picture of your car

[mfacey]

Well, not exactly on topic but close. The Smart ForTwo is coming to America! Talk about cool!. FYI, here's a link to their Smart USA site http://www.smartusa.com/movies.html and more specifically their movies. I love the "Big Man" movie. Anyway, here's my question to all on the otherside of the "pond": What do you think of the Smart? Please post some pics....hmmm, can't believe that no one has posted one here yet. Lastly, when do the performance parts come out ?? They've got to have a racing series by now

You can get a Brabus styling kit for the Smart ForTwo, but as far as performance goes, the standard car is pretty much a lost cause. Its handles terribly and has a tiny 3 cylinder engine. Nonetheless, I couldn't think of a better city car than the smart!

 

[zagato27]

You can get a Brabus styling kit for the Smart ForTwo, but as far as performance goes, the standard car is pretty much a lost cause. Its handles terribly and has a tiny 3 cylinder engine. Nonetheless, I couldn't think of a better city car than the smart!

I understand that the Smart ForTwo coming to the US is going to be a bit bigger, as in longer. Not sure about the engine being larger too. I've checked out some Smart forums and it seems that you can "remap" it and gain some hp and there are some other parts available. Mostly "plumbing" to let it breath a bit easier. These guys are saying 100 to 130 hp. Might be pretty neat in such a small car. Still looks neat, especially the Barbus edition. Cheers

 

[SpookTheHamster]

The Brabus edition is crazy quick, but it's still a really tall narrow car, so corners can be hairy with the understeer.

 

[Skrilla™]

my gas guzzler

 

[classof2011]

The best SUV I've ever been in. Not mine, but my mom's. I'm only 13 so you can see why I don't own it.

Also, she named it Ellen...(L N)...hopefully you get it

my gas guzzler

Ooh, my mom had a red 2004 Z71 Tahoe...also awesome.

 

[rickvanr]

The best SUV I've ever been in. Not mine, but my mom's. I'm only 13 so you can see why I don't own it.

Also, she named it Ellen...(L N)...hopefully you get it

You obviously haven't seen many.. The navigator, like most SUVs, is pretty 'meh'.

 

[phungy]

You obviously haven't seen many.. The navigator, like most SUVs, is pretty 'meh'.

I totally agree with you.

 

[classof2011]

mine, in the best colour, only had it a week, getting new a/v system fitted.

Kinda nasty seeing it in bits!

Dude that is a sweet car

 

[mfacey]

The best SUV I've ever been in. Not mine, but my mom's. I'm only 13 so you can see why I don't own it.

Also, she named it Ellen...(L N)...hopefully you get it

As far as SUVs go the Navigator is pretty sucky. Its impressive and I personally find it the best looking American SUV. But nothing can beat any of the Eurpean SUVs. Range Rover, BMW X5, Volvo XC90, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne (wins the ugly-prize). All considerably better than any american SUV! But also a lot more expensive. A Navigator will turn a lot more heads over here than any of the above though

 

[classof2011]

You obviously haven't seen many.. The navigator, like most SUVs, is pretty 'meh'.

OK well I don't know what "meh" means, but for 60K this thing is awesome! But you are right, I haven't seen many at all. Actually our local dealership has only sold 1 2007 model since they released, and I haven't seen it anywhere. But, the reasons why I like my mom's Navigator is because...

DVD player
Heated/cooled front seats
Power running boards/liftgate/3rd row seats
Moonroof

I hope she gets an Escalade next. I do NOT like the looks of the 2007 Lincolns. Although, she has told me she'll look into an Escalade. I thought she was getting a Porsche Cayenne or some BMW but I figured out she doesn't like the "round" SUV's , just like me.

mfacey, what's sucky about the Navigator? And also....those SUV's are actually in my opinion...ugly. Especially the Rovers. I hate those.

 

[mfacey]

mfacey, what's sucky about the Navigator? And also....those SUV's are actually in my opinion...ugly. Especially the Rovers. I hate those.

Fit and finish is terrible, it handles awfully, its , the chassis (isn't practically stone-age), it doesn't work off-road. But like I said, it is appealing in a certain sense, just like a Hummer H2 (which is also a terrible car). Makes you feel like a little kid

Range Rover sets the standard as far as SUVs go. Nothing is better off-road, has a better interior, or a better finish. The Range Rover Sport is even cooler!

