Phil Schiller Says 32GB RAM on New MacBook Pro Would Have Required Battery Compromising Design

[gnipgnop]

- Virtual machines
- Multiple users
- Video and photo editing
- Generally any huge parallelized application
- **** ton of fat Excel documents
- Never closing your web browser windows

It would be great not to need a full-sized workstation or an off-site server for these things.

You mean like this...

https://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6355

"I finally got my MBP to do a teeny bit of back and forth swapping as I pushed up close (15GB) to the 16GB memory limit. I have to open almost every last thing on my system. Here’s what I ran:

• VMwarei Fusion: Three running virtual machines (Windows 10, macOS Sierra, Debian Linux)
• Adobe Photoshop CC: Four 1+gb 36 MP professional, multi-layer photos
• Adobe InDesign CC: A 22 page photography-intensive project
• Adobe Bridge CC: Browsing a folder with 163GB photos (307 images total)
• DxO Optics Pro: (Pro-photography workflow software) Editing a folder of images
• Xcode: Five production Objective-C projects, all cleaned and rebuilt
• Microsoft PowerPoint: A slide deck presentation
• Microsoft Word: Fifteen different chapters (separate .doc files) from my last book
• Microsoft Excel: A single workbook
• MachOView: Analyzing a daemon binary
• Mozilla FireFox: Four different websites, each in a separate window
• Safari: Eleven different websites, each in a separate window
• Preview: Three PDF books, including one very graphic intensive book
• Hopper Disassembler: Performing an analysis on a binary
• WireShark: Performing a live network capture as I do all of this
• IDA Pro 64-bit: Analyzing a 64-bit intel binary
• Apple Mail: Viewing four mailboxes
• Tweetbot: Reading all the flames and trolls in my mentions
• iBooks: Currently viewing an ebook I paid for
• Skype: Logged in and idling
• Terminal: A few sessions idling
• iTunes
• Little Flocker
• Little Snitch
• OverSight
• Finder
• Messages
• FaceTime
• Calendar
• Contacts
• Photos
• Veracrypt
• Activity Monitor
• Path Finder
• Console
• Probably a lot I’ve missed"

 

[Wahlstrm]

Regarding "nobody needs 32GB anyway because those machines are big and ugly"

Sure PC laptops with 64GB are big, ugly and have about 90min battery life..

But, it´s not like camera manufacturers and software companies focus on what the prettiest computer on the market can handle when they release new hardware and software. When a lot more powerful hardware is the norm it starts to push the minimum-/recommended specs whether you like it or not.

A $4500 MBP has 25% of the RAM you can get on a PRO Laptop PC..

The Mac Pro desktop max out at about 30% on the CPU side and about 10% of the RAM compared to a PC workstation..

If you only run Apple software this will of course never be a problem,
but if you run cross platform software then you are basically using the very low end of the hardware scale..

 

[flat five]

This is actually a lie and has been disproved already. Well It's been disproved technically on a Windows machine, and the result was not much battery was lost at all, in fact almost none.
[..]

Based on the tests done on a Windows laptop there was only a 4 percent of lost at 32GB DDR4 vs 16GB DDR4. Schiller's claim of "20 - 30 percent loss", isn't exactly accurate.

that's not what p.schiller or the guy Slaney was saying in the op..

re-read the op or at least this bit:

Slaney himself wrote an article explaining how the new MacBook Pro uses a low power, enhanced version of DDR3 RAM called LPDDR3E, which maxes out at 16GB. To achieve up to 32GB RAM would have required using DDR4 RAM, but its low-power variant LPDDR4 is not supported by the Intel processors powering the late 2016 models.​

they're not saying the difference between 16GB & 32GB is the problem in and of itself.. it's the difference between DDR3 & DDR4.. and that for 32GB in the mbp, apple would want to use LPDDR4 except the processors aren't available (yet?)

 

[deany]

The new "512Kb is enough for anybody." Is there any way that Apple is not following in the footsteps of Microsoft?

YES, 512Kb perfect as long as you dont want to upgrade the SSD and you backed up your precious data up to the last 5 seconds prior to the loss.
Plus I'm assuming you dont mind paying $1200+ for a SSD or and logic board repair.
Very sad with repect that you are 'blinded'.

 

[gnipgnop]

But, it´s not like camera manufacturers and software companies focus on what the prettiest computer on the market can handle when they release new hardware and software. When a lot more powerful hardware is the norm it starts to push the minimum-/recommended specs whether you like it or not.

Pro software usually equals legacy software, which means it's not being completely overhauled all that often. It's going to be running well behind the power of the hardware in terms of optimization etc. Video games are the market that pushes users towards bleeding edge hardware solutions on a regular basis, not pro software.

 

[flat five]

The new "512Kb is enough for anybody." Is there any way that Apple is not following in the footsteps of Microsoft?

who said "16GB RAM is enough for anybody"?
link?

