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Phil Schiller Says 32GB RAM on New MacBook Pro Would Have Required Battery Compromising Design
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What about video and photo editing, is it common with macbooks?
To answer your question, is it common to develop software on a mac notebook?
Also data science, machine learning, neuronal networks, server-side development.
Among software developers, the spectrum is broad: some do frontend and can live with 8Gig, others need 32.
I think that's because the computer needs a certain amount of space for efficient airflow - not sure but that seems about right, considering that the internals are already so tightly packed.What's with all the empty spaces around the battery?
Can't put in a bigger battery? My ***!
Just saw the nMBP at the Apple store. They are indeed nice and I thought the touch bar as an interesting concept. That said, I am not planning to upgrade from my 2015MBP anytime soon. 16GB is a joke and I mostly use Photoshop that craves RAM. Also, I am waiting to see if there is a interesting idea to solve the port issue, maybe a full dock or something or better yet in couple years a larger USB-C adoption.
in 2-3 years time this will be the MBP series to avoid when buying secondhand/refurbished.
Lots of non-professionals buy the Pro laptops, some probably for ego reasons. Does Apple even have "consumer" offerings anymore? If you're not in the market for an Air all that leaves is the overpriced 12" Macbook.
I know lots of consumers what a screen that's more than 13". Apple doesn't make any laptops with screens larger than 13" except in the MBP.
Not hard. Obviously if you are taking an overnight bag there is room. But is nice to leave that bit out off the bag as well. But I do like long standby power. The lack of ability to hold a charge was an infuriating part of being a PC laptop user for years. I've also used Android tablets that would drain without being used in just a matter of days.
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But I'd still have to carry a USB-mini connector for my Android Phone. And until I get AirPods, I charge my wireless bluetooth headphones with USB-mini.
Anyway, my laptop these days is work issued PC. So I have a crappy power brick with me on most trips. If I get a MacBook Pro though I may turn in my PC and use the Mac.
I have thousands - seriously, thousands of users at my company who do exactly that.
And I know of a company with tens of thousands...
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Seriously Apple, thinner isn't what we want! But a machine that will last and be a grunt work horse that can handle anything we throw at it. I was excited about this new Mac prior to it's release, but I was severely disappointed and I'm sticking to my late 2011 MPB, that is a Pro laptop in every sense, that is fatter, that is heavier, that I could put in a 1TB SSD - and so it still keeps up with pretty much anything on the market.
If I did upgrade it it would be a 2015 model.
Apple is loosing the plot.
If I did upgrade it it would be a 2015 model.
Apple is loosing the plot.
I still don't get it. Perfect naming would be:
Macbook -> Becomes Macbook Air
Macbook Pro -> Becomes "Macbook"
Macbook Pro line gets a new line of slightly thicker laptops
"We didn't put more than 16GB of RAM in the computer, that would compromise battery life. But we did make it A LOT thinner, and reduced the battery size by A LOT." Hah.
Macbook -> Becomes Macbook Air
Macbook Pro -> Becomes "Macbook"
Macbook Pro line gets a new line of slightly thicker laptops
"We didn't put more than 16GB of RAM in the computer, that would compromise battery life. But we did make it A LOT thinner, and reduced the battery size by A LOT." Hah.
Linus Tech Tips investigated this claim a bit further, quite interesting. Spoiler: 32GB vs 16GB makes a difference in power consumption, but a very very slight one.
Why didn't Phil Schiller address the other major 'problem(s)' with his shinny magic 2016 rMBP -
• the SSD being a permanent part of the logic board now, so owners can't upgrade the SSD
• data may / almost certainly will be compromised if logic board and or SSD goes.
• if the logic board goes (approx £600 on an iMac - I know as ours is just back from apple repair under apple care) add the SSD so £1000+ so bin you laptop after warrantee ends after 12 months.
• folks who love apple but dont have deep pockets that go for 'entry level' SSD are in for a shock when they go to carry out a simple SSD upgrade in a few years time.
#disgraceful
• the SSD being a permanent part of the logic board now, so owners can't upgrade the SSD
• data may / almost certainly will be compromised if logic board and or SSD goes.
• if the logic board goes (approx £600 on an iMac - I know as ours is just back from apple repair under apple care) add the SSD so £1000+ so bin you laptop after warrantee ends after 12 months.
• folks who love apple but dont have deep pockets that go for 'entry level' SSD are in for a shock when they go to carry out a simple SSD upgrade in a few years time.
#disgraceful
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I did find it kind of strange that everyone was expecting 32 gb ram in the first place-- there is no other laptop in this class that offers 32 gb.
Certainly the MBP's main competitors (kaby lake dell xps and microsoft surface book) don't. In fact the only laptops that have 32 gb are gaming laptops that have truly awful battery life-- we're talking 3-5 hrs.
Don't get me wrong, the MBP is still crazy expensive for what it's offering, but 32 gb was always an unreasonable expectation for the kind of laptop the MBP is, IMO.
Certainly the MBP's main competitors (kaby lake dell xps and microsoft surface book) don't. In fact the only laptops that have 32 gb are gaming laptops that have truly awful battery life-- we're talking 3-5 hrs.
