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Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.

jakey rolling said:
I have a Dell Latitude from 2010 currently running Windows 10 for a home karaoke rig. All on-board devices requiring drivers are still running perfectly fine and there are no issues with resolution, internal or external displays, sound, WiFi, ethernet, or any other on-board device on that machine. Windows is fully up to date as of last weekend. The only major issue with that machine is the battery capacity (it's not being used as a portable anyway).
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This was my same experience with a 2009 era budget Acer pre-built.
 
brilliantthings said:
I think it should be 12 years. OP's arbitrary suggestion of only 10 years of security updates is planned obsolescence.
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How is 10 years not also planned obsolescence?

Honestly, I'm fine with seven years after discontinuation, as long as that is stated at the time of purchase. The expected lifespan of a desktop or laptop computer is 3-5 years, and 7 allows a bit of a stretch for those with limited needs or maybe the second owner of a device (if the hardware itself lasts that long, which is less likely now with soldered RAM and SSDs). It's not like the machine blows up in a puff of smoke at the 7-year mark. You can certainly use an unsupported OS or install a different OS. It may not be "safe" or "approved" for business use, but it would still be a perfectly good machine for a child to use to learn programming.

Besides, most people don't really want to use decade-old computers, anyway. Technology progresses more slowly than it used to, but a computer from 2015 isn't really usable by the average person for typical tasks. Sure, a nerd/geek/hacker type can find a use for it, but those types also know the risks of running old, unsupported hardware and software and know how to mitigate them.
 
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I've never used a computer for longer than 4 or 5 years, but especially by seven years, I would expect (or at least accept) that technology has advanced enough that my aging machine's days would be numbered and incompatible with modern software.
 
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russell_314 said:
Apple does not meet the criteria of a monopoly.
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In the UK Apple is a monopoly, in the US it is not. See what I said about definitions? A pointless endeavour. All you achieved in your reply was nitpicking for sake of nitpicking. Beyond that, you said nothing of substance. Congrats, I suppose.
 
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wyliej said:
Besides, most people don't really want to use decade-old computers, anyway. Technology progresses more slowly than it used to, but a computer from 2015 isn't really usable by the average person for typical tasks. Sure, a nerd/geek/hacker type can find a use for it, but those types also know the risks of running old, unsupported hardware and software and know how to mitigate them.
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I disagree. I have top spec 2015 MacBook Pro and it is perfectly usable for typical tasks. 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, Intel Core i7 4870HQ, AMD M370X.

It renders webpages just fine, Microsoft Office runs well, 4K streaming is also very smooth, I have edited video recently on this 2015 MacBook Pro.

So a decade old computer is perfectly capable, it won't be as fast as M4 laptop, but surely it will run lots of things.
 
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theorist9 said:
I do. What it comes down to is that Apple's support cycle is based on giving many years of support for current (non-discontinued) machines (7.5-8.6 years, on average, depending on when in the product cycle you bought it).

As I mentioned earlier, when you buy a discontinued machine, you're making a choice to get fewer years of support, but at the same time should expect the product to be heavily discounted based, in part, on that.

That's why buying discontinued machines is a good deal, especially if they're still under AC+, and you're smart about shopping around (unless you buy them from the Apple refurb store, where the discount is negligible).
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Buying a used MacBook is a great way to save. I got a used M1 MacBook Pro for around $500CAD, which runs fine. I think there will be few years of support left.

theorist9 said:
Your're saying you want to get a great deal by buying an older machine, while having years of support close to what Apple now offers for current models. I don't think that's going to happen, since Apple doesn't want to maintain software engineering effort on those older OS's for more time than they do now.
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Apple made a choice to release macOS releases every years, so they can drop hardware support in an annual or bi-annually bases. Therefore, it is Apple's responsibility to provide software support.

I think the whole annual OS releases should be abandoned. Not only Apple just keep pushing features when aren't ready, but also making macOS and iOS so buggy.

I think if Apple were to do bi-annual releases, lots of old hardwares will be supported longer.

theorist9 said:
You're right that machines would stay in circulation longer if Apple offered longer support, which would be more green. But costs would also rise (if Apple wanted to maintain its same profitability). I'd expect that discontinued machines would cost more as well since, with more years of support, they would have more value.

You could get more years of support by buying a more recently discontinued machine but, as in much of life, if you want more, you need to pay more.
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Which is fine.
 
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Aoligei said:
So why aren't you wants Apple support its hardware longer?
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They didn't say they didn't want Apple to support their hardware longer. They're just pointing out that it's ridiculous to buy an Apple product and then suddenly expect Apple to do something they rarely do.

I would LOVE for Apple to increase their OS support on Macs. But if I really want support longevity, I'll buy a Windows machine... because I've done my research and I know what to expect.
 
