MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[joevt]

Would getting the empty internal Accelsior 4M2 and adding 4x970 EVO Plus 2TB yield better performance/ same performance as having them on a PCIe slot each?

I plan to use them as individual drives — no RAID, but I can’t seem to understand clearly the bandwidth limitations of the Accelsior 4M2.

Anyone care to advise?

4M2 is a PCIe x8 card. In a cMP, it will convert the PCIe 3.0 x4 of the M.2 slot to PCIe 2.0 x8 of the cMP slot (slot 1 or slot 2) so you should get near full performance of the 970 EVO Plus if you are not using slot 3 or slot 4.

PCIe 2.0 x8 is slightly faster than PCIe 3.0 x4 so there shouldn't be much of a difference between that and a card that uses PCIe 2.0 x16 for a single M.2 drive. But like tsialex said, an x16 card may be slightly faster.

 

[Romanesco]

OWC card have a x8 PCIe switch, that limits the maximum bandwidth avaliable to around 2900MB/s with a MP5,1. If you not going to use RAID and will not access more than one blade simultaneously, it will not be much of problem.

A 970 EVO+ is a x4 PCIe v3.0 that can achieve around 3200MB/s when reading from the cache, only a card with a x16 PCIe switch can use all the bandwidth of it with a MP5,1.

With a MP7,1, the Accelsior 4M2 x8 PCIe switch is not a problem for one blade, but limits the simultaneous access to anything more than two or for a RAID.

So simply put, it’s a no go if I want the best performance. What’s the best silent x16 for 4 blades to get atm?

 

[tsialex]

So simply put, it’s a no go if I want the best performance. What’s the best silent x16 for 4 blades to get atm?

HighPoint SSD7101A-1 PCB 2.00 was the first one, around November last year, updated for MP7,1. The current version with fan control can totally disable the fan when installed inside a MP7.1.

Sonnet just announced a fan less version of the M.2 4x4 card, with the fan and heatsink shroud removed - the problem is that no reseller have it yet. FUS-SSD-4X4-E3 is the version with fan + heatsink shroud, FUS-SSD-4X4-E3S is the one without fan and heatsink shroud.

Both cards have similar performance, both have the same PCIe switch. Personally, I like the software/firmware, PCB design and the build quality of SSD7101A-1 better. HighPoint constantly updates the drivers, Sonnet not so much.
[automerge]1590687042[/automerge]
Btw, don't forget that Sonnet M.2 4x4 don't officially support double sided blades, you have to mod it yourself to use double sided ones.

HighPoint SSD7101A-1 always supported double sided M.2 blades. This is very important now with 4TB/8TB double sided blades arriving on the market.

 

[joevt]

So simply put, it’s a no go if I want the best performance. What’s the best silent x16 for 4 blades to get atm?

I don't think you'll notice a difference between the x8 card and an x16 card. Perhaps the price of the x8 card is worth the slight drop in performance? Actually, the Highpoint is only a little bit more expensive...

 

[Romanesco]

HighPoint SSD7101A-1 PCB 2.00 was the first one, around November last year, updated for MP7,1. The current version with fan control can totally disable the fan when installed inside a MP7.1.

Sonnet just announced a fan less version of the M.2 4x4 card, with the fan and heatsink shroud removed - the problem is that no reseller have it yet. FUS-SSD-4X4-E3 is the version with fan + heatsink shroud, FUS-SSD-4X4-E3S is the one without fan and heatsink shroud.

Both cards have similar performance, both have the same PCIe switch. Personally, I like the software/firmware, PCB design and the build quality of SSD7101A-1 better. HighPoint constantly updates the drivers, Sonnet not so much.
[automerge]1590687042[/automerge]
Btw, don't forget that Sonnet M.2 4x4 don't officially support double sided blades, you have to mod it yourself to use double sided ones.

HighPoint SSD7101A-1 always supported double sided M.2 blades. This is very important now with 4TB/8TB double sided blades arriving on the market.

Thank you for your concise response.

One last thing — are all the fanless options whisper quiet? It would be a deal breaker for me if there was any kind of noise coming out of them.

