NVMe with ST-NGFF2013-C; Vega Internal GPU; Mac Pro 2013 (6,1)

[mikeboss]

On this thread collectively we only know the PC Parts 239 adapter as working, first claimed by me and verified by MarkJames68. You were fine making the assumption earlier to buy a different adapter based on a known brand and international availability, before anyone verified the PC Parts 239 connector. But it seems kind of loopy to give up now when we know a specific adapter is working. You didn't ask the thread if someone from America would help you out. If I can acquire another one I'll be glad to ship you one of these adapters. I'm not going to do this for everyone but not a big deal to do it for one or two people.

maybe the Mac Pro just doesn't like the 960 EVO, who knows..? I don't need more space, the Mac Pro is only my lab/testing machine. I just wanted to try and see if it would be possible to use standard PC-industry SSDs. I have enough SSDs in my shop (SSUBXs and SAMSUNGs in Thundebolt cases). thank you very much for your kind offer though! much appreciated.
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Ok, weird then. What's your bootrom version? Mine is MP61.0120.B00. Is that the proper one, CodeJingle?

yes, this is the latest version available from Apple and that's what my Mac Pro shows in the system profiler. otherwise the machine wouldn't boot from APFS (which it does). the SSD also didn't show up when using "diskutil list" in the terminal.

 

[CodeJingle]

maybe the Mac Pro just doesn't like the 960 EVO, who knows..?

Please don't play that card. There are too many unknowns here. You don't even know if a 960 Pro will work with your adapter which is what we already know works with the PC Parts 239 adapter. I could buy an adapter, test it first, shipping you an adapter that is guaranteed to work with the 960 Pro, then you have reduced the unknowns to the point that you know the failure is on Apple's side if at that point the adapter I send you does not work with the regular 960 EVO. The 960 EVO and 960 Pro use the same interface for communication the only difference might be the speed of the memory is slightly slower. I already contacted the amazon seller if they are getting more adapters in stock soon (it is currently out of stock).

 

[mikeboss]

I tested the SAMSUNG 960 EVO / Sintech adapter in a MacBook Pro (Retina, Early 2015) and much to my surprise it worked. after closer inspection I recognized some differences between the SSD connector in the MacBook and the one in the Mac Pro. there's some additional shielding on the connector in the Mac Pro and it seems that this creates short-circuits. I then applied some kapton-tape to the adapter and now the Mac Pro runs just fine with the 960 EVO. fun fact: TRIM was enabled right out of the box (macOS High Sierra 10.13.1 fresh install) even though it's a non-Apple SSD.

the red outlined area needs some insulation ->

 

[RyanXM]

there's some additional shielding on the connector in the Mac Pro and it seems that this creates short-circuits. I then applied some kapton-tape to the adapter and now the Mac Pro runs just fine with the 960 EVO.

the red outlined area needs some insulation ->
View attachment 737436

I would imagine some clear nail polish would work as well...you could also get some heat shrink tubing and do that as well. Kapton tape is expensive, but I sure do love using it in high heat environments.

 

[CodeJingle]

I then applied some kapton-tape to the adapter and now the Mac Pro runs just fine with the 960 EVO

Sweet! Not surprising since the adapter I am using also required some manual adjustments before it worked properly.

I've figured out the organization of the Mac Pro 2013 xeon processor connectors. I blew up a photo of the underside of the processor to do a write-in but there is only enough room for the connector id I have to blow up the printout even more to fit the functional name of the pin. I'll upload photos once I am done. Still waiting on parts before taking my Mac Pro apart.

 

[MarkJames68]

On this thread collectively we only know the PC Parts 239 adapter as working, first claimed by me and verified by MarkJames68. You were fine making the assumption earlier to buy a different adapter based on a known brand and international availability, before anyone verified the PC Parts 239 connector. But it seems kind of loopy to give up now when we know a specific adapter is working. You didn't ask the thread if someone from America would help you out. If I can acquire another one I'll be glad to ship you one of these adapters. I'm not going to do this for everyone but not a big deal to do it for one or two people.

Unless there is a difference between the Pro and EVO. There definitely shouldn’t be, but it’s a variable.

Also, and I know this is dumb, but are you sure it’s socketed properly? Not into the adapter and then the SSD and adapter into the nMP?

