MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[James Murray]

How do you make a card that doesn't work in Windows? If a PC has UEFI and a UEFI NVMe driver, then it should just work. It should work in a Mac if it has new enough UEFI to boot Windows.

I'm just going by what it says in the OP (see the red text):

Sonnet M.2 4x4 PCIe Card FUS-SSD-4X4-E3: Supports four single sided 80mm M.2 blades. Uses x16 PLX PEX8747 switch. Heatsink with a fan over the blades and PCIe switch. Needs a GPU with pre-boot configuration support. Almost to big to fit MP5,1 length wise. Do not buy it if you need to boot Windows from the blades or will upgrade to a PC later; this card can't boot Windows. Sonnet has a support document about what major blades are single and double sided:
https://sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/M2_compatibility.pdf[/quote]

Without a boot screen, you need to be able to set the boot in macOS (use the bless command if Startup Disk preferences panel doesn't have the option). In Windows, the Boot Camp control panel may be useable, otherwise you can use the EasyUEFI app. I think there's a thread somewhere describing how to use Open Core to boot Windows "safely" using UEFI on old Mac. I think there's a thread somewhere describing how to get boot screen with rEFInd or Open Core (I'm not sure which or where - one can chain boot to the other). I haven't tried booting Windows with UEFI since my MacPro3,1 is too old for that - only Linux and macOS will boot properly using EFI on the Mac Pro3,1. I haven't tried getting a boot screen with a non-Mac GPU either.

I'm using a 2009 Mac Pro. It came with a 4,1 logic board but I upgraded the firmware to 5,1. But thanks for the info, I'll try it out when I get my card.

It doesn't have a PCIe switch so you'll only get up to ~ 1500 MB/s. You'll need a cable to connect a SATA NVMe (but you don't have a SATA M.2, so nevermind). They come in various lengths. Some with one or two power connectors:
P22PM-15PF-7P-6IN SATA 22 Pin Male to 7 Pin SATA Cable with 15 Pin SATA Female Power Cable
P22PM-15PF-7P-12IN SATA 22 Pin Male to SATA 7 Pin and 15 Pin Female
P22PM-15PF-7P-18IN SATA 22 Pin Male to SATA 7 Pin and 15 Pin Female
P22PM-P8-S18IN SATA 22 Pin Male to SATA 7 Pin and 15 Pin Female - 18 and 8 Inches
P22PM-15PF-7P-1M SATA 22 Pin Male to SATA 7 Pin and 15 Pin Female 1 Meter
P22PM-15-7-S3 SATA 22 Pin Male to SATA III 7 Pin and 15 Pin SATA Female - 12 Inches
P22PM-2X15PF-7P-2IN SATA 22 Pin Male to SATA 7 Pin and 2 X 15 Pin SATA Female Connectors - 2"
P22PM-2X15PF-7P-6IN SATA 22 Pin Male to SATA 7 Pin and 2 X 15 Pin SATA Female Connectors - 6"

Thanks for this. It turns out my order didn't go through properly so it's not coming, I'm reconsidering buying this.

It was kind of a joke because 400 MB/s (4 Gbps) max would be a waste for an NVMe)

External enclosure should be fine for EFI boot (not legacy BIOS boot which is what you usually use to boot Windows on old Macs - where Windows disk needs to be connected to one of the internal drive bays). NVMe requires PCIe.

External SATA (6 Gbps) might be the least expensive way.

No one has made a USB 3.x booter (10 Gbps) for classic Mac Pro yet.

Thunderbolt (22 Gbps PCIe) doesn't work well enough for booting a classic Mac Pro but I guess it's not impossible. It might take as much work as creating a USB 3.x booter.

External PCIe is super expensive (there's a subset of products at B&H Photo - each manufacturer has their own website - I have the Dynapower USA Netstor NA255A 16 lane host (64 Gbps) with PCIe 3.0 switch connected to my MacPro3,1), or you can make your own with a cheap single lane riser (4 Gbps) like the one I linked or you can get 4 lane (16 Gbps) cables at ADT-Link. Only a product with a PCIe 3.0 switch with at least a 8 lane host adapter (32 Gbps) will give full performance from a PCIe 3.0 NVMe device (31.5 Gbps). There exist products with PCIe 4.0 switches - but I haven't seen anyone try that with an old Mac Pro yet - you would need an x16 host adapter (64 Gbps) to get full performance from a PCIe 4.0 NVMe device (63 Gbps) connected to a classic Mac Pro.