In regard to SSD7101A-1, how does one order the correct model? Is there a naming convention that guarantees I’m ordering the latest?

 

[tsialex]

Thank you for your concise response.

One last thing — are all the fanless options whisper quiet? It would be a deal breaker for me if there was any kind of noise coming out of them.

No fan working, no fan noise.

 

[Krammer002]

Just installed an IOCREST SI-PEX40152 along with one Sabrent 1TB Rocket Nvme PCIe 4.0 M.2 2280 into my MP5.1 currently running OS High Sierra.

Details are:
Quad M.2 NVMe Ports to PCIe 3.0 x16 Bifurcation Riser Controller - Support Non-BiFurcation Motherboard
Switchtec PFX-L 32xG3 Chipset - Supports Non- BiFurcation and Bifurcation Motherboards
Part Number: SI-PEX40152 Brand: IOCrest

• Switchtec PFX-L 32xG3 has a PCIe 3.0 x16 upstream port as well as four PCIe 3.0 x4 downstream ports. The switch is designed primarily for storage devices, enabling installation of four NVMe drives on a single card.
• SI-PEX40152 card uses PFX-L 32xG3 PCIe switches and therefore does not rely on PCIe bifurcation supported by CPU or PCH (i.e., they will work on closed end systems that have limited PCIe bifurcation capabilities) as well as on software RAID technologies supported by the platform.
• Dedicated PCIe 3.0 x16 bus bandwidth fully maximizes NVMe SSDs performance, up to 128 Gbps bandwidth.
• Delivers unprecedented fast transfer speed via intelligently aggregated Dual x16 PCIe 3.0 bus bandwidth

All appears is stable and working fine!

Quick test results

Single blade, no RAID. waiting for more Sabrent blades now...

 

[joevt]

We'll probably eventually see cards with PCIe 4.0 switches (unless there's an issue with the extra heat?). Before that happens, you can probably add PCIe 4.0 slots with a PCIe gen 4 backplane in a PCIe expansion box (I've only tried a gen 3 backplane). Otherwise only AMD motherboards have PCIe 4.0 slots.

Here's one such card:

LQD4500 PCIe AIC SSD FHFL Honeybadger | Liqid, Inc

The Liqid Element LQD4500 FHFL PCIe AIC SSD Honeybadger features high storage capacity and extreme performance for demanding workloads.

www.liqid.com

Liqid to Demonstrate Element LQD4500 PCIe 4.0 x16 SSD: 32 TB At Up to 24 GB/s

www.anandtech.com

Eight M.2 slots and a PCIe 4.0 switch so it beats the Amfeltec six M.2. I wonder if it will work in a cMP? I wonder if it costs more than a 2019 Mac Pro?

 

[Executor]

HighPoint SSD7101A-1 PCB 2.00 was the first one, around November last year, updated for MP7,1. The current version with fan control can totally disable the fan when installed inside a MP7.1.

Sonnet just announced a fan less version of the M.2 4x4 card, with the fan and heatsink shroud removed - the problem is that no reseller have it yet. FUS-SSD-4X4-E3 is the version with fan + heatsink shroud, FUS-SSD-4X4-E3S is the one without fan and heatsink shroud.

Both cards have similar performance, both have the same PCIe switch. Personally, I like the software/firmware, PCB design and the build quality of SSD7101A-1 better. HighPoint constantly updates the drivers, Sonnet not so much.
[automerge]1590687042[/automerge]
Btw, don't forget that Sonnet M.2 4x4 don't officially support double sided blades, you have to mod it yourself to use double sided ones.

HighPoint SSD7101A-1 always supported double sided M.2 blades. This is very important now with 4TB/8TB double sided blades arriving on the market.

Are the Sonnet cards Windows bootable? I know the Highpoint one works as a windows boot drive but I am curious about the Sonnet fanless. Any info you could provide is appreciated.

 

[tsialex]

Are the Sonnet cards Windows bootable? I know the Highpoint one works as a windows boot drive but I am curious about the Sonnet fanless. Any info you could provide is appreciated.