 

[classof2011]

Oops. A bit fuzzy there....I could stay in this thread all day

Fit and finish is terrible, it handles awfully, its , the chassis (isn't practically stone-age), it doesn't work off-road. But like I said, it is appealing in a certain sense, just like a Hummer H2 (which is also a terrible car). Makes you feel like a little kid

Range Rover sets the standard as far as SUVs go. Nothing is better off-road, has a better interior, or a better finish. The Range Rover Sport is even cooler!

Well, I like it, although it is a bit wide. I've seen the inside of a Range Rover, they are nice, but too boxy looking to me. Hummers are all looks. My dad owned a black two thousand-something H2 (I guess my parents prefer black), it was rough, and not what he thought. Now, he owns a GMC truck.

I see where you come from in the fact that it doesn't work off-road, but I don't usually see much luxury-seekers like my mom going off-road. But, if I witnessed my mom go off-roading in her Navigator, I might not ever stop laughing. It just doesn't seem her to crank it up to 4x4 and going off-road

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

This thread is suppose to be about cars! not trucks, SUVs are considered trucks thats how they have bypassed all the rules the EPA has on cars.

 

[classof2011]

This thread is suppose to be about cars! not trucks, SUVs are considered trucks thats how they have bypassed all the rules the EPA has on cars.

Actually, I really don't think it matters. The OP, when said "car", just means what automobile you drive. If he means an actual car, I will go and make a different thread.

 

[rickvanr]

OK well I don't know what "meh" means, but for 60K this thing is awesome! But you are right, I haven't seen many at all. Actually our local dealership has only sold 1 2007 model since they released, and I haven't seen it anywhere. But, the reasons why I like my mom's Navigator is because...

DVD player
Heated/cooled front seats
Power running boards/liftgate/3rd row seats
Moonroof

I hope she gets an Escalade next. I do NOT like the looks of the 2007 Lincolns. Although, she has told me she'll look into an Escalade. I thought she was getting a Porsche Cayenne or some BMW but I figured out she doesn't like the "round" SUV's , just like me.

mfacey, what's sucky about the Navigator? And also....those SUV's are actually in my opinion...ugly. Especially the Rovers. I hate those.

'meh' = below average, uninspiring, boring, etc.. For 60k it's overpriced.

But, if you like the looks of it, the Escalade and the H2. They're really no point in arguing with you. What you think is awesome, I think is garbage and vice-versa.

 

[classof2011]

'meh' = below average, uninspiring, boring, etc.. For 60k it's overpriced.

But, if you like the looks of it, the Escalade and the H2. They're really no point in arguing with you. What you think is awesome, I think is garbage and vice-versa.

Glad you realized there really is no point in arguing. I just don't see why you think you can judge this SUV even though, you may have never owned one. I hated them myself until my mom bought a red 2000 model when it turned out to be better than her 2004 Tahoe which even had a DVD player. As of now, I can't stand the low-end GM companies.

In my opinion, it is above average (excellent)...eh..I don't know about inspiring...not boring because it's got power features and a DVD player!

 

[ErikCLDR]

OK well I don't know what "meh" means, but for 60K this thing is awesome! But you are right, I haven't seen many at all. Actually our local dealership has only sold 1 2007 model since they released, and I haven't seen it anywhere. But, the reasons why I like my mom's Navigator is because...

DVD player
Heated/cooled front seats
Power running boards/liftgate/3rd row seats
Moonroof

I hope she gets an Escalade next. I do NOT like the looks of the 2007 Lincolns. Although, she has told me she'll look into an Escalade. I thought she was getting a Porsche Cayenne or some BMW but I figured out she doesn't like the "round" SUV's , just like me.

mfacey, what's sucky about the Navigator? And also....those SUV's are actually in my opinion...ugly. Especially the Rovers. I hate those.

Yea Navigators are are meh to me to. Underneath it all they are just an expedition. Additionally, its hardly an SUV with its 2" of ground clearance. You can't beat the American interior build quality... I personally would take a rover over an lincoln any day except if I had to pay for its repairs. Range Rover's aren't that great off road though, 19" wheels are stock with low profile tires... not the best for driving in sand or mud or generally off road. The best rovers are the Series models, Range Rover Classics and Discoveries, especially discovery 1.