** edit - saw your response about needing to apply tape. Glad it’s working now. Ironically I had to make zero changes to mine. **

 

[CodeJingle]

So two adapters have been verified one from PC Parts 239 and one from Sintech. I got a reply from the Amazon seller looks like the adapter from PC Parts 239 will be back in stock within 10 days.

 

[User9]

I tested the SAMSUNG 960 EVO / Sintech adapter in a MacBook Pro (Retina, Early 2015) and much to my surprise it worked. after closer inspection I recognized some differences between the SSD connector in the MacBook and the one in the Mac Pro. there's some additional shielding on the connector in the Mac Pro and it seems that this creates short-circuits. I then applied some kapton-tape to the adapter and now the Mac Pro runs just fine with the 960 EVO. fun fact: TRIM was enabled right out of the box (macOS High Sierra 10.13.1 fresh install) even though it's a non-Apple SSD.

the red outlined area needs some insulation ->
View attachment 737436

dn

I tested the SAMSUNG 960 EVO / Sintech adapter in a MacBook Pro (Retina, Early 2015) and much to my surprise it worked. after closer inspection I recognized some differences between the SSD connector in the MacBook and the one in the Mac Pro. there's some additional shielding on the connector in the Mac Pro and it seems that this creates short-circuits. I then applied some kapton-tape to the adapter and now the Mac Pro runs just fine with the 960 EVO. fun fact: TRIM was enabled right out of the box (macOS High Sierra 10.13.1 fresh install) even though it's a non-Apple SSD.

the red outlined area needs some insulation ->
View attachment 737436

Would you mind posting pictures on how you taped yours? Is the shortcircuit above or below the chip? Thanks!

 

[mikeboss]

dn

Would you mind posting pictures on how you taped yours? Is the shortcircuit above or below the chip? Thanks!

just apply the tape over the red outlined area (see picture in post #103 ) this will prevent short-circuits caused by the shielding of the SSD connector in the Mac Pro.

 

[jclmavg]

My Sintech adapter still isn't here, so I found a generic one which looks similar to the one in the picture from Mikeboss and ordered it. Received it today. Taped the connections with some cheap insulation tape, inserted the EVO and it was recognised instantly by the Mac Pro. Initialised it and put a copy back of my boot drive using CCC. Working fine so far. Still need to put a heatsink on the EVO, will do that this weekend.

Question: Does the label on the samsung ssd come of easily, before I attach the heat sink? Or will it need cleaning?

 

[CodeJingle]

Does the label on the samsung ssd come of easily, before I attach the heat sink? Or will it need cleaning?

The labels are also made to transfer heat though I did remove them anyway and it was easy. I didn't notice any residue. I still used a little alcohol and scrub brush before attaching the thermal pad and heatsink.

 

[MarkJames68]

The labels are also made to transfer heat though I did remove them anyway and it was easy. I didn't notice any residue. I still used a little alcohol and scrub brush before attaching the thermal pad and heatsink.

Correct, the new “label” is a simple heat sink. I just applied the other over it, as I don’t need CPU-like precision, just decent heat transfer.

 

[CodeJingle]

Like the Vega architecture, today's fastest processors have the memory controller integrated into the same package with the processor. I expect the server of the far future will be built-to-order where the CPU, GPU, and memory, maybe even the hard drive, are all in a single package. Not to protect against reverse-engineering, not even to make more money, but simply because if everything is packed together it will run faster. My peanut gallery feedback anyway. One more modular Mac Pro in ~2018 before then would be nice though. If Apple wants to tackle the engineering problem of how to maintain modularity on their server end without sacrificing response time or throughput I'm sure it would be appreciated.

 

[IBICO]

My Sintech adapter still isn't here, so I found a generic one which looks similar to the one in the picture from Mikeboss and ordered it. Received it today. Taped the connections with some cheap insulation tape, inserted the EVO and it was recognised instantly by the Mac Pro. Initialised it and put a copy back of my boot drive using CCC. Working fine so far. Still need to put a heatsink on the EVO, will do that this weekend.

Question: Does the label on the samsung ssd come of easily, before I attach the heat sink? Or will it need cleaning?