First post, and Sonnet M.2 4x4 manual, has your answer.

Windows and Linux:
Sonnet M.2 4x4 PCIe Card does not support booting in computers running Windows or Linux.

 

[Executor]

First post, and Sonnet M.2 4x4 manual, has your answer.

Thank you. Should’ve read before asking. Makes it easy to choose the Highpoint then.

 

[tsialex]

HighPoint released two new entry level x8 PCIe switched adapters, maximum throughput around 2900~3000MB/s with a MP5,1, SSD7202 and SSD7204.

SSD7202 is half height, has a fan and support just two blades, while SSD7204 is full height, totally fanless and support four M.2 blades:

SSD7202 NVMe RAID AIC | HighPoint Technologies, Inc.

SSD7202 is a low-profile Bootable 2-port M.2 NVMe RAID Controller, no bifurcation, standalone solution, with dedicated PCIe 3.0 x8 ensuring maximum bandwidth.

highpoint-tech.com

SSD7204 NVMe RAID AIC | HighPoint Technologies, Inc.

SSD7204 is a 4-port M.2 NVMe RAID Controller, no bifurcation, standalone solution, with dedicated PCIe 3.0 x8 to deliver up to 14,000MB/s of transfer speed.

highpoint-tech.com

Being both cards x8, it's probably using an entry level PLX PCIe switch. It's a competitor of the OWC Accelsior 4M2 and not a SSD7101A-1/SSD7103 replacement, weird that HighPoint went this way.

Btw, both cards don't support arrays that span between two cards, what HighPoint calls cross-sync and are supported with the big brothers that are x16, like SSD7101A-1/SSD7103.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Internals

Right now Amazon had them both listed at $299.

Lou

 

[HaypurTiryading]

I didn't see but my 480/960GB Corsair MP510 NVMe drives worked out of the box. I will share details.

480GB drive /w Catalina = 1480/1480MB/s with a simple adapter.

 

[cleaverx]

Hello everyone, first time posting here,

I am running 2010 Mac Pro 5.1 , AMD RADEON 7950, (Metal) 32 GB RAM (boot RAM ver 144.0.0.0.0)
4 SATA HD in the bays, one has Mojave on it.

I ordered OWC Accelsior 4M2 (NVMe 4 TB..4 x 1TB SSD installed). I am not sure which way to go.

Option 1:
Clone with CCC (Carbon Copy Cloner) Mojave from my SATA drive to new RAID-0 Accelsior 4M2.
I tested it with 2 of SATA drive in RAID-0 and it boots just fine. It can't be directly installed as fresh install to the RAID,
it has to be cloned, at least I could not find a way around it. Tricky part might be that every time when there is software update that might be an issues. It is no big deal to keep my SATA Mojave drive as back-up and using for updates and then just clone back to Mojave on RAID PCIe drive.
This setup would give me maximum speed since all 4 SSD drives are in the RAID-0.

Option 2:
Remove one of the the SSD drive from the RAID and use it as single drive and use the remaining 3 SSD drives in
RAID-0.
Some loss in performance , but this way I could do fresh install and boot directly to the single drive normally and be able to do upgrades and use TimeMachine if I want it.
I am not sure if I would utilize the OWC Accelsior 4M2 as intended since I will be running Mojave on single drive (slower) versus in RAID-0 (faster).
I do lot of photo editing and some videos. Do I install application and all the photos and videos on RAID-0 and use Mojave single drive simply as operating system? Is there benefit to have applications installed on RAID with falser
read/write speeds? Or I just put everything on single RAID-0 NVMe and deal with the Carbon Copy Cloner for back-ups.

I have used RAID-0 in the past on my Snow Leopard setups with 4 SATA drives and it worked well. Now these new
NVMe SSD's are whole new beasts.

Is anyone here had experience running either of 2 options above I mentioned. Any input would be greatly appreciated,

thank you.

 

[cleaverx]

Just installed OWC Accelsior 4M2 4 TB ( 4 x 1TB SSD blades) in RAID-0.
I cloned Mojave from my SATA drive to Accelsior RAID with Carbon Copy Cloner.
Rebooted and it work. some readings . I am not sure sure if results are OK or not,
but it is quick. OWC advertise max speeds up to 6.000 MB/sec, I am sure this numbers are for newer Mac Pro versions.

