Phil Schiller Says 32GB RAM on New MacBook Pro Would Have Required Battery Compromising Design

[ShadovvMoon]

Linus Tech Tips tested this theory out. There's a power consumption test between 8, 16 and 32 GB configs

Linus Tech Tips investigated this claim a bit further, quite interesting. Spoiler: 32GB vs 16GB makes a difference in power consumption, but a very very slight one.

Except in this case we're comparing LPDDR3 vs DDR4, rather than DDR4 vs DDR4

 

[deany]

I did find it kind of strange that everyone was expecting 32 gb ram in the first place-- there is no other laptop in this class that offers 32 gb.

Certainly the MBP's main competitors (kaby lake dell xps and microsoft surface book) don't. In fact the only laptops that have 32 gb are gaming laptops that have truly awful battery life-- we're talking 3-5 hrs.

Don't get me wrong, the MBP is still crazy expensive for what it's offering, but 32 gb was always an unreasonable expectation for the kind of laptop the MBP is, IMO.

Nice to have the option though.

ie
Not solder RAM to logic board in the first flipping case.
[doublepost=1479770000][/doublepost]

It was a combination of:

1) No CPU performance update
2) Mediocure GPU performance update
3) Gimmicky touchbar
4) 16GB RAM limit
5) Worse battery life
6) Price increase

The last was a kick in the head given the first ones.

But oh wow, it's a half-a-can-of-coke lighter. My pack varies that much as I drink water during the day!

you forgot the welded SSD!

 

[embraceware]

The 16GB limit compromised my shopping cart.

 

[Max Portakabin]

Every time he speaks he just sounds likes he's taken a load of crack up his trout through a hundred dollar bill if his goooorjus retina screen whilst playing Wordless Chorus on loop.

Just retire already.

 

[Tsuchiya]

tl;dr they didn't want to make it thicker.

In other words performance on a pro machine was less of a priority over aesthetics.

Lol.

 

[fso119]

Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller has allegedly responded to an email from software developer Ben Slaney to further clarify why the new MacBook Pro maxes out at 16GB of RAM, noting that supporting 32GB of RAM would require a different logic board design which might reduce space for batteries.Slaney himself wrote an article explaining how the new MacBook Pro uses a low power, enhanced version of DDR3 RAM called LPDDR3E, which maxes out at 16GB. To achieve up to 32GB RAM would have required using DDR4 RAM, but its low-power variant LPDDR4 is not supported by the Intel processors powering the late 2016 models.

Using the iStat Menus tool, Slaney determined that, under normal conditions, the LPDDR3E RAM uses 1.5 watts of power. In comparison, he said the notebooks would use about 3-5 watts if they were using DDR4 memory, although this estimate is rather loosely based on tests of DDR4 RAM on Windows-based notebooks.

Slaney said the 2-5 watts saved translates to 10% of overall power usage being dedicated to RAM versus 20-30% that would be required for DDR4 RAM, which, if accurate, helps justify Apple's power versus performance tradeoff.

Schiller previously addressed these power concerns in an earlier comment:Apple's decision is even more justified when considering background power draw, or the energy a notebook uses to go back into sleep mode after regular usage. Slaney said this figure is estimated to be about 50% of overall power draw on an average system when using DDR4 RAM, but only 20% when using LPDDR3 RAM.

Moreover, the new MacBook Pro would get less than 7 days of standby time if it used DDR4 RAM, compared to 30 days with LPDDR3E RAM, he said.The rest of the article reflects upon poor battery life in several Windows-based notebooks with 32GB RAM, part of which can be blamed on the FAA's 100-watt-hour limit on notebook batteries brought on airplanes.

Full Article: "Why the MacBook Pro is limited to 16GB of RAM" on MacDaddy

Article Link: Phil Schiller Says 32GB RAM on New MacBook Pro Would Have Required Battery Compromising Design

 

[duervo]

Bleh ... more spin from a marketing exec. This is S.O.P. for marketing and PR executives. Take Phil's statements with a huge grain of salt.

