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That we don't have a bunch of young people who find working in a factory in their list of fulfilling occupations.

Because they don’t know what they’re missing, most people don’t.

They don’t know what it’s like having union protection, higher wages, decent benefits - entire generations have grown up never really knowing factory work in the United States. How can workers be missing something they’ve never had? They don’t know how much better their jobs could be…which is intentional of course.
 
Only tangentially related, but it occurred to me that Apple TV+ cancelling Shantaram could be related to individuals in India feeling it shows the country in a poor light.
I never heard about the series until you brought it up.

Cancellation may be related to poor marketing.
 
And no one would want to pay th price Apple would have to charge to do that. Once iPhones can be assembled almost 100%, from chip to box, via automated assembly we may see more US manufacturing as labor costs would be a tiny fraction of the cost of goods.

But likely not.

Look at nails. The short pointed pieces of wire that are pounded into wood. Yeah, those things.

A 'nail machine' needs two things: A spool of wire, and someone (something) to replace empty spools with full ones and feed wire into the system. I would seriously imagine that someone could literally train a chimpanzee to do that.

It's a machine, a 'box' at its basic level that converts wire at one end into nails at the other.

And it's cheaper to do that in China?

What? How? It's basically automated. Couldn't hey could ship in Chinese wire to where ever they wanted to make them. It can't be that much more than shipping the stamped nails in from China. The companies selling nails could give jobs to a multitude of high school kids to swap spools and push a button if they moved production here.

I just don't get it...

Machining iPhone chassis has to be really automated too. Is it the heat? (Anyone thinking of Disclosure at this point?) *shrug*

Aren't chip fab machines pretty much the same? Sure someone has to cut the 'pigs' into wafers, and treat them, but they are fedinto the machine and out come chip populated wafers to be diamond sawed and placed in their enclosures.
 
I grew up in one of those households. They still exist, but mainly in skilled trades.

NAFTA/GATT may have accelerated the move away, but it was inevitable. When labor is a significant percentage of the cost, automation or low labor cost locations are the result; even within a country. It drove manufacturing out of the midwest to the south in the US. India is simply the next stop on the migration. India will eventually get its quality to the needed levels; once they address the issues causing them. It takes time to change the mindset and build a labor pool that has the needed skills. As that happens, India will be more competitive.

That's not to say a high labor cost area can't be competitive. The US is the largest manufacturer of BMWs and exports tehm worldwide; but you have an automated factory where the skill set to work there is different.

Tariffs are a tax on goods, enabling uncompetitive industries to stay in business at the expense of the consumer. It also drives out of business companies that depend on tariffed goods to make their products as cost of domestic or import versions go up.

The consumer is at the heart of this, if you look at buying habits. Sperry still hand makes shoes in the US. The are a great product but I doubt they can sell enough at $300+ to stay in business, so we get cheaper imported versions.
We could debate this for hours. We probably both have from time to time. I can debate using your point of view easily, it’s the standard Bschool spiel. But you’re wrong. Tariffs work, for the working class, for intelligent people who are, on the ground, and actually make things. Tariffs raise their real wages. Then they can buy real things, made well by other tariff protected workers, and $300 isn’t that much any more. Think about it for a while, from the perspective of the worker, not the corporate profit and competitiveness standpoint. Henry Ford figured this out over a hundred years ago.
 
Thanks for the shout-out, but I don't agree with your assessment of an average person or the Rihanna non-sequitur.

The problem is not Rihanna or liberal arts degrees. The problem is (1) college costs too much, but even if the cost was somehow brought down, (2) we don't have enough capacity in the colleges, but even if the cost was reasonable and we had the capacity, (3) our public education system is failing to set students up for success in college. All of these issues, at the end of the day, come down to funding and priorities.