(Host bandwidth numbers assume Mac Pro PCIe 2.0 slot or PCIe 2.0 switch)

Thanks. I might just bite the bullet and buy one of the more expensive four slot cards. I'm leaning towards this one because it says it can boot windows:

HighPoint SSD7101A-1: Highpoint 7101A - PCIe 3.0 SSD performance for the cMP. Supports four double side M.2 blades, up to 110mm. Uses PLX PEX8747 switch. Heatsink with a fan over the blades and PCIe switch. This card can boot Windows when using NVMe blades and UEFI install.

Before I buy it I'd like to hear your thoughts though, just in case it won't work in my system. Again I'm using 4 single sided 500 GB Samsung 970 Plus blades in a 2009 Mac Pro with a 5,1 logic board and Mojave installed. My bottom 16x slot is occupied by a Radeon Saphire Pulse graphics card and I don't have a boot screen.

 

[joevt]

I'm just going by what it says in the OP (see the red text):

Sonnet M.2 4x4 PCIe Card FUS-SSD-4X4-E3: Supports four single sided 80mm M.2 blades. Uses x16 PLX PEX8747 switch. Heatsink with a fan over the blades and PCIe switch. Needs a GPU with pre-boot configuration support. Almost to big to fit MP5,1 length wise. Do not buy it if you need to boot Windows from the blades or will upgrade to a PC later; this card can't boot Windows. Sonnet has a support document about what major blades are single and double sided:
https://sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/M2_compatibility.pdf

I see that they don't support booting for Linux/Windows but I don't know why...

I might just bite the bullet and buy one of the more expensive four slot cards. I'm leaning towards this one because it says it can boot windows:

HighPoint SSD7101A-1: Highpoint 7101A - PCIe 3.0 SSD performance for the cMP. Supports four double side M.2 blades, up to 110mm. Uses PLX PEX8747 switch. Heatsink with a fan over the blades and PCIe switch. This card can boot Windows when using NVMe blades and UEFI install.

Before I buy it I'd like to hear your thoughts though, just in case it won't work in my system. Again I'm using 4 single sided 500 GB Samsung 970 Plus blades in a 2009 Mac Pro with a 5,1 logic board and Mojave installed. My bottom 16x slot is occupied by a Radeon Saphire Pulse graphics card and I don't have a boot screen.

Just remember it probably won't boot Windows unless it's in a PC or unless you use EFI on your Mac Pro to boot Windows. I have not used this card so I don't have anything to say for or against it. I think it's a good card.

 

[Chips Stephens]

No way would I install windows uefi , that is known to kill the bois.
I stick with legacy win 10 on the 5,1.
May want to read up on that...

Have not tried windows legacy mode on the high point, smoking fast card and drives that’s for sure.
Just make sure you get the card with the pwm on the fan, version 2.
I have version one, and that fan is ....
Horrible...still working on getting this card cool and quite.
waiting on copper heat sinks from China, and am going to try noctua fans next, I just hate blowers....tried all 3 recommended, I can hear all 3, it the frequency that’s the issue I think.

 

[Executor]

No way would I install windows uefi , that is known to kill the bois.
I stick with legacy win 10 on the 5,1.
May want to read up on that...

Have not tried windows legacy mode on the high point, smoking fast card and drives that’s for sure.
Just make sure you get the card with the pwm on the fan, version 2.
I have version one, and that fan is ....
Horrible...still working on getting this card cool and quite.
waiting on copper heat sinks from China, and am going to try noctua fans next, I just hate blowers....tried all 3 recommended, I can hear all 3, it the frequency that’s the issue I think.

Using OpenCore on the 5,1 will protect your BootRom from getting corrupted with Windows certificates. Just FYI

 

[eksu]

Can anyone speak to the benefits of a 4kn NVMe SSD over 512e other than just Sierra support? Thanks.