 

[MH01]

In real world scenarios, the new MBP performs exceedingly well RAM wise, in "Pro" setups.

For the tiny super-niche of the 0,0001% that may really need 32 GB, Apple would have destroyed the performance and/or battery life of the new machines for all the rest of the users. Which happens to be the overwhelmingly majority.

Most of the whiners here are people who never, ever will need 32 GB or, most likely, people who never owned a Mac.

As far as my personal use case goes, I'm a heavy Logic Pro X user, and 8 GB proved to be much more than enough.

So no one needs 32 cause you don't.....If only we all did the same tasks...

 

[deany]

The revisionism and misplaced nostalgia here is easily the most hilarious.....Go watch an old video of Jobs introducing the iMac—actually talking about how much better looking the machine is was noteworthy in their presentation.

Can you explain this on topic rMBP

↑
It was MacWorld 1999 and he was talking about the iMac. Why did you lie?
Even the MacBook Pro was originally touted as an accessible, repairable machine — at Macworld in 2009, Steve Jobs said, “Our pro customers want accessibility: […] to add memory, to add cards, to add drives.” That’s part of what I love about my MacBook Pro. I’ve upgraded my RAM, and I even replaced my optical drive with an 80GB SSD.

www.wired.com/2012/06/opinion-apple-retina-displa/amp/?client=safari

 

[Max Portakabin]

So no one needs 32 cause you don't.....If only we all did the same tasks...

You know you're responding to a Cupertino troll?

 

[Rayleigh]

Apple dude we didint ask you to slim it down, or we never coplain about thinees.....

 

[fso119]

Let's see so many issues with the MBP.

- The LPDDR4E memory that is not supported by the current MBP processors. It's because Apple is using last year's processors. Nice job trying to BS the public there, Phil.
- Last Year's processors. Hey, Apple what about being on cutting edge of tech? Oops, you want to cheap out in order to max your profits off a now overpriced inferior Pro laptop.
- Sacrificing MagSafe and USB ports on the laptop for thinness. Only teenage girls care about thinness.
- The thinner you go, the less battery life you get unless you cut performance and upgradeability.
- Touchbar. Oooh, look at the cool thing my ****** laptop can do.

What a "Pro" Laptop should be:
-MagSafe power
-USB ports both 3.0 and USB-C
-Upgradeable Memory
-Upgradable SSD storage.
-How about a touch screen?

Hint: Look at Dell and Samsung. You weren't ashamed to copy before.

For now, I keep using my Early 2011 15inch i7 MBP with 16Gb RAM and 1Tb SSD until it dies. When it dies, if Apple doesn't have their sh*t together, I'll have to take the plunge and dump all Apple products for Windows and Android(still not impressed with the new iPhone features/reliability).

 

[DNichter]

What about video and photo editing, is it common with macbooks?

To answer your question, is it common to develop software on a mac notebook?

I thought you could do all of those things on a MacBook also. Maybe a couple less apps at a time, but achievable nonetheless.

 

[bighype]

What's with all the empty spaces around the battery?

Can't put in a bigger battery? My ***!

THIS!!!!

Schiller is juts a shill... aka marketing liar.

Apple crippled new MBPs by limiting battery. These new MBPs are exactly 4 lbs which means they were designed to meet certain weight requirements and not performance requirements.

 

[AndyJapan]

＠Apple/Phil Schiller
Please don't make excuses that are not very convincing, but listen to your customers and offer products that meet their needs and offer them at a fair price. The current pricing is mainly making your shareholders happy in case you will be meeting your sales targets. You won't believe it, but MS might be breathing down your neck very soon, at least for some products.

In my opinion, the new MacBook Pro is a disappointment because of the
- Keyboard (it just isn't as good as a 'standard keyboard')
- Lack of USB3 ports (Yes, I still need them and think that dongles are cumbersome and an aesthetic sin)
- Lack of SD card slot (Yes, I still have a digital camera)
- Soldered SSD & horrendous upgrade prices (Soldered SSDs are simply unaccpetable)
- Soldered RAM in combination with horrendous upgrade prices (Soldered RAM would be acceptable if offered at market price +/- 20%)

Too many shortcomings for a high price. No buy.

