeJingle]

Some of the SSD heatsinks appear to be fairly thick with the fins. Any issues interfering with the nMP's cover?

I have this heatsink installed it covers both sides of the drive it does not interfere with anything on either side of it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073RHHYCM

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Agree, it’s extremely lame. For probably $50 more it could be, after all the manufacturing cost for that adapter is no more than around $15 or so.

Thunderbolt is like PCIe, a proprietary closed standard that you have to pay to join a SIG before they will let you view the specifications for the standard. USB 3 is an open standard. You can develop a USB 3 product without paying a premium. Choosing USB over Thunderbolt has little to do with the cost per board to manufacture.

 

[MarkJames68]

Which NVME SSD did you purchase and which adapter are you using?

960 Pro 2TB along with the adapter OP linked to earlier.
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I have this heatsink installed it covers both sides of the drive it does not interfere with anything on either side of it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073RHHYCM

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Thunderbolt is like PCIe, a proprietary closed standard that you have to pay to join a SIG before they will let you view the specifications for the standard. USB 3 is an open standard. You can develop a USB 3 product without paying a premium. Choosing USB over Thunderbolt has little to do with the cost per board to manufacture.

Agreed, but they must be seeking huge margins because TB is maybe a $50 premium.

BTW, CCC 6 will let you clone from an HFS drive to an APFS drive. Cloned to a HDD, swapped SSDs, booted High Sierra from the HDD, initialized the new SSD and then cloned back.

 

[CodeJingle]

CCC 6 will let you clone from an HFS drive to an APFS drive.

That is great to know thanks!
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Agreed, but they must be seeking huge margins because TB is maybe a $50 premium.

The larger margins are to recover the huge R&D cost especially for selling a product to a smaller market.

 

[jclmavg]

960 Pro 2TB along with the adapter OP linked to earlier.

Any specific reasons you guys are all getting the 960 pro, other than just size?

 

[MarkJames68]

Any specific reasons you guys are all getting the 960 pro, other than just size?

Size, speed, warranty. I got it because CodeJingle got it working

I would think just about any NVMe drive should work, but this got me what I wanted which was a lot of fast primary storage. if you only need 1TB the EVO is nearly as good for a lot cheaper.

 

[CodeJingle]

Any specific reasons you guys are all getting the 960 pro, other than just size?

For me no only the size. I said earlier in the thread I had 1.5 TB internal storage in my 2010 MacBook Pro I've been waiting for four years to go back to a larger size, 2 TB is only marginally better. I already had 1 TB in my Mac Pro before the upgrade. $1,200 USD is a lot of money but I literally had no choice here.
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Guys, any word on stability running with the nvme ssd?

It is working great since Friday. I am currently running macOS High Sierra 10.13.2 beta 3.

It occasionally takes longer to do a cold boot if the machine has been unplugged like for transport. You won't notice if you keep it plugged in.
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Size, speed, warranty. I got it because CodeJingle got it working

Thanks!