Only 50% of iPhone Casings Made in India Meet Apple's Quality Standards

[lovehateapple]

Sounds like a cultural problem. Hopefully the management teams of apple's Indian manufacturers can change / improve the culture.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. It has the potential to be a PR nightmare for the entire country if things don't turn around and apple ultimately pulls all manufacturing out of India.

 

[TSE]

cause indian gov't won't let it, their market is terribly protective, red tape and corruption goes in the same sentence with india for the past 40 years.

as for how long? sure 10-20 years, but should apple bother with that nonsense? apple start making iphone in china as soon as it launched, it sure as hell didn't take china 10-20 years to get it right.

Apple doesn't agree that putting all of it's eggs into a communist, totalitarian state that doesn't believe in private property nor private enterprise and where the likelihood of war is increasing by the decade is a better alternative than diversifying and going through some growing pains to do so.

 

[msackey]

Southeast Asia is a better bet then it’s ultimately robots.

I wonder why Apple hasn't considered Thailand yet, or have they? Thailand has long produced hard drives and other tech products for major US companies.

 

[Graham Caracas]

I have been there and sadly India's only claim to fame is that it's the worlds largest open sewer. No one seems to care and nothing is being done about it.

 

[Analog Kid]

Really bad movies that are hollywood knockoffs, bad music (it all sounds the same), awful engineering.... I've gone to so many Indian festivals in my city (huge indian population where I live) and the dancing is always uncoordinated and just looks really amateur.

I find your complaints here rather humorous...

Isn't what comes out of Hollywood these days mostly just bad Hollywood knockoffs?

What kinds of music do you tend to prefer? When I'm introduced to any new music: classical, hip hop, trance, bebop, the Rolling Stones, it always sounds the same to me because it is more similar to other music in its genre than it is like the music I'm familiar with. My ear focuses on what's different, and it's all kind of different in the same way. As I listen to more of it, I start to become familiar with the structure and sounds and begin to appreciate what makes each piece unique. Of course, when you dismiss everything quickly you don't have to have that first opinion challenged.

And judging dance from a community festival? It's not Rihanna's Superbowl show, it's a community coming together to have fun. I've been to all manner of cultural festivals, and very often they're just local clubs performing for a local audience. Enough to give a taste of the culture and just as much for the enjoyment of the performers as for the audience.

These are all hilarious yardsticks for people and cultures much less manufacturing sites.

"I recommend we don't build our factory in Los Angeles, because I really feel the Star Wars prequels were just phoning it in... And don't get me started on the local ballet recital I went to-- if they're going to build products with the same attention to detail as that 38 year old accountant put into those pirouettes, there's just no point."

 

[Nathan King]

LOL not surprised, folks ripping on "cheap crap from china" but have no idea how bad the alternative mfr from india is.

China is remarkably good at efficiently manufacturing an item to a specification. The problem is that most products are designed to be manufactured at minimum cost. China is more than capable of producing quality items.

 

[lovehateapple]

Thanks for the shout-out, but I don't agree with your assessment of an average person or the Rihanna non-sequitur.

The problem is not Rihanna or liberal arts degrees. The problem is (1) college costs too much, but even if the cost was somehow brought down, (2) we don't have enough capacity in the colleges, but even if the cost was reasonable and we had the capacity, (3) our public education system is failing to set students up for success in college. All of these issues, at the end of the day, come down to funding and priorities.

As to 1 - US in-state tuition is about 2x the average public college tuition in Canada and Europe, and 4x the average public college tuition in China.
As to 2 - The US has about 15m public college undergrad seats total, which is enough to serve 4.5% of the population. I think we need to increase this to keep up with China.
As to 3 - I don't have hard and fast data for this, but it's concerning that engineering is one of the less popular majors. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37 Anecdotally, I think the issue is we make it out to be this intimidating thing where only super nerds that got straight As in AP-level math and science can succeed. But that shouldn't be true.

You don't need to know how a pencil is made to be smart. Being a Rihanna fan and being a smart manufacturing engineer are not mutually exclusive.

I would love it if MR allowed us to have open and honest discussions about matters such as this. Unfortunately I have been temporarily banned in the past from commenting on the site for supposedly being political. It honestly is a shame and I fear things aren't going to improve because people can't have needed and important discourse here simply because it gets uncomfortable for some.

I agree with some of the things you wrote, but it's (highly) likely I disagree with you on what the causes and solutions are. Unfortunately that is all I can say, since I don't want to risk getting permanently banned by the moderators.

 

[Analog Kid]

thats not all of it, my company have had serious problems with their work ethics, there is no sense of urgency when dealing with indian contractors. ofcourse i'm not saying every single indian have the same mentality, but over and large thats what i witnessed. we have since switched to a taiwanese contractor and what took couple of days of turn around was shrunk to next day.