 

[James Murray]

No way would I install windows uefi , that is known to kill the bois.
I stick with legacy win 10 on the 5,1.
May want to read up on that...

Have not tried windows legacy mode on the high point, smoking fast card and drives that’s for sure.
Just make sure you get the card with the pwm on the fan, version 2.
I have version one, and that fan is ....
Horrible...still working on getting this card cool and quite.
waiting on copper heat sinks from China, and am going to try noctua fans next, I just hate blowers....tried all 3 recommended, I can hear all 3, it the frequency that’s the issue I think.

I already bought it and installed it. This is the one I got:

HighPoint 4-Port M.2 SSD7101A PCIe Gen3 NVMe RAID Controller for Windows, Mac & Linux Systems.

Unlock the true performance of NVMe SSD's: the SSD7101A-1 is capable of delivering performance over 8X faster than onboard NVMe solutions, & over 40X faster than SATA SSD's. The unique architecture provides dedicated PCIe 3.0 X4 (32GB/s) bandwidth for each M.2 SSD, & unlocks the true performance ...

www.amazon.com

I guess I got the wrong version because it's loud as hell. This is unfortunate because I plan on using this mac for music recording. It seems to quiet down when I'm not using it, but I do plan on using it as my OS drive so I may have to return it if it's constantly that loud.

I'm also worried about it overheating. What heat/fan monitoring software do you guys recommend? I made sure to move the graphics card to the second 16x PCI-E slot, and the Highpoint to the first 16x PCI-E slot so that there is space between them and the graphics card isn't blowing hot air directly onto the highpoint. Unfortunately this means I lose access to one of my 4x PCE-E slots, but the only other PCI-E card I'm considering installing is one that adds USB3/Thunderboard/Firewirewire ports. Can you guys recommend any?


The good news is Finder can read the drives. But it's showing up as Evo 1, Evo 2, Evo 3 & Evo 4. I guess it doesn't raid them together automatically. I would like to merge them into two separate 1TB drives (one for Windows, the other for Mac). What's the best way to do this?

 

[tsialex]

I would like to merge them into two separate 1TB drives (one for Windows, the other for Mac). What's the best way to do this?

Do you know that you can only do that for data/non-bootable drives?

 

[James Murray]

Do you know that you can only do that for data/non-bootable drives?

I thought there was a way of getting around that

 

[tsialex]

I thought there was a way of getting around that

Up to High Sierra. APFS RAID is not bootable and Mojave/Catalina don't support booting from RAID arrays that present as more than one disk.

 

[James Murray]

I figured out a way to create two RAID arrays (one for Mac, one for Windows) using High Point's software, but it's not letting me install Mojave or High Sierra onto either. I rolled back to High Sierra using time machine so I could upgrade to Mojave through the app store. It let me select the Mac Raid, but when I restarted it just booted right back to High Sierra on my old hard drive. I tried booting to the recovery console but it only lets me install High Sierra, and it doesn't give me the option to install onto either of the RAIDs. I even tried taking out my old hard drive to see if it will force it to boot into the installation of Mojave on my Mac RAID drive, but the computer just never started.

Up to High Sierra. APFS RAID is not bootable and Mojave/Catalina don't support booting from RAID arrays that present as more than one disk.

So there's no way to install bootable Mac or Windows on RAIDed drives? Even if the RAID is created through High Point Raid Management Software? 500 GB is too small for OS drives, I may have to sell these M.2 blades and settle for SSD.

 

[tsialex]

I figured out a way to create two RAID arrays (one for Mac, one for Windows) using High Point's software, but it's not letting me install Mojave or High Sierra onto either. I rolled back to High Sierra using time machine so I could upgrade to Mojave through the app store. It let me select the Mac Raid, but when I restarted it just booted right back to High Sierra on my old hard drive. I tried booting to the recovery console but it only let's me install High Sierra, and it doesn't give me the option to




Will reformatting them into mac journaled+ solve this?

Only if you use High Sierra.

Windows won't boot from a RAID array
with a Mac Pro and SSD7101A-1.

 

[James Murray]

Only if you use High Sierra.

Windows won't boot from a RAID array
with a Mac Pro and SSD7101A-1.

