Phil Schiller Says 32GB RAM on New MacBook Pro Would Have Required Battery Compromising Design

[tmphoto]

Okay then Apple, here's an idea. How about you make a completely separate, top-of-the-line, truly professional level laptop. You know, one that can actually be used in the field, in uncontrollable lighting conditions (with a big MATTE screen, however big it needs to be to make it 4K). And many of us who would buy this machine don't give two ***** about it being thin. Make it as fat as it needs to be to put in big honkin batteries that will last all day, even with 32GB of RAM!
But then I know that this is all just a crazy dream. Because it's clear now that if you can't sell tens of millions of something, then it's just not worth your time anymore.
Let me just say on behalf of all of us aging professionals who got you through your darkest days, you're welcome and thanks for kicking us to the curb.
RIP X Serve, 17" MacBook Pro, Aperture, stand-alone Displays, Magsafe(WTF!?), Airport.. what's next? Mac Pro?
And no, I can't do my work on an iPad. I don't care how big it is, sliding my finger around on a piece of glass is just not accurate enough.

 

[jujufreeze]

It's a requirement to make a "Pro" machine as thin as possible, even at the expense of performance? Whatever you say Phil

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Try "Handbrake" with a 16GB machine and you'll have a lot of fan noise for quite a while and Handbrake isn't even that demanding. Don't know other programs real Pro's use on their older MBPs, but would imagine the same.

Errr what?! Handbrake performance is CPU bound, not memory and handbrake is one of the most demanding pieces of software your average computer user will ever encounter.

It will literally consume as much CPU as you can throw at it. It will easily completely max out a Xeon processor with 8 cores and not break a sweat. As long as your storage is fast enough to feed the CPUs, handbrake will stress the crap out of your hardware.

 

[steve lowe]

Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller has allegedly responded to an email from software developer Ben Slaney to further clarify why the new MacBook Pro maxes out at 16GB of RAM, noting that supporting 32GB of RAM would require a different logic board design which might reduce space for batteries.Slaney himself wrote an article explaining how the new MacBook Pro uses a low power, enhanced version of DDR3 RAM called LPDDR3E, which maxes out at 16GB. To achieve up to 32GB RAM would have required using DDR4 RAM, but its low-power variant LPDDR4 is not supported by the Intel processors powering the late 2016 models.

Using the iStat Menus tool, Slaney determined that, under normal conditions, the LPDDR3E RAM uses 1.5 watts of power. In comparison, he said the notebooks would use about 3-5 watts if they were using DDR4 memory, although this estimate is rather loosely based on tests of DDR4 RAM on Windows-based notebooks.

Slaney said the 2-5 watts saved translates to 10% of overall power usage being dedicated to RAM versus 20-30% that would be required for DDR4 RAM, which, if accurate, helps justify Apple's power versus performance tradeoff.

Schiller previously addressed these power concerns in an earlier comment:Apple's decision is even more justified when considering background power draw, or the energy a notebook uses to go back into sleep mode after regular usage. Slaney said this figure is estimated to be about 50% of overall power draw on an average system when using DDR4 RAM, but only 20% when using LPDDR3 RAM.

Moreover, the new MacBook Pro would get less than 7 days of standby time if it used DDR4 RAM, compared to 30 days with LPDDR3E RAM, he said.The rest of the article reflects upon poor battery life in several Windows-based notebooks with 32GB RAM, part of which can be blamed on the FAA's 100-watt-hour limit on notebook batteries brought on airplanes.

Full Article: "Why the MacBook Pro is limited to 16GB of RAM" on MacDaddy

Article Link: Phil Schiller Says 32GB RAM on New MacBook Pro Would Have Required Battery Compromising Design

 

[thadoggfather]

Apple is having a helluva 2016.

Would SJ have been okay with management constantly needing to explain decisions they made due to public backlash?

ugh

 

[steve lowe]

i would prefer a thicker base and a far better battery and 32GB RAM that would justify a 'PRO' than making things thinner and thinner! maybe then they could of put a USB 3 port in to help the transition to USB C.

 

[SeaFox]

Who leaves their laptop on standby for 30 days?!

Lots of home users. Well, they don't leave it in standby for 30 days straight, but they don't ever shut it down. They just but it to standby when they aren't using it. Lots of them don't even know how to turn it off.

Then they wonder why their Apple Mail stops working, and call me claiming our email servers are down.
I have them reboot the computer (which often requires force quitting Apple Mail), and it's working again.

 

[BornAgainMac]

Apple is slowly losing me. I am testing out Android, Windows 10, Linux, and Amazon services. I really like Apple but I need to be ready to jump out of this eco system if they are not going to deliver good products.

 

[Workerbee Redux]

I trust Apple Engineers more than the random angry mob on MacRumors claiming to know things.

Schiller is not an engineer, he's a marketing guy. And as a marketing guy, he'd claim the sky is green if it helped selling stuff to you.

If you start believing marketing people more than customers of a company, you are on a dangerous path.

 

[torana355]

I have a terrible battery life with 16gb of RAM!

This here is the kicker, the TB model has **** battery life anyway lol All to shave off a few mm.

 

[shansoft]

People complain about DDR4 and 32GB is really beyond me.