As to 1 - US in-state tuition is about 2x the average public college tuition in Canada and Europe, and 4x the average public college tuition in China.
As to 2 - The US has about 15m public college undergrad seats total, which is enough to serve 4.5% of the population. I think we need to increase this to keep up with China.
As to 3 - I don't have hard and fast data for this, but it's concerning that engineering is one of the less popular majors. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37 Anecdotally, I think the issue is we make it out to be this intimidating thing where only super nerds that got straight As in AP-level math and science can succeed. But that shouldn't be true.

You don't need to know how a pencil is made to be smart. Being a Rihanna fan and being a smart manufacturing engineer are not mutually exclusive.
I think both of you make good points, however. They two perspectives do not need to be mutually exclusive.
 
LOL not surprised, folks ripping on "cheap crap from china" but have no idea how bad the alternative mfr from india is.
Another misconception would be that China only makes cheap stuff. China actually can make quality products. Problem is, Americans overwhelmingly preferred the cheap stuff, so that's what they ended up making instead.
 
We could debate this for hours. We probably both have from time to time. I can debate using your point of view easily, it’s the standard Bschool spiel. But you’re wrong. Tariffs work, for the working class, for intelligent people who are, on the ground, and actually make things. Tariffs raise their real wages. Then they can buy real things, made well by other tariff protected workers, and $300 isn’t that much any more. Think about it for a while, from the perspective of the worker, not the corporate profit and competitiveness standpoint. Henry Ford figured this out over a hundred years ago.
You forget that those same tariffs raise the cost of living as well, so any wage gains are basically offset by the rise in prices for the consumer (who is also the worker). Net gain of zero isn't really helping the worker/consumer, and businesses will indeed get tired of playing the game and paying arbitrary tariffs when they can do it cheaper elsewhere and sell to consumers at lower prices, which consumers will do, because for most of the middle class price is still a major decision making factor.
 
Looks people posting here doesn't have a clue to manufacturing process it takes time to setup manufacturing facilities and tune them to perfection.
 
This is a really disrespectful take on the term "slavery" and the hundreds of millions that endured it in the USA and billions who experienced it historically worldwide.

Most iPhone factories are owned by Taiwanese and every worker there is under a legal working contract which contains the provision to walk away at any point. The Chinese government is in no way forcing Chinese citizens to work producing iPhones.
Then why the suicide prevention nets, I wonder?
 
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That's a good thing. One of the fundamental goals of global human flourishing should be to have as few people as possible engaged in the minimal amount of mundane, repetitive work. The Chinese millennials don't desire to work in manufacturing either--it's just a better option than rural agricultural work and the various other horribly dangerous, unpleasant work to be found all over China. For example, my wife's family all worked in coal mining and the ones that survived accidents ALL died from black lung before 70.
"Mundane", skilled work is what keeps things going, my friend. I personally like indoor plumbing, good roads, electricity, and not having to wait weeks for shipments to be offloaded from ship to shore. The attitude that we should all seek to avoid such things is why we have such a critical shortage in nearly all of the skilled trades today, and it does not bode well for quality of life in the future if we fail to remedy that shortage. Skilled trades are often good paying jobs that with a little effort and consistency become very good paying jobs (tower crane operators in the United States make just under $95k/year on *average* and up to nearly $150k/year). That's a higher starting wage than most careers requiring a 4 year degree, with much less debt and a quicker path to raises and promotions. You do the math.

Plumbers make insane amounts of money relative to what they do. No college degree needed.
Electricians
Road/runway construction and paving (my nephew made in excess of $120k last year and he's 24 years old).
Pretty much any skilled trade, you name it, and you have a lower financial barrier to entry, in general make higher wages to start, and little to no debt to contend with, unlike their 4-6 year college graduate counterparts.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should get rid of universities, either. I'm just saying we've done a disservice to ourselves as a nation and to at least 3 generations of kids by ignoring or worse intentionally guiding kids way from profitable careers simply because we've been sold the "college is the only path to success" con.
 