 

[Flynnstone]

Prioritizing standby time over total RAM is inexplicable on a "Pro" machine.

Excellent way of putting it!
The priority when some one ISN'T using the computer over when some one IS using the computer.
Jon's got a little too much stroke. Need someone like Jobs for the reality check.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Except in this case we're comparing LPDDR3 vs DDR4, rather than DDR4 vs DDR4

But...you can have more efficient DDR4 than 3...

 

[goldenboy48]

Make the thing bigger. The user which cares SO MUCH about mobility, could've just ordered Macbook Air or an iPad. For the power user, a little bit of thickness and weight does not matter.

 

[ShadovvMoon]

But...you can have more efficient DDR4 than 3...

There has to be some reason though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Isn't DDR4 cheaper than DDR3 too?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

There has to be some reason though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Isn't DDR4 cheaper than DDR3 too?

Unless there is a shortage of supply. They could wait until there is enough supply before offering DDR4...and a greater profit margin on their expensive memory upgrade configuration.

 

[Wiesenlooser]

You know these machines get hot, right? What's more, LiIon and LiPoly batteries can get hot with high-wattage use. That space is the space between having a laptop and a hot potato bomb.

Aaah come on. The previous retina macbook pro generation did extremely well in terms of cooling.

 

[deany]

Let's see so many issues with the MBP.

- The LPDDR4E memory that is not supported by the current MBP processors. It's because Apple is using last year's processors. Nice job trying to BS the public there, Phil.
- Last Year's processors. Hey, Apple what about being on cutting edge of tech? Oops, you want to cheap out in order to max your profits off a now overpriced inferior Pro laptop.
- Sacrificing MagSafe and USB ports on the laptop for thinness. Only teenage girls care about thinness.
- The thinner you go, the less battery life you get unless you cut performance and upgradeability.
- Touchbar. Oooh, look at the cool thing my ****** laptop can do.

What a "Pro" Laptop should be:
-MagSafe power
-USB ports both 3.0 and USB-C
-Upgradeable Memory
-Upgradable SSD storage.
-How about a touch screen?

Hint: Look at Dell and Samsung. You weren't ashamed to copy before.

For now, I keep using my Early 2011 15inch i7 MBP with 16Gb RAM and 1Tb SSD until it dies. When it dies, if Apple doesn't have their sh*t together, I'll have to take the plunge and dump all Apple products for Windows and Android(still not impressed with the new iPhone features/reliability).

Not sure about the touch screen but 100% agree with the rest
Phil Schiller comes across as a second hand car sales man.
apple need to retire him.
Have you noticed Tim doesn't get too involved in selling the products at key notes.
I think Tim needs to realise he is far more believable than the rest of them put together to launch a product.

 

[cmwade77]

In case anyone missed it, there is a regulatory limit, not a technical one on the size of the battery if people want to be able to take the device on a plane. This means Apple is probably nearing the point that they have to choose between giving a bigger battery or making a computer that can be brought on an airplane.

Now I would expect the RAM technology to improve fairly quickly and Apple may even push the FAA to revise regulations, but most computers are nearing the maximum battery size that can be brought on a plane, so I don't see larger batteries being an option until rules are changed.

 

[AfroAbel]

- The LPDDR4E memory that is not supported by the current MBP processors. It's because Apple is using last year's processors. Nice job trying to BS the public there, Phil.
- Last Year's processors. Hey, Apple what about being on cutting edge of tech? Oops, you want to cheap out in order to max your profits off a now overpriced inferior Pro laptop.

Please show me the processors Apple should Obviously have used.



oh wait they're not out yet? Apple actually had a valid reason to not put in Kaby Lake processors?

 

[Rayleigh]

Apple gonna repeat the history, this time there is no Steve Jobs to help them to pull up...and Jony is only as good as any designer who follow the boss...the boss with innovative ideas is missing in apple