Intel Skylake themselves DOES NOT support DDR4 out of box, in order to use one, they required to use 3rd party module to support it, which the battery usage does increase quite dramatic. Hence why no laptop with good battery life are using it.

Kabykake is the only one with DDR4 support out of box, but all the CPU provided by Intel are Dual-Core only.

Would you rather have more battery life? more RAM? Slower CPU? You pick your own drug.

 

[JRobinsonJr]

Also, to all the clamshell guys... a lot in here say they always use clamshell mode. Why did you not purchase a desktop?

Most professionals work in a combination of stationary and transitional modes. Personally, I work at my home office the majority of time but also travel to conferences, customers, etc. When at the office I have a couple of large external monitors plus kb/mouse. When traveling I need a laptop. Easy enough to have a single device.

 

[mrhick01]

make the chasis bit thicker, if it intended for Pro world.

Now for all of the criticisms that I see about Apple that make me chuckle...this is one where I believe people should know better by now.

That's not the way Apple rolls. It is a design goal under Ive to be thinner and lighter. They're pushing that envelope, and evidently they're willing to lose some customers over it.

 

[tmphoto]

Hey Apple.. when I asked for 4K, I meant the screen resolution, not $4K.

 

[Workerbee Redux]

Intel Skylake themselves DOES NOT support DDR4 out of box, in order to use one, they required to use 3rd party module to support it

Strangely enough, intel seems to disagree. According to their specs the core i7 6700HQ supports DDR4.

 

[341328]

Makes more sense now. Took them long enough to explain it!! So intel is dragging feet on low energy ddr4 and DisplayPort 1.3. Grrrr.

 

[tmphoto]

People complain about DDR4 and 32GB is really beyond me.

Intel Skylake themselves DOES NOT support DDR4 out of box, in order to use one, they required to use 3rd party module to support it, which the battery usage does increase quite dramatic. Hence why no laptop with good battery life are using it.

Kabykake is the only one with DDR4 support out of box, but all the CPU provided by Intel are Dual-Core only.

Would you rather have more battery life? more RAM? Slower CPU? You pick your own drug.

See that is exactly the problem. Apple doesn't let us pick anymore, they tell us what's best and we have no choice, other than to go to the dark side.

 

[Larry-K]

Lots of home users. Well, they don't leave it in standby for 30 days straight, but they don't ever shut it down. They just but it to standby when they aren't using it. Lots of them don't even know how to turn it off.

So this "Pro" machine is aimed at people who don't know how to turn their computer off?

 

[rdpbass]

Standby time is key if you are going to spend any significant time away from a plug and charger. Of course no one needs 30 days of standby. But Apple's current standby ability means that you don't have to bring a charging cord when you go away for the weekend knowing that you are going to only use light work that weekend. It would be frustrating if the laptop lost charge over time quickly.

One of the key things about battery life is not how the battery works now, but how it will work three or four years from now. Every laptop is sufficient these days during its first year. But Macs are expected to last five years. How is the battery life going to be at that point? Will it be even serviceable for a cross country plane ride?

Is it that hard to take the charger and plug in ?

 

[Jose Fuertes]

Hey Apple.. when I asked for 4K, I meant the screen resolution, not $4K.

And even for a $4k laptop the frame rate isn't that good on games

 

[imronburgundy]

It's everything that I wanted from the MBP save for macOS and TouchID, neither of which are dealbreakers obviously. The fans are noticeable under heavy load but definitely not so loud that it's off-putting. If you need a true workstation class machine, you'll be hard-pressed to find better.

You do any gaming on it? Curious how it holds up for that use seeing as it's such a small form factor.

Edit: Also, crazy that you get those specs for less than a new fully loaded MBP.

 

[MallardDuck]

And even for a $4k laptop the frame rate isn't that good on games

That I'm afraid we're going to be stuck with, since Apple's bet the farm on AMD

 

[Spectrum]

That's how Windows works. Does OS/X have similar capability? I don't recall...

Yes. There is Safe Sleep which copies to disk *and* keeps the RAM powered. Useful in case of a sudden power failure.
Then there is full-blown hibernate mode, which copies to disk and then powers down RAM. I actually have my iMac set up to do this every time it sleeps. As a result, I am able to put it to sleep, wait 30 seconds for disk activity to stop, then unplug and move it to another location. When I wake it up, all apps/windows/tasks are in an identical state just as if they had been on a regular sleep.
I thought that ever since about 2014(ish) all Macs went into full hibernate mode after a specified period of uninterrupted sleep (called the Sleep Delay). Something like 70 minutes for laptops I thought. Am I mistaken?
The new iMacs actually are also set to do this automatically overnight I believe. EU power-saving directive.

 

[Wahlstrm]

So basically if they kept the old thinness we could have got the 32GB and the 10h battery life..

I carry 2-3 cameras, a few lenses, chargers, spare batteries, cables, memory cards, etc and a laptop with me..
Thin and light is nice, but losing out on 16GB of extra RAM just to shave a 100grams? of my ≈10kg backpack is not exactly worth it. Ever.

 

[rGiskard]

What he means is that Apple prioritized a thin design over computing power, a bad decision for what is ostensibly a "pro" laptop that is often used as a desktop replacement.

Ive has too much power at Apple. The board needs to demote him and hire a CEO who better understands the balance between form and function.