I love my dads 2003 discovery. I might get it but my parents are looking to get a me a previous generation low milage Grand Cherokee.

 

[classof2011]

You know what, this is just crazy. I post a picture of my (mom's) car, like the title says, and people start complaining about it when they think I won't return to this thread

Yea Navigators are are meh to me to. Underneath it all they are just an expedition. Additionally, its hardly an SUV with its 2" of ground clearance. You can't beat the American interior build quality... I personally would take a rover over an lincoln any day except if I had to pay for its repairs. Range Rover's aren't that great off road though, 19" wheels are stock with low profile tires... not the best for driving in sand or mud or generally off road. The best rovers are the Series models, Range Rover Classics and Discoveries, especially discovery 1.

I love my dads 2003 discovery. I might get it but my parents are looking to get a me a previous generation low milage Grand Cherokee.

I still don't see why people call Navigator garbage. No, they aren't made for off-road since they're luxury SUV's...I would say the Expedition would be more off-roadish. But as for RR, I personally hate Strange Rovers .

 

[ErikCLDR]

I still don't see why people call Navigator garbage. No, they aren't made for off-road since they're luxury SUV's...I would say the Expedition would be more off-roadish. But as for RR, I personally hate Strange Rovers .

I wouldn't call it that luxurious. Cheap leather, cheap interior. Its more "Gimicky" with power running boards for people that can't can't make the 3" step into the car and power liftgate for people that can't pull a handle. Performance wise it drives like a truck I would guess, cause its built on the chasis of one.

Design wise the navigator is wayyyy to chunky. I've been in Navigators and Expeditions. I have found that they are massive on the outside, but on the inside you would expect more room. Look at the front end of your Navigator. Between the grill and the radiator there is like 1ft of nothing. I always thought Lincolns had hideous wheels too.

BTW I wouldn't go with a Cayenne. Their interiors suck. My mom has the Touareg which has the same frame and much better interior. The Cayennes have better engines available like the turbo but unless you are racing your 6000lb suv you won't be needing it. Same with the Audi q7. I think the interior is blah but it does offer the 3rd row seating which makes it a good option. No one except VW offers the V10 TDI though .

The point of an SUV is to be more capable than sedans and vans and wagons. Real Luxury SUVs include Land Rovers, Lexus GX and LX, Toyota Land Cruiser, Touareg,, G500, etc. They have the ability to be luxurious and be capable off road. Cars like X5, M-Class, with AWD and no low range 4wd and basically giant station wagons. Chunky cars with no ground clearance are like giant minivans with poor gas mileage.

And what makes range/land rovers strange?

thought i might add this

OK well I don't know what "meh" means, but for 60K this thing is awesome! But you are right, I haven't seen many at all. Actually our local dealership has only sold 1 2007 model since they released, and I haven't seen it anywhere.

Well first off I doubt that thing was 60k and if you actually did spend that much you got ripped off and if somehow that was a good deal I would never spend 60k on that.

I agree the 2007 are ugly. But the dealer probably has only sold one cause they just came out.

 

[blitzkrieg79]

Fit and finish is terrible, it handles awfully, its , the chassis (isn't practically stone-age), it doesn't work off-road. But like I said, it is appealing in a certain sense, just like a Hummer H2 (which is also a terrible car). Makes you feel like a little kid

Range Rover sets the standard as far as SUVs go. Nothing is better off-road, has a better interior, or a better finish. The Range Rover Sport is even cooler!

I can name two cars that are better and more RELIABLE off-roaders, Pajero and Land Cruiser. Land Rover is over rated, considering it's price and lack of quality it pretty much is a waste of money unless you like your weekly trips to dealerships resolving various problems. On paper Land Rover does look like a winner and it has a rich history but when talking about real off-roaders, todays Land Rover/Range Rover is definately not what it used to be or stand for.

Besides, the term SUV has been abused here in USA, Sports Utility Vehicle, was used to desribe off-road vehicles, 90% of so called SUVs (cars such as Navigator, Tahoe, X3 etc etc.) would get stuck in the first 2 inches of mud. To me those cars are just enlarged and heightened vans. Good job to marketing departments though.

 

[phungy]

Let's end the bashing and post pictures. I'll start.