 

[jvlfilms]

Those speeds look a little low to be honest especially because one NVMe drive should get you over 1000 MB/s

 

[cleaverx]

Thanks jvlfilms,

I was thinking the same thing that numbers seamed low.

Ooops,

I have the Accelsior in wrong slot 4X instead 16X PCIe. I put it right above Graphic Card. Way different number now. Even faster

2010 Mac Pro 2.8 GHz quad core (single CPU) 32 GB RAM, ATI 7950 (3GB VRAM)

 

[jvlfilms]

There we go! Those speeds seem more like it!

I currently have a PCIE adapter for my 2.5” 250gb SSD that I got a few years back but in 2020, it seems kind of a waste to have there. For roughly the same price, I could get a 1TB NVMe Sabrent Rocket drive for my scratch media and use my 250gb SSD in SATA II as a boot drive.

Would it be easy for me to take that drive off the adapter and pop it in a SATA/DVD bay? That’ll free up the PCIE slot and I could use the full 1 TB as my media scratch.

 

[cleaverx]

SSD is limited to around 600MB /sec. You could move it up to 4X slot since and I don't thing there will be any difference since limitation of SSD compared to NVMe. Even SATA slot would work. I believe SATA 3 is limited to 600mb /sec also.

I would for sure used the empty 16X slot at the bottom for NVMe. NVMe is way faster , for sure you would benefit from the PCIe slot with NVMe.

Go for it.

 

[jvlfilms]

Thanks for the help! Let me rephrase:

I was wondering if there’d be any issue popping out that SSD and putting it in a drive bay in terms of recognizing the OS versus having to reinstall it. I think everything would be okay but I just wanted to double check.

I might also have an open slot right above the GPU but for heat reasons I wanted to leave that open.

 

[cleaverx]

It should makes no difference where your SSD with your OS sits..(the SSD you want to move to SATA slot)
I am not sure how many PCIe 16X slots are in your Mac Pro 4.1, I am assuming two just like in mine that means two bottom ones it will say 16X and 4 more slots at the top marked 4X.
You want to be at the bottom ones marked 16X. If you graphic card is at the bottom then one above it is 16X.
I was able to install my Accelsior above the my ATI 7950vie card. Just barely fit space between them.

 

[kohlson]

I was wondering if there’d be any issue popping out that SSD and putting it in a drive bay in terms of recognizing the OS versus having to reinstall it.

I regularly boot between 3 different images: SATA SSD on an Accelsior (PCIe), NVMe, and SATA 3 SSD in the optical bay.

 

[jvlfilms]

Thanks to you both for responding!

It should makes no difference where your SSD with your OS sits..(the SSD you want to move to SATA slot)
I am not sure how many PCIe 16X slots are in your Mac Pro 4.1, I am assuming two just like in mine that means two bottom ones it will say 16X and 4 more slots at the top marked 4X.
You want to be at the bottom ones marked 16X. If you graphic card is at the bottom then one above it is 16X.
I was able to install my Accelsior above the my ATI 7950vie card. Just barely fit space between them.

Yeah, I currently have an RX 580 in the bottom slot so I’m not sure if I’ll be able to squeeze in a card or not. Regardless, the drive is only for bootup so the SATA will be sufficient enough for my needs

I regularly boot between 3 different images: SATA SSD on an Accelsior (PCIe), NVMe, and SATA 3 SSD in the optical bay.

Thank you! Sounds great, that’s what I’ll most likely be doing unless I can fit a NVMe in one of the slots I have left.

 

[cleaverx]

I am booting between two drives.
One with Accelsior with 4 TB RAID NVMe (main drive I am using)
The second drive is the Mojave on SATA drive that was used to clone Mojave to my Accelsior RAID and also for any Apple software updates using Carbon Copy Cloner.
If there is any update to do I would boot to the SATA Mojave drive, do the the upgrade and then clone back to Accelsior RAID NVMe.