It's not even letting me install High Sierra on them.

 

[tsialex]

It's not even letting me install High Sierra on them.

Create the array with AppleRAID, without HighPoint web management or drivers.

 

[zachek]

Matched blades only matter for RAID.

APFS don't support RAID yet, so you don't have bootable RAID support with Mojave or Catalina. Bootable RAID still works with HFS+ and High Sierra.

With a 4-blade PCIe switched card, you can use one for boot and three for a data array.

Am I right in understanding that APFS doesn't support RAID for boot, but does support RAID if you're not booting from the array?

I am looking at the Sonnet Fusion 4x4 with 4x 1TB Evo Plus, using one for a boot drive and having the other 3 in a RAID 0. I only have 1 of these blades currently and its already formatted as APFS and functioning as my boot drive with Mojave installed. Its in a Sintech PCIe adapter in my cMP 5,1 slot #2.

When I replace the Sintech adapter with the Sonnet Fusion 4x4 in slot #2, would I want to format those 3 RAID 0 drives as HFS+ or is it ok to format them for APFS?

I'm assuming I will be able to simply plug and play the single Samsung Evo Plus blade I already have in the Sonnet Fusion 4x4.

 

[tsialex]

Am I right in understanding that APFS doesn't support RAID for boot,

Correct.

but does support RAID if you're not booting from the array?

Yes.

I am looking at the Sonnet Fusion 4x4 with 4x 1TB Evo Plus, using one for a boot drive and having the other 3 in a RAID 0. I only have 1 of these blades currently and its already formatted as APFS and functioning as my boot drive with Mojave installed. Its in a Sintech PCIe adapter in my cMP 5,1 slot #2.

When I replace the Sintech adapter with the Sonnet Fusion 4x4 in slot #2, would I want to format those 3 RAID 0 drives as HFS+ or is it ok to format them for APFS?

No problem.

I'm assuming I will be able to simply plug and play the single Samsung Evo Plus blade I already have in the Sonnet Fusion 4x4.

Yes.

Forget the Sonnet card for a MP5,1, too big to fit, it's to lengthy and every time you have to remove or install you have to force the PCIe fan.

For a MP5,1, HighPoint SSD7101A-1 v2.00 is the best card on the market today, now fan is totally controllable.

For a MP7,1 the new fanless Sonnet model is a contender, for people that want no noise and a no frills card.

 

[zachek]

Correct.

Yes.

No problem.

Yes.

Forget the Sonnet card for a MP5,1, too big to fit, it's to lengthy and every time you have to remove or install you have to force the PCIe fan.

For a MP5,1, HighPoint SSD7101A-1 v2.00 is the best card on the market today, now fan is totally controllable.

For a MP7,1 the new fanless Sonnet model is a contender, for people that want no noise and a no frills card.

That's funny, from my reading, it seemed the Sonnet was a better choice due to thermal considerations and build quality, but perhaps those comparisons were pre v2.00? Also thought I'd read on this forum some complaints about High Point customer service (which with my luck is a strong consideration for me.)

Is the length the main drawback to the Sonnet? I guess High Point being able to accept double sided blades is a plus for now it matters not, but I may want to upgrade blades in the future.

You have helped me before, and I have seen the breadth of your knowledge regarding all things MP, so I definitely trust your opinion here.

 

[tsialex]

That's funny, from my reading, it seemed the Sonnet was a better choice due to thermal considerations and build quality, but perhaps those comparisons were pre v2.00?

From the start (see the first post page) we saw the drawbacks of the Sonnet cards, there are two models one with fan and other fanless, like not being capable of booting Windows with a Mac Pro, the size and support for single sided blades only.

Also thought I'd read on this forum some complaints about High Point customer service (which with my luck is a strong consideration for me.)

Every major manufacturer has problems with DOA cards and cards that need warranty, at least it's not OWC…

Is the length the main drawback to the Sonnet?

Requirement of pre-boot configuration support, not capable of booting Windows, poor perfomance when installed in a MP7,1 (several people only get ~6500MB/s with an array of 970EVO when installed on a MP7,1, while SSD7101A-1 can get around 10500~11000MB/s with 4 970EVO) and etc.