More can be seen here

 

[ErikCLDR]

I can name two cars that are better and more RELIABLE off-roaders, Pajero and Land Cruiser. Land Rover is over rated, considering it's price and lack of quality it pretty much is a waste of money unless you like your weekly trips to dealerships resolving various problems. On paper Land Rover does look like a winner and it has a rich history but when talking about real off-roaders, todays Land Rover/Range Rover is definately not todays standard.

Besides, the term SUV has been abused here in USA, Sports Utility Vehicle, was used to desribe off-road vehicles, 90% of so called SUVs would get stuck in the first 2 inches of mud. To me those cars are just enlarged and heightened vans. Good job to marketing departments though.

Don't get me started with my Land Rover reliability rant. Yes, the are horrible, but you can't blame them, they are british. I would say they are a lot more capable (with appropriate tires) than most stock SUVs (with appropriate tires. Land Rover actually offers center locking and rear locking differentials. Jeep's Quadra-Drive and the 4WD in the G-500/G55 offer front, center, and rear locking differentails which is ideal for offroading. The BMW X5 offers down hill decent control but has no low range 4wd like many luxo SUVs.

Land rover also allows the driver to change the engine response sensitivity- less sensitive for off road driving thus more control. Additionally, the Air-Suspension in rovers have like 5" of variability in the LR3/P38 Range Rover/Range Rover Sport. The air suspension in competators has like 2" of variability.

 

[blitzkrieg79]

Don't get me started with my Land Rover reliability rant. Yes, the are horrible, but you can't blame them, they are british. I would say they are a lot more capable (with appropriate tires) than most stock SUVs (with appropriate tires. Land Rover actually offers center locking and rear locking differentials. Jeep's Quadra-Drive and the 4WD in the G-500/G55 offer front, center, and rear locking differentails which is ideal for offroading. The BMW X5 offers down hill decent control but has no low range 4wd like many luxo SUVs.

Land rover also allows the driver to change the engine response sensitivity- less sensitive for off road driving thus more control. Additionally, the Air-Suspension in rovers have like 5" of variability in the LR3/P38 Range Rover/Range Rover Sport. The air suspension in competators has like 2" of variability.

Again, I am not knocking capabilities of such Land Rovers as the mighty Defender but the current crop such as LR3 have all the electronic gadetry but they are HEAVY vehicles. The current LR3 is about 1000 pounds heavier than the newest Pajero, you can have the best electronics on the plante but weight is the enemy here especially when it comes to mud and approach angles.

 

[ErikCLDR]

Again, I am not knocking capabilities of such Land Rovers as the mighty Defender but the current crop such as LR3 have all the electronic gadetry but they are HEAVY vehicles. The current LR3 is about 1000 pounds heavier than the newest Pajero, you can have the best electronics on the plante but weight is the enemy here especially when it comes to mud and approach angles.

That is a good point, if I remember correctly the LR3 V8 is 5880 pounds or so. Land Rover Defender is a great vehicle, my neighbor has one, its too bad they aren't sold in america any more- when they did they cost 70,000 I think, and to pick up a 1997 (last year sold in US) they will cost around 40k. In Europe you can buy them for wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less. Its too bad you can't import them.

They don't sell Pajeros in the US do they? I know there are monteros. I remember CR saying they are incredibly unsafe.

 

[blitzkrieg79]

That is a good point, if I remember correctly the LR3 V8 is 5880 pounds or so. Land Rover Defender is a great vehicle, my neighbor has one, its too bad they aren't sold in america any more- when they did they cost 70,000 I think, and to pick up a 1997 (last year sold in US) they will cost around 40k. In Europe you can buy them for wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less. Its too bad you can't import them.

They don't sell Pajeros in the US do they? I know there are monteros. I remember CR saying they are incredibly unsafe.

Mitsubishi adressed the problem with upgrading the traction and stability control (M-ASTC) but it was more of a freak accident during the questionable CR report (which recently even admitted flaws in conducting child seat studies which is not the first case of such admittance http://www.care2.com/news/member/410698035/277049 , long time ago they bashed Suzuki Samurai for being "turnable" and then few years later admitted that basically the people who were responsible for the test were not performing the standard routines but really some hard core driving that would turn over most other vehicles).