To my point, many people would say the same about Chinese manufacturing-- there are plenty of examples of low quality output. If your goal is to save cost, you're likely chasing the lowest bid and thus find the least capable vendors.

Pareto says there are also a number of vendors capable of high quality as well. As these countries continue to develop expertise we'll see them follow a curve similar to Japan in the 70's and 80's, and even to how Europe viewed the coarse US products once upon a time.

Manufacturing is young in India. It'll mature just as it did in China.

 

[coolfactor]

I'm honestly shocked that it's not lower at this point.

This is the "cost" that companies have to pay which are factored into the final product pricing. Analysts can look all day at the component and labour costs, but what about loss? It's a huge factor.

 

[coolfactor]

Manufacturing is young in India. It'll mature just as it did in China.

There's a major cultural difference. As the article states, there's "no sense of urgency". Indians are often akin to relaxing and taking their time making stuff. Clothing, spices, soybean products, etc. It's all takes time that can't be rushed.

 

[jlc1978]

China is remarkably good at efficiently manufacturing an item to a specification. The problem is that most products are designed to be manufactured at minimum cost. China is more than capable of producing quality items.

There is an old video floating around the features a guy talking about just that - how the Chinese are very good at manufacturing to a price point. Want a $1 electric razor r a $50 high quality one they can make it.

Funny part of video is when he draws a crowd who think he is Ron Popeil.

 

[williedigital]

Interesting that you've decided to use the verb "to purport" when talking about your sources on Apple engineers training people at Indian factories... Especially because "purport" implies it appears as false. Which means these sources can't be trusted at all?

Also, the reason Chinese factories are able to produce Apple's hardware at "inexplicable speeds" is because : modern slavery. It's not because the Chinese workers in those factories are more skilled than the Indians or whatever, it's because the Chinese workers are under tremendous amounts of pressure to produce by an authoritarian regime that will literally kill them if they don't almost kill themselves working incredible long hours. It's not "inexplicable", it's how 80-90% of the modern supply chain works nowadays. But of course, we don't talk about that. Instead, we talk about how "inexplicable" it is... Come on

This is a really disrespectful take on the term "slavery" and the hundreds of millions that endured it in the USA and billions who experienced it historically worldwide.

Most iPhone factories are owned by Taiwanese and every worker there is under a legal working contract which contains the provision to walk away at any point. The Chinese government is in no way forcing Chinese citizens to work producing iPhones.

 

[gagaliya]

no-one can compete against china on mass manufactured goods, not on cost, not on speed, not on labor skillsets, not on supply chain ecosystem, and not on government / political policy support. Much less a democratic slow moving country like india with very little tech manufacturing other than pharmaceutical

It's going to upset people, and i am not saying it's a good thing or bad thing...just the way it is today. Want an example of a brand new unknown product where everyone started on relatively equal footing? just look at what happened to EVs....actually china was way behind to be fair on cars design/manufacturing (santana anyone? ) but look now...

 

[williedigital]

Who's they gonna staff those plants with? Pink-haired smoothie-slurping millennials with a degree in some insane BS?

We don't have enough youth with necessary skills nor desire to work in manufacturing. This problem will require much more time/money to fix.

That's a good thing. One of the fundamental goals of global human flourishing should be to have as few people as possible engaged in the minimal amount of mundane, repetitive work. The Chinese millennials don't desire to work in manufacturing either--it's just a better option than rural agricultural work and the various other horribly dangerous, unpleasant work to be found all over China. For example, my wife's family all worked in coal mining and the ones that survived accidents ALL died from black lung before 70.

 

[TheLinkster]

I'll get by with my 13 mini for a long time, I hope, so I'll deal with that later.

You certainly went all all out, didn't you.

 

[TheLinkster]

That's a bad example. The Tata Nano isn't designed for U.S. market, therefore it doesn't meet U.S. safety standards.

Why didn't you use the Ford EcoSport and Chevy Beat/Spark as examples? Like Apple, they are both American companies who were manufacturing/assembling a product in India for export to the U.S. market.

As for a pure Indian auto brand, there's Mahindra. While they didn't succeed in getting their TR40 truck to the U.S., they do sell the Roxor in the U.S., though that is assembed in the U.S. and not India.

Like others have already said, it will just take a little time for the production issues to get fixed.

The Roxor isn't street legal in the US. Because it doesn't meet crash test standards . . .

 

[jlc1978]

Most iPhone factories are owned by Taiwanese and every worker there is under a legal working contract which contains the provision to walk away at any point. The Chinese government is in no way forcing Chinese citizens to work producing iPhones.