What adapter did you get and where?

 

[CodeJingle]

The PC Parts 239 adapter (aka sweet potato) has an estimated date for back in stock of Nov 27, you can order now. It has been verified as compatible though it might only be shipping to the US. I bought six, one to take apart and study, five to ship to people outside the US, though I would prefer not to ship to a country that has an enforced high import tax rate (for example Brazil). I expect to receive the adapters Nov 30. Update: All 5 are reserved none left thanks!

http://www.pcparts239.com/?pid=123383677

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LXUH921

 

[CodeJingle]

Successive blowups of the CPU pins. The largest one is big enough to fit both IDs on each pin (roughly 45" by 46") and is flipped on the horizontal to match the socket ordering of the pins. The smallest is 1 page, middle is 9 pages, largest is 36 pages.

 

[IBICO]

Anyone know how to trick the mac pro to think the cover is on?

 

[CodeJingle]

Anyone know how to trick the mac pro to think the cover is on?

you can use a magnet held in a certain area to trip a switch to bypass this safety feature

 

[rw3]

Anyone know how to trick the mac pro to think the cover is on?

Place a magnet an inch to the right of the power button.

It must remain there for the system to remain powered on.

 

[CodeJingle]

I'm skeptical because I've dealt with many cases of the BIOS rejecting devices simply because they aren't on the "white list" of supported devices.

Ideally, the iMac Pro will be released, and then sometime later Apple starts selling replacement parts, then I would be using two 1st party iMac Pro Vega cards in the Mac Pro 2013 (or at least attempt to). Using 3rd party Vega cards is more of a temporary solution. I can see in that regard; it is in likeness to a Hackintoshian effort.

The iMac Pro high-end configuration "Configurable to Radeon Pro Vega 64 graphics processor with 16GB of HBM2 memory" is equivalent to the Vega Frontier Edition. The card is already expensive. Hopefully, Apple's markup on the iMac Pro replacement card is not too high.

 

[saulinpa]

Ideally, the iMac Pro will be released, and then sometime later Apple starts selling replacement parts, then I would be using two 1st party iMac Pro Vega cards in the Mac Pro 2013 (or at least attempt to). Using 3rd party Vega cards is more of a temporary solution. I can see in that regard; it is in likeness to a Hackintoshian effort.

Why not just buy an iMac Pro, remove the LCD screen, and mount it in a cMP chassis?

 

[CodeJingle]

Why not just buy an iMac Pro, remove the LCD screen, and mount it in a cMP chassis?

Current rumors are that the iMac Pro uses an A10 chip to secure the system. The A10 chip may be auditing. You could muck with the physical system, not just the software, and the A10 would refuse to allow the Xeon to launch macOS.

Also, an ARM and an Intel chip sound like quadratic effort compared to just one. If my goal is exposing the PCIe lanes for use with PCIe hardware of my choosing, then the Mac Pro 2013 is probably slightly better suited than the iMac Pro. Also, I already own the Mac Pro 2013, and it would cost less to buy two Vega cards than to buy an iMac Pro.

 

[CodeJingle]

Has anyone attempted to install a Xeon E5-4600 v2 series processor in a Mac Pro 2013 (for example E5-4627 v2)?

E5-4600 v2 seems to be in the same family as the E5-2600 v2, they are both lumped together in the Intel documentation. They are both the same flavor of Xeon E5 v2 and both use the same socket 2011-0 and have the same pinouts.

Unfortunately I can't find any documentation of someone who has tried it.

 

[mikeboss]

AFAIK nobody has tried one of these CPUs. they're all from the same "Ivy Bridge EP" family. the E5-46xx v2 were all released Q1/14 so they might need different microcode-updates...

 

[MarioModano]

The PC Parts 239 adapter (aka sweet potato) has an estimated date for back in stock of Nov 27, you can order now. It has been verified as compatible though it might only be shipping to the US. I bought six, one to take apart and study, five to ship to people outside the US, though I would prefer not to ship to a country that has an enforced high import tax rate (for example Brazil). I expect to receive the adapters Nov 30. Update: I've had four people ask already so that means one is left.

http://www.pcparts239.com/?pid=123383677

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LXUH921

Hi Codejingle, would you send it to belgium?