 

[deany]

The new "512Kb is enough for anybody." Is there any way that Apple is not following in the footsteps of Microsoft?

you mean 512GB

 

[DevNull0]

You mean like this...

https://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6355

"I finally got my MBP to do a teeny bit of back and forth swapping as I pushed up close (15GB) to the 16GB memory limit. I have to open almost every last thing on my system. Here’s what I ran:

I guess you also believe that itoybook pro can drive 2 5k monitors.
[doublepost=1479775859][/doublepost]

you mean 512GB

No, he means 640kB.

 

[MallardDuck]

You mean like this...

https://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6355

"I finally got my MBP to do a teeny bit of back and forth swapping as I pushed up close (15GB) to the 16GB memory limit. I have to open almost every last thing on my system. Here’s what I ran:

• VMwarei Fusion: Three running virtual machines (Windows 10, macOS Sierra, Debian Linux)
• Adobe Photoshop CC: Four 1+gb 36 MP professional, multi-layer photos
• Adobe InDesign CC: A 22 page photography-intensive project
• Adobe Bridge CC: Browsing a folder with 163GB photos (307 images total)
• DxO Optics Pro: (Pro-photography workflow software) Editing a folder of images
• Xcode: Five production Objective-C projects, all cleaned and rebuilt
• Microsoft PowerPoint: A slide deck presentation
• Microsoft Word: Fifteen different chapters (separate .doc files) from my last book
• Microsoft Excel: A single workbook
• MachOView: Analyzing a daemon binary
• Mozilla FireFox: Four different websites, each in a separate window
• Safari: Eleven different websites, each in a separate window
• Preview: Three PDF books, including one very graphic intensive book
• Hopper Disassembler: Performing an analysis on a binary
• WireShark: Performing a live network capture as I do all of this
• IDA Pro 64-bit: Analyzing a 64-bit intel binary
• Apple Mail: Viewing four mailboxes
• Tweetbot: Reading all the flames and trolls in my mentions
• iBooks: Currently viewing an ebook I paid for
• Skype: Logged in and idling
• Terminal: A few sessions idling
• iTunes
• Little Flocker
• Little Snitch
• OverSight
• Finder
• Messages
• FaceTime
• Calendar
• Contacts
• Photos
• Veracrypt
• Activity Monitor
• Path Finder
• Console
• Probably a lot I’ve missed"

I call BS.

I'm at 12 GB right now without any VM's or Adobe software running, after a fresh boot.

To be fair, firefox leaks like a sieve and is currently sucking a gig down. But 3 VM's is 6-12 GB right there.

 

[rixax]

What's with all the empty spaces around the battery?

Can't put in a bigger battery? My ***!

I'll take a heavier Laptop with less battery life and 32 gig of ram right now. Make me one.

 

[agami]

Welcome the the New Pro: It is no longer an abbreviation for Professional. Like the Mac Pro before it, it is a consumer product with a high fidelity of industrial design (ID). Where other companies may have different driving philosophies for consumer and prosumer product lines, Apple's "We make beautiful products that people love to use" is ubiquitous. In that sense, Apple is more of a materials engineering company than a computer engineering one. It's about the intersection of liberal arts and technology. About how humans interact with information. Thus the touch bar.

 

[Mr.Brossard]

Dear Phil,

Please, get into your McLaren F1 and drive off of the nearest cliff. Oh, and take Tim with you.

Regards,
Your former customers.

 

[albebaubles]

I absolutely love all of the hate that Apple has been getting recently. They've really earned it all. Nothing but excuses and compromises. Not that it matters, since people will still hand them all their money.

People complaining about this don't even need the power that 32GB of RAM offers. 16GB is already a massive amount of memory!

Who TF are you to make that statement for everyone. Every write even one stick of code?
[doublepost=1479776763][/doublepost]Perhaps this is nonsensical, but it's less about what a person needs and more about that they want. I want 32gb ram in my computers. I want to run a windows VM 24x7 on all my development machines. i want multiple app code and intellij and, and, and running simultaneously. My workflow is my workflow. Not Phil the Schills. $4k is robbery for this thing.

 

[jimbobb24]

Lol. People going crazy over this and so few would have even put 32 Gb in.

But since they don't have and cannot have it they freak.

 

[NY Guitarist]

I'm calling BS on this one. I guess that's why Phil is the 'marketing' guy.

 

[Alessiot]

In my opinion .....it's a laptop

 

[dogslobber]

Dear Apple,

Stop making excuses and get 32GB into your PRO machine. You know, the one used by Professionals. Yes, we need the amount and no we won't tell you why. Just do it!

Regards,
Pro Consumer

 

[H1Supreme]

• VMwarei Fusion: Three running virtual machines (Windows 10, macOS Sierra, Debian Linux)

That's great and all, but it doesn't mean we still don't want more RAM. Those VM's will have the bare minimum amount of RAM dedicated to them. When you spin up a VM, you (usually) dedicate a certain amount of memory and hard drive space to it. Having 32GB available makes working with a VM and your regular OS sooo much nicer.

Considering the massive amount of developers that use Apple Macbooks for dev work, and use VM's regularly, this limit is a real kick in the balls.

 

[albebaubles]

16GB in this machine is fine. I've said a lot, heavy workloads and my RAM pressure is super low. The speed is incredible. No need for more ram for years to come.

says you.