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weckart said:
Not true on the Dell Workstation. Microsoft has rowed back on that.

pcoutlet.com

Microsoft Dropping the TPM 2.0 Requirement for Windows 11 - PC Outlet

Microsoft has made a significant change to its Windows 11 upgrade policy. The company now allows users to install Windows 11 on systems that do not meet the
pcoutlet.com pcoutlet.com

Having said that, I doubt there will too many rushing to update to Windows 11 unless it is really required for business given how much hate it is getting.

The Trashcan was similarly dumped like the last gen G5 PowerMacs. Two years of security updates after 2019 and see you, sucker.
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That was backtracked. They still insist on TPM 2.0, and a CPU that is on their "specific supported CPU list" - which (for Intel CPUs) only includes 8th gen Core or later. (Plus a *VERY* limited set of 7th gen - specifically 7th gen CPUs that Microsoft shipped in certain Surface devices.)
 
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Tubamajuba said:
They didn't say they didn't want Apple to support their hardware longer. They're just pointing out that it's ridiculous to buy an Apple product and then suddenly expect Apple to do something they rarely do.
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No. I think lots of people buying into Apple's ecosystem preciously because they perceive that Apple provides better and longer software support than competitors.

Apple isn't shy on advertising longevity of software support on their iPhone hardware. People buying MacBook and iPhone believing that they will receive better OS and longer support than competitors.

Tubamajuba said:
I would LOVE for Apple to increase their OS support on Macs. But if I really want support longevity, I'll buy a Windows machine... because I've done my research and I know what to expect.
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We should demand Apple to provide longer software support. Ultimately, it will requires Apple to change their OS release cycle. I think Apple should learn from Microsoft where releasing newer OS slowly and provide semi-yearly feature updates.
 
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Aoligei said:
Ultimately, it will requires Apple to change their OS release cycle. I think Apple should learn from Microsoft where releasing newer OS slowly and provide semi-yearly feature updates.
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Most of Apple's OS releases are feature updates to the OS. The OS is given a new number, but they are not significant overhauls.

If we look at larger overhauls, we had 10.0 (2001), 10.3 (2003), 10.4 (2005), 10.7 (2011), 10.10 (2014), and 11 (2020).

This year might be a larger overhaul, which means Apple is basically on a 5 year release cycle with yearly feature updates.
 
neuropsychguy said:
Most of Apple's OS releases are feature updates to the OS. The OS is given a new number, but they are not significant overhauls.

If we look at larger overhauls, we had 10.0 (2001), 10.3 (2003), 10.4 (2005), 10.7 (2011), 10.10 (2014), and 11 (2020).

This year might be a larger overhaul, which means Apple is basically on a 5 year release cycle with yearly feature updates.
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A lot more change happens under the hood than just the versions you listed there

You left out switching to apfs for example. I’d say that’s pretty major

Eliminating 32 bit for another. Also a pretty big change

Often new code requiring specific instruction sets

There are countless more

Maybe you are thinking of cosmetic changes?
 
Aoligei said:
No. I think lots of people buying into Apple's ecosystem preciously because they perceive that Apple provides better and longer software support than competitors.
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I’ve never been under the impression that Apple provided longer software support, but there’s no question that they provide better support. This is one of the main reasons I buy Apple products. I have a friend that absolutely loves Samsung phones and they are good phones. It’s just their support is not even close to Apple’s. When she has a problem with her phone, I have to force myself not to laugh at all the hoops she has to jump through just to get some basic help. It’s the same thing when I need help with my Dell or Lenovo PC, it’s absolutely terrible. I can’t say every customer experience I’ve had with Apple was positive, but they were all resolved and overall my experience is 100 times better than any other brand.
 
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russell_314 said:
I’ve never been under the impression that Apple provided longer software support, but there’s no question that they provide better support. This is one of the main reasons I buy Apple products. I have a friend that absolutely loves Samsung phones and they are good phones. It’s just their support is not even close to Apple’s. When she has a problem with her phone, I have to force myself not to laugh at all the hoops she has to jump through just to get some basic help. It’s the same thing when I need help with my Dell or Lenovo PC, it’s absolutely terrible. I can’t say every customer experience I’ve had with Apple was positive, but they were all resolved and overall my experience is 100 times better than any other brand.
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I can't tell after sale support for Samsung, but I have had good experience with Google Pixel 7. I just called Google when my Pixel 7 has screen issues, they asked me to go Mobile Kilink, which is their repair partner. Dropped the phone and get the phone back in the same day.

Maybe I am just lucky, I haven't had lots of need for after sale support. Most of devices that I bought just works without issue.
 
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