I guess High Point being able to accept double sided blades is a plus for now it matters not, but I may want to upgrade blades in the future.

You have helped me before, and I have seen the breadth of your knowledge regarding all things MP, so I definitely trust your opinion here.

People that want a simpler easier to setup card, with little configuration options and with reasonable performance will probably be satisfied with the Sonnet models for a MP7,1, but for top performance, fine grain config, and MP5,1 usage, HighPoint SSD7101A-1 is the card to buy.

Btw, Amazon frequently have promotions/open box sales of HighPoint cards. My card is from an open box Amazon sale.

 

[zachek]

Btw, Amazon frequently have promotions/open box sales of HighPoint cards. My card is from an open box Amazon sale.

Sold. Thanks for the tip also. Amazon had one on sale for $309 from amazon warehouse so I snatched that up.

 

[tsialex]

Sold. Thanks for the tip also. Amazon had one on sale for $309 from amazon warehouse so I snatched that up.

Good price, I've payed $285 total back in October 2018 for a v1.00 card.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^I paid $351 for my 7103 back in January.

Lou

 

[mac.mr]

Hi! Is anybody know NVMe to PCIe macOS bootable adapter/controller with USB-3.0 or USB-c controller for cMP5.1 (both in one)? There is no free PCIe slots in MacPro5.1.
PS CCC 5.1.9 can clone 10.14.6 system disk to AppleRAID0 formatted HFS+ and keep it bootable. I've try it for two sata SSDs (2xCrucial C400) in MacPro5.1 (BM DiskSpeedTest - 450 MB/s) and MacBookPro mid 2012 unibody (not retina) with 2xSamsung 860EVO (BM DiskSpeedTest - 980 MB/s)

 

[tsialex]

Hi! Is anybody know NVMe to PCIe macOS bootable adapter/controller with USB-3.0 or USB-c controller for cMP5.1 (both in one)? There is no free PCIe slots in MacPro5.1.

Don't exist such card. A card like this would be a PCIe switched card to work with a Mac.

PS CCC 5.1.9 can clone 10.14.6 system disk to AppleRAID0 formatted HFS+ and keep it bootable. I've try it for two sata SSDs (2xCrucial C400) in MacPro5.1 (BM DiskSpeedTest - 450 MB/s) and MacBookPro mid 2012 unibody (not retina) with 2xSamsung 860EVO (BM DiskSpeedTest - 980 MB/s)

While you can do it, you will have to clone to a single disk to do macOS software updates then clone to your array after the updates are done.

 

[Krammer002]

A brief update regarding my IOCREST IO-PEX40152.... All is working well without issue with OS 10.15.5 in my cMP5.1

Purchased the card direct from IOCREST store on Aliexpress. $282

 

[DimaVR]

So I’m thinking about. Buying Mac Pro with 1TB drive

and adding 16x ssd card, which one just works with MacOS? And is the fastest one with out any issues, I just want to buy the carD INSTALL 4SSD drives 2TB foreach SSD. So many option and I been reading for an hour.Now. I want the fastest and one with no issues is the sommet one the best right now?
[automerge]1594624257[/automerge]

So I’m thinking about. Buying Mac Pro with 1TB drive

and adding 16x ssd card, which one just works with MacOS? And is the fastest one with out any issues, I just want to buy the carD INSTALL 4SSD drives 2TB foreach SSD. So many option and I been reading for an hour.Now. I want the fastest and one with no issues is the sommet one the best right now?

Also I’m thinking maybe I should hold off for two years till arm Mac Pro comes out??? I can get away for two years I think?? I’m kinda late on the new Mac Pro and feel soon as I buy this 2022 will be here and arm cpu will be out you know

 

[mac.mr]

Don't exist such card. A card like this would be a PCIe switched card to work with a Mac.

Can I use dual M.2 PCIe adapter (for example - https://www.amazon.in/QNINE-Adapter-Controller-Expansion-Profile/dp/B077YHFJZM) and install in it SSD Samsung 870 EVO plus and M.2 to USB3.0 Extender board ( http://www.bplus.com.tw/ExtenderBoard/P32S-P32F.html) in cMP 5.1 ?