Don't get me wrong, the MBP is still crazy expensive for what it's offering, but 32 gb was always an unreasonable expectation for the kind of laptop the MBP is, IMO.
They were expecting the option of 32gb rather than it being standard.
It was a combination of:
1) No CPU performance update
2) Mediocure GPU performance update
3) Gimmicky touchbar
4) 16GB RAM limit
5) Worse battery life
6) Price increase
The last was a kick in the head given the first ones.
But oh wow, it's a half-a-can-of-coke lighter. My pack varies that much as I drink water during the day!
Linus Tech Tips tested this theory out. There's a power consumption test between 8, 16 and 32 GB configs
Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you or defending the MBP. I'm just talking specifically about the RAM issue.
Just offer different product choices.
Air is outdated and basically discontinued, so anybody who wants more than a 12" very low power MacBook is considered a Pro now?
They somewhat acknowledged this by offering a cheaper non-TB-MBP, but calling it an Air replacement while naming it Pro and pricing it Pro doesn't cut it.
If I was in charge, my current lineup would look somewhat like this:
12" MacBook with 1 USB-C on each side, Core M
14" MacBook with 1 USB-C on each side, 15W U-class CPUs
13" MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C, 1 USB-A, 1 HDMI
15" MacBook Pro with and without dGPU, 2 USB-C, 1 USB-A, 1 HDMI
13": thickness somewhere between new MBP and old rMBP, 28W CPUs, battery should come out at about 65 Wh
15": thickness somewhere between new MBP and old rMBP, 45W CPUs with Iris Pro 580. Model without dGPU is filling the free space with battery, ending up with about 90 Wh, dGPU model at about 80 Wh.
The revisionism and misplaced nostalgia here is easily the most hilarious part of these forums.
The G4 cube?
Removing arrow keys from old Macs to force devs to code for windowed environments?
Bye-bye legacy connectors on the original iMac?
Apple has almost always been, for better or for worse, about enforcing their vision of things. This is good if you like it and it fits you and bad otherwise. It's not new though.
Styling has always been important to Apple and sometimes even at the cost of function. This isn't an Ive thing, it's a company thing and it has been for as long as I can remember. Go watch an old video of Jobs introducing the iMac—actually talking about how much better looking the machine is was noteworthy in their presentation. I mean, if by "old Apple" you're talking about the Woz days you might have a point, but Apple has always been like this.
The primary change isn't form over function but rather who their target audience is. A company that was once supported by creative professionals isn't now. It's a strange world where I see creatives buying Windows and developers buying Macs but that's where we are.
And I think I lot people who look at specs without using these machines as a whole don't realize that Apple does put a lot of thought into the practical use of these machines. While PC makes cram a ton of battery-inefficient RAM in their machines to satisfy that crowd, Apple has power efficiency (and seriously, more people care about that than the tiny number that honestly needs 32GB of RAM) and they focused on SSDs that are—for lack of a better phrase—just plain stupid fast. In real world use, what is going to have a greater impact on the greatest number of users?
Who is the crowd than needs 32GB of RAM for the most part? Seriously. Who are they? I realize they exist but is the number high enough to justify compromising their design? Even the people who WANT that functionality would have a hard time arguing that it makes sense from a design or a business perspective. (And if you want the mobile brick laptop... exactly when was Apple your option?)
I will say, from my whole two days of work with this new machine... I love it. The size is great. TouchID is so nice. The Touch Bar is... interesting? Neat? (I didn't use function keys basically every so, as much of a novelty as it is, it's seen more use than the function keys ever did.) Huge touchpad? Guess how many more people are going to benefit from that than 32GB of RAM. (I even like the keyboard given some time with it. I don't love it but I can't say I loved the prior MacBook Pro keyboard either.)
Short answer is yes! Long answer is he.. yes!
I am a developer myself and have to run several application servers, database servers and development tools at the same time, on the same machine. Being a consultant, I work at different clients with different tools and setups so I have to be both 'portable' and have a powerful laptop.
Up until now a MacBook Pro was my only option. It's unix based and it's the only machine I have been able to throw everything at without having it complaining. It has been running smoothly and the fan only comes in when I'm really pushing it. I have tried the same on several windows machines, but most of them have not been able to handle nearly as much as my MacBook Pro's have. I even killed an HP's motherboard twice due to excess heat before i got my money back
I need a powerful and sturdy machine that I know 'just works' every time I open the lid. That's the reason for me and so many of my colleagues doing software development, for choosing MacBook Pro's.
So I'm the type of Pro that was expecting more from the new MacBook Pro line. I will not benefit from longer battery life of a touch bar. Just give me 32gigs of ram and the possibility to upgrade later and I will buy one this instance.
Hey Phil here's a clue: 32 or 64GB RAM ONLY when you are plugged into electricity, but toggles to 16GB when ONLY on battery power... You're welcome.
Fair enough.
It's the 'we know best, you don't need more ram you need a thinner, lighter machine with worse battery life instead' that I think angered people. The price increase on top was like a kick in the family jewels. Phil's making it worse with his condescending attitude and complete lack of apology or apparent understand that a decent chunk of his customers don't care about lighter and thinner.
We just wish that Apple would either jump in or get out of the high end market so we can make a choice. Just tell us if we should move to Microsoft. B