Government has set you up to work there? What does that mean? Again, these are freely entered work contracts, and employees are free to walk away from them any time. They are not going to starve if they don't put together iPhones--they will just take a job that pays worse. That isn't slavery and it definitely isn't the government of China forcing them into slavery.
There is nothing free about living under the Chinese government. And yes, many are "assigned" to contracts, and only "willingly" sign said contracts or lose their employment entirely. China has a huge available work force, so it's no major inconvenience to industry to blackball the few who have the will to refuse what is being dictated to them, and it's been that way for a long time.

Don't believe me? In the U.S. college students are considered in economic terms an asset to be safeguarded. In China, they'll run them down and crush them with tanks if they dare protest for more freedoms.
 
Because it's tens of thousands of people in their early 20s who work there, most of whom are far from home and going through the same emotional stuff people this age all over the world go through.

Why do 24,000 students at US universities attempt suicide every year? Because they are slaves right?
I moved out of my parents at 16. I worked for my keep, graduated school, and left for the military and relocated across the country by 21. I never felt the need to jump off the roof, even in the military. Your argument sounds more emotional than factual.
 
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LOL that reminded me of this old gem:

That reminds me of the Poo2Loo campaign in India. How to combat open defecation. I don't know if it succeeded, though. Hopefully, it did, and they now are ready to produce iPhones instead. :)
To be fair, there are some cities right in California, Oregon, and Washington that could use such campaigns these days.
 
It just doesn’t make sense. All manufacturing jobs require are training, you literally stand at a station and perform the same function thousands of times per day, all anyone needs to do this is training, the same as India or China or anyplace else.
This part of your comment displays a very large disconnect between your perception of high tech manufacturing and hte reality. It's more than training, you need qualified, educated people from the start. It's not all unskilled, repetitive labor like Henry Ford's assembly lines. Tech manufacturing, especially high tech manufacturing, requires a lot more just as a starting point.
 
At the end of the day, most people don’t really care where their products are made in. This sounds like a very US-specific bugbear, and more political than business-related.
 
But likely not.

Look at nails. The short pointed pieces of wire that are pounded into wood. Yeah, those things.

Actually, nails are a good example. Tariffs raised the price of the raw materials, so. US producer can’t compete with finished nails form mexico that are not subject to tariffs.

We could debate this for hours. We probably both have from time to time. I can debate using your point of view easily, it’s the standard Bschool spiel. But you’re wrong. Tariffs work, for the working class, for intelligent people who are, on the ground, and actually make things. Tariffs raise their real wages. Then they can buy real things, made well by other tariff protected workers, and $300 isn’t that much any more. Think about it for a while, from the perspective of the worker, not the corporate profit and competitiveness standpoint. Henry Ford figured this out over a hundred years ago.

Of course, tariffs raise the price of goods for everyone, resulting in inflation and less spending power as a result. Meanwhile, a few enjoy jobs at the price of many. Of course, they also pay more for tariffed goods - wether they are imported, made of raw materials covered by tariffs, or US made goods that cost more since the only way they are competitive due to tariffs. Tariffs do not raise real wages, as inflation due to increased prices eat into the gains.

Other countries tariff US goods in response, lessening imports and eventually resulting in lost jobs as companies cut back. From the worker perspective, it is a net loss.

Henry Ford realized paying a living wage was a good idea, but he did not rely on tariffs to be competitive.
 
Why does this happen? Isn't manufacturing is a set of processes that will produce the same outcome?

I assumed Apple would say get machine X, do this, do this, and the final product will always be the same!?

Unless Apple is asking for a product and the Indians try their best to mimic it but they just do not have the enough know how leading to bad production units which is an Apple fault for dealing with this specific manufacturer
 
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Why does this happen? Isn't manufacturing is a set of processes that will produce the same outcome?

I assumed Apple would say get machine X, do this, do this, and the final product will always be the same!?

Unless Apple is asking for a product and the Indians try their best to mimic it but they just do not have the enough know how leading to bad production units which is an Apple fault for dealing with this specific manufacturer
It takes months in the best of scenarios to get a high volume production line running. Replicating thousands of steps within tolerances required is an extremely complex logistics problem. This is how it is in all types of manufacturing when things are getting set up.
 
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