Of course, having a contract and the legal system enforcing it are two different things.

Manufacturing of labor intensive devices is a wy of employing large numbers of people in a bid to avoid unrest. India no doubt will get there; and China move away from it as they become less competitive. Look to Korea and Japan as examples.

 

[deaglecat]

Gotta wonder, how many of the other 50% slip through. That said, I had a (2nd hand) Indian made Iphone XR that worked ok. But I would not pay premium price for Indian manufacturing.

 

[jaceapoc]

This is a really disrespectful take on the term "slavery" and the hundreds of millions that endured it in the USA and billions who experienced it historically worldwide.

Most iPhone factories are owned by Taiwanese and every worker there is under a legal working contract which contains the provision to walk away at any point. The Chinese government is in no way forcing Chinese citizens to work producing iPhones.

You do realise slavery doesn't have a floor, nor a ceiling, right? Slavery can exist under many forms at any period of time. Whether it's in the 1700s by forcing people to work in cotton fields, or in the 2000s by making people who have absolutely no upward mobility whatsoever work 6 days a week for 12 hours a day in a factory for just enough dollars an hour to afford a roof over their head and no real comfort in their off hours... I suggest you educate yourself on how these people live. There's a reason all these top companies are outsourcing production from China, because people are treated as nothing there and they're therefore very cheap to employ. They're stuck in a system that's rigged to make them expendable and cheap. They have NO choice. How is that not exploitation and therefore not a form of slavery? You just can't see it, is all. A contract doesn't mean anything, by the way, if you're forced to do that kind of work because your government has set you up to work there.

It's pretty disrespectful from your part to dismiss the working conditions of these people the way that you did right there. So, by your logic, because these people are not being whipped in fields under scorching heat, they can't be considered as slaves? They should just be 'happy', right? Why are they jumping off roofs? Why are there nets under the windows of these factories? Why are there bars in front of the windows? I could go on and on about how these people definitely are living like slaves, just in a modern world. Imma need you to take a big step back and literally take a good look at yourself so you can reevaluate your values, because this ain't it my guy.

I guarantee you if you worked in those conditions like these people for even just a few hours, you'd definitely call yourself a slave of the modern times. So, just stop dude

 

[karranz]

hahahahahhahahahaahahahahhahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahah
that 50% must be a 30% or something like that, but still 50% is a disaster for a piece of hardware with zero complexity.

 

[lizurd]

This is a really disrespectful take on the term "slavery" and the hundreds of millions that endured it in the USA and billions who experienced it historically worldwide.

Not to take away from your point, but your numbers are wildly inflated (orders of magnitude). I'm not sure what the total historical estimate is, but according to the 1860 U.S. census the number at that time in the USA was approximately 4 million.

 

[Count Blah]

Only tangentially related, but it occurred to me that Apple TV+ cancelling Shantaram could be related to individuals in India feeling it shows the country in a poor light. The show was given the green light well before Covid, and much more than ever, Apple needs the cooperation of governments in India to expand manufacturing efforts in the country.

i couldn’t imagine Apple giving the go ahead today for a similar show that is set against government corruption in China.

Sorry, but Hollywood takes a WIDE berth around Communism.

 

[azpekt]

That's a good thing. One of the fundamental goals of global human flourishing should be to have as few people as possible engaged in the minimal amount of mundane, repetitive work. The Chinese millennials don't desire to work in manufacturing either--it's just a better option than rural agricultural work and the various other horribly dangerous, unpleasant work to be found all over China. For example, my wife's family all worked in coal mining and the ones that survived accidents ALL died from black lung before 70.

What's a "good thing"? Fact that we in US don't have enough educated professionals to staff those plants?

 

[Analog Kid]

There's a major cultural difference. As the article states, there's "no sense of urgency". Indians are often akin to relaxing and taking their time making stuff. Clothing, spices, soybean products, etc. It's all takes time that can't be rushed.

The article's behind a paywall, so I can't read it in context.

It seems to be common to suggest there's a cultural impediment to performing a job well when someone that looks different from the last person doing it takes it on. Culture is real, but people are adaptable.

Production is about process and controls. Once that gets established in India, the parts will be indistinguishable from those made in China, and we can go back to complaining about how all the "good jobs" are going overseas.

 

[williedigital]

A contract doesn't mean anything, by the way, if you're forced to do that kind of work because your government has set you up to work there.

Government has set you up to work there? What does that mean? Again, these are freely entered work contracts, and employees are free to walk away from them any time. They are not going to starve if they don't put together iPhones--they will just take a job that pays worse. That isn't slavery and it definitely isn't the government of China forcing them into slavery.