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Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.
- Thread starter staypuftforums
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OP is absolutely right. This is why Apple offers a $600 personal computer for people with his strong convictions, and sensibilities.
No, why would I expect to be able to use it far beyond the capabilities it had when first sold to me?
Again, that’s just one specific brand of operating system. It’s not a monopoly. That’s not how monopolies work. If that were the case, Microsoft would have a monopoly on Xbox games because they’re the only company that makes the hardware to play Xbox games. Just like Sony is the only company makes the hardware for PlayStation games and Nintendo is the only company that makes the hardware to play Nintendo games. If Nintendo had the only game console in existence and there was no competition then you might consider a monopoly. If Apple had the only computer operating system then you could consider that monopoly.
Dodge makes the only vehicles with a hemi so I guess that’s a monopoly. We can go on and on about calling things a monopoly just because they have a brand exclusive.
Seems to me you got a deal on a near EOL machine (on eBay no less). Talk about eating your cake and wanting to have it too.
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OP also mentioned using Rufus as a work-around for Windows install requirements. In that case not just use Firefox instead of Safari on an EOL Mac? I believe there are other third-party browser projects that try to incorporate security fixes for low-spec machines as well.
I think what you're asking for is one of these.
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Apple supports Macs 5 years after discontinuation (not release as the OP claimed) with new versions of macOS. And then another 2 years with security updates. So, 8-10 years depending on how long they sell it if you buy on release date.
That would be outrageous if Apple dropped the M1 so soon, in my opinion.
Online banking while using Safari was “far beyond its capabilities” when you first bought it?
You got a lemon, brother. Either that, or it wasn't a genuine Apple product to begin with.
Have they actually stated this officially somewhere, or is this just a summary of past practices?
Which totally ignores the fact that people ARE voting with their wallets obviously, so they already feel they have the information to do so, and the policies meet their requirements. What is laughable is people buy old computers at basement dollar prices, pat themselves on the back for being so smart, and THEN complain about the policies!
As for your shame on Apple stance for not providing service and contracts like an enterprise solution company, they also don’t charge enterprise prices.
If you read between the lines, it appears that the M series is the baseline change that will be supported longer than their Intel predecessors.
This was in an interview back when the M series was launched where one of the executives was discussing the fact that people are holding on to iPhones and iPads longer and longer and then the topic of the Mac came up. Wish I could find that interview again.
I would be shocked if the M1 series is dropped in MacOS anytime soon. Shocked and infuriated.
You claimed you own a 2014 Mac Mini that has been in use 24/7 for 11 years.
You then said that online banking through Safari was beyond its capabilities on the day you bought it.
How should I respond to these statements?
The timeframe is laid out here:
Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty - Apple Support
Learn about your options for getting service and parts for Apple devices that are past their warranty period.
Supported products get OS updates. Vintage products just get security updates. I couldn't find any official page that explicitly says that, but it seems to be the policy.
Get Firefox
To be clear, you should be able to buy a Mac anywhere (eBay, refurb store, women in lake handing it out), at any time, get a sale price on it, and continue to use new versions of macOS or Safari on it for decades, am I getting this right?
What does Apple do when they stop selling a machine but, say, a seller on eBay has stock? Send out the hit squad and take those machines back? DMCA the listings? Fire the computers into the sun? Same scenario, but it's a Facebook Marketplace seller, what happens then? Last year, I bought some G3 and G4 vintage Macs for fun. Should I still be getting software updates? Can you help me understand the world you're proposing here?
Furthermore, I'm not sure you quite get how expensive legacy software is and how expensive software engineers are...I'm not an expert, but I've worked at some Bay Area SaaS companies, taken UX classes from Apple designers, from what I've seen, engineers ain't cheap. Moreover, who's going to want to work on that? Imagine applying to work as an engineer at Google when you worked at Apple and telling folks your experience was all in maintaining OSX 10.4. Who on earth would hire that engineer?
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I disagree with you, because you're wrong. And wanting the EU to get involved just shows how ridiculous the precedent is they've set.
Well, that settles it then. Time to move along, folks. GioGiusi has spoken.
Nothing what you wrote there changes anything about what I wrote. I could not care less about the various economic interpretations of monopoly depending on what school of finance you attended/country's legislation because we could be here all day arguing the finer points of legislation and economic schools of thought. I am using it in the broad sense of controlling the market sector it operates in. Apple has absolute control of its sector, Microsoft et al do not, except potentially for consoles as you point out. They can release new APIs for new console hardware iterations, which are no longer backwards compatible if they so choose. Not so easy on Windows as Microsoft needs the goodwill of the business sector, something Apple long abandoned.
Microsoft is beholden to its customer base, Its profits lie in software and services, not hardware. Apple is in the opposite situation. It is much easier for Apple to be ruthless in that respect.
Words have definitions. Just because you say something doesn’t make it correct. Describing Apple as a monopoly is incorrect. Apple does not meet the criteria of a monopoly. This is especially true when it comes to Apple computers. You might make an argument that Apple has monopolistic business practices when it comes to the smart phone market, but not with computers. It’s not about the operating system either. It’s about business practices that Apple does that gets them in trouble.
Just because a company is an exclusive supplier of a certain brand of product doesn’t make them a monopoly.
If you insist on making up your own definitions, then there’s nothing much I can help you with. It’s 2025 so you’re allowed to make believe whatever you want to believe.
I think it should be 12 years. OP's arbitrary suggestion of only 10 years of security updates is planned obsolescence.
I do. What it comes down to is that Apple's support cycle is based on giving many years of support for current (non-discontinued) machines (7.5-8.6 years, on average, depending on when in the product cycle you bought it).
As I mentioned earlier, when you buy a discontinued machine, you're making a choice to get fewer years of support, but at the same time should expect the product to be heavily discounted based, in part, on that.
That's why buying discontinued machines is a good deal, especially if they're still under AC+, and you're smart about shopping around (unless you buy them from the Apple refurb store, where the discount is negligible).
Your're saying you want to get a great deal by buying an older machine, while having years of support close to what Apple now offers for current models. I don't think that's going to happen, since Apple doesn't want to maintain software engineering effort on those older OS's for more time than they do now.
You're right that machines would stay in circulation longer if Apple offered longer support, which would be more green. But costs would also rise (if Apple wanted to maintain its same profitability). I'd expect that discontinued machines would cost more as well since, with more years of support, they would have more value.
You could get more years of support by buying a more recently discontinued machine but, as in much of life, if you want more, you need to pay more.
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I have a Dell Latitude from 2010 currently running Windows 10 for a home karaoke rig. All on-board devices requiring drivers are still running perfectly fine and there are no issues with resolution, internal or external displays, sound, WiFi, ethernet, or any other on-board device on that machine. Windows is fully up to date as of last weekend. The only major issue with that machine is the battery capacity (it's not being used as a portable anyway).
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