 

[Black Belt]

Stop masterbatinv over thinness Phil. It's really simple.

 

[Mr. Bean]

That minority build the apps that the majority of the cash cow iPhone users need. Apple are great but to ignore and gimp products that are the basis of your major product line, is well completely stupid. Create a good environment for developers, good hardware and a large user base and your going to do well, lose a part of that and stagnation occurs.

The 2016 performance won't kill them but decline starts somewhere. In my mind it started with them gimping the 2014 Mac Mini, so many developers I know still have the 2012 Quad Core and won't let it go, if the hardware isn't what people want they'll stop developing for the platform or the platform doesn't get better. It was a cheap way in to developing, but come on who spends that kind of money on such pitiful hardware - it's £100 netbooks specs on a £450 device. iOS is stagnating. Look at iPads, the Pro has been out over a year and how many apps take advantage of the power?! The stagnation of software development started in 2014. Look at the iPad Air 2, it's been out so long, no apps really push that device either.

This Mac hardware refresh won't push or encourage developers and generally apps won't be any feature rich in future than they are now, so in turn why bother with the iPad Pro?!

Compound this with the MacBook Air, decent screens can be found in all manner of laptops, they've let the Air 13 rot and that was the most popular Mac with students, what student can afford a MacBook Pro without touchbar?! They are killing their future, in what seems an obsession to get devices 1-5mm thick.

Everyone has perfect 20-20 vision in hindsight, but not many can predict the future. Ergo, my comment in another post somewhere else is that we'll see in the near future whether Apple has made the correct business decision regarding the latest MBPs. At the end of the day, this is basically how the market works. I have already ordered one after inspection at the store, and found that it suits my needs. I would readily abandon the platform, albeit with heavy hearts, if I find that it no longer meet my requirements, and I'm sure others would as well if they are backed into a corner.

 

[albebaubles]

I don't think that's what they are saying, Kaby Lake will support LPDDR4 which can scale past 16GB. My guess is there will be a mild mid-year refresh of the MBP with KabyLake.

and the folks who spent $4k for the current are forked. typical apple.

 

[DNichter]

16GB has been the limit on MBP´s for 6 years now and PC´s are pushing 64GB.
Compared to 2011 most photographers now use at least 2x resolution, videographers use 4x the resolution or even more..
Even if 16GB still gets the job done for some, it sure won't for much longer and the economics of buying this machine just becomes horrible.. $4500 on a machine you already know won't cut it in 12-18 months compared to a 32GB machine that you know will work fine for the next 4-5years..

You make fair points. I guess it's just crazy to me that people still pay $4,500 for machines they feel are so inferior.
[doublepost=1479778183][/doublepost]

- Virtual machines
- Multiple users
- Video and photo editing
- Generally any huge parallelized application
- **** ton of fat Excel documents
- Never closing your web browser windows

It would be great not to need a full-sized workstation or an off-site server for these things.

I'd have to think choosing a windows machine is in the back of most of your minds then. Did anyone who needs 32GB actually just settle for the new MBP's then?

 

[MallardDuck]

16GB in this machine is fine. I've said a lot, heavy workloads and my RAM pressure is super low. The speed is incredible. No need for more ram for years to come.

I've always thought that memory pressure is just handwaving. Memory compression takes CPU cycles, and swap is slow. Both are considered 'ok' at various levels in the pressure calculation.

Compression is used when the specs are inadequate to handle uncompressed data. That's why we don't have full-bitstream 4K videos...we trade CPU (encoding/decoding time) to compensate for network and disk limitations. But the cost is lost data and shifting overhead to a different place. In many cases that's fine, but for a power user pushing the hardware, it's like squeezing jello between two balloons - there's just no extra headroom when you're maxing both RAM and CPU as it is.
[doublepost=1479779023][/doublepost]

You make fair points. I guess it's just crazy to me that people still pay $4,500 for machines they feel are so inferior.
[doublepost=1479778183][/doublepost]

I'd have to think choosing a windows machine is in the back of most of your minds then. Did anyone who needs 32GB actually just settle for the new MBP's then?

If they've been stuck on 2012 machines hoping for a real update, they're nearing end of life, so probably didn't have a choice. I noticed that the 2015 stock disappeared quickly, and the refurbs go as quick as they come - I suspect as many people as could (and I recommended that to more than a few), figured that if they're going to have to buy a new machine when the real upgrade comes out, they might as well save $700-800 now and get the same performance.

I watched two people come into the store for over the counter exchanges on their 2016's...the guy there noted that they're having a higher number than normal of bad-out-of-the-box units. Early adopter of this redesign is going to be very expensive.

I wonder is if the OLED touch bar is the new Newton. I just hope it's not Clippy. It'll be interesting to see if the gimmick lasts.

 

[thunng8]

I call BS.

I'm at 12 GB right now without any VM's or Adobe software running, after a fresh boot.

I call your BS. How can you be at 12gb after a fresh boot? Do you even know how to look at the activity monitor and know when you actually need more Ram?