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MP 7,1 POLL: The NEW Cheese Grater Mac Pro (nCMP). Hot or Not?
- Thread starter ZombiePhysicist
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Hi nCMP'ers,
haven't posted in a while, due to waiting for nCMP.
My immediate reactions...
1. At Last ! its been a long wait...
2. Oh, no :-( that MPX stuff looks like a "closed shop" and I want to put in Nvidia graphics / CUDA processing
3. then... what no dual CPU ... that seems to be limiting
4. finally oh please don't tell me they have soldered in the SSD's again so I have no flexibility with storage and its interaction with T2 security chip
5. Hooray dual 10 GbE, but now the world is moving to 25 GbE, but that is ok as I can get a new SmallTree card sometime in the future I expect
6. Don't know about the look, but new new 6K display "looks" really good from a size , resolution, quality perspective
After doing some research:
1. Ok well maybe 28 cores is enough for a workstation (I currently have a server, Lenovo x3650 M5 with 2 x 16 CPUs and 192 GB RAM. This becomes 64 cores with hyer-threading and it easily manages running around 25 VMs via Linux KVM hypervisor including a number of virtualised mac minis. So realistically I can live with single BIG CPU
2. I see that Promise Technology (the storage people) are already previewing MPX based in chassis storage, so looks like Apple is at least opening up possibility of other suppliers making MPX compatible cards. What is chance of Nvidia coming on board ... ? And even they don't come on board, specs indicate that there are good old fashioned PCIe Auxillary power connectors (I was one of the people who did direct power supply soldering to get PCIe Auxillar power onto my Nvidia Titan X Card), so I could put a standard PCIe Mac EFI Nvidia card in. But Nvidia need to come on board if Adobe and other media SW company are going to update their OSX/MacOS software for Mac CUDA (I am still running Adobe Creative Suite 6)
3. Storage looks to be more upgradeable and presume drives are NVMe and if you want onboard storage 4TB flash is likely sufficient for my needs as I have 10 GbE AFP / NFS available from server and machine can support bonded 10 GbE so I will have big storage via network
Other thoughts:
A. I really like the new handles, I have a 12 Core cMP and it is not easy to carry and while it looks nice it hurts your hands and it is a heavy beast... so
B. Wheels ! yes I will have them thank you. A simple and useful feature
C. Afterburner & MPX / Radeon, Apple of done a great job of providing a turn key solution, but at the cost of fostering an open system. Time will tell.
Mark / Score:
A- : Apple have produced a really nice professional work horse here.. I give a (-) due to no Nvidia / CUDA and the fact that they specifically mentioned being better then Nvidia in presentation. I wish Apple would just team up with Nvidia and let us consumers choose our preferred Graphics vendor...
Will I buy one...
I am a long time user of cMP, about 12 months ago I sold off my Late 2009 xServe file server and replaced it with my x3650 server and moved the cMP down into basement to act as File Server & Time Machine front end. I had a bunch of mac mini's running a bunch of Linux, Windows and MacOS VMs. I have now moved all these VMs onto Linux x3650 and am very happy with performance and greater reliability. I moved the native OSX/macOS software that was running on cMP onto new mac mini and Mac Book Pro. Both of these machines are top spec (6 cores each == 12 same as my cMP), so I have spend a lot of $$ on Apple kit lately.
I think I would be inclined to buy the 6K monitor (I hope it works with my new mini and Mac Book Pro) and make a decision on nCMP later. I recently I sold via eBay my original 31 inch Cinema Display (original box and all in perfect working order for around AUD $500), which set me back $AUD 3000 & something at the time & am currently using 4K TV as my monitor.
The simple truth is that in the waiting for a replacement for my much loved 2012 12 Core cMP, I have moved my workloads onto other machines... but never say never. I will see how things pan out.
Finally...
For all you PCIe Gen4 and even Gen5 people.
The wait was been too long already, Gen4 is not available with Intel and Gen5 is some way away. If you need a super OS X / macOS workstation, the new Cheese Grater is the new King. The Trash Can is dead long live the King!
Cheers,
Zebity.
EDIT / NOTE: USB-C / Thunderbolt ports / power on top of box... there is an Australian expression.. "they are are about as useful as tits on a bull" ;-)
haven't posted in a while, due to waiting for nCMP.
My immediate reactions...
1. At Last ! its been a long wait...
2. Oh, no :-( that MPX stuff looks like a "closed shop" and I want to put in Nvidia graphics / CUDA processing
3. then... what no dual CPU ... that seems to be limiting
4. finally oh please don't tell me they have soldered in the SSD's again so I have no flexibility with storage and its interaction with T2 security chip
5. Hooray dual 10 GbE, but now the world is moving to 25 GbE, but that is ok as I can get a new SmallTree card sometime in the future I expect
6. Don't know about the look, but new new 6K display "looks" really good from a size , resolution, quality perspective
After doing some research:
1. Ok well maybe 28 cores is enough for a workstation (I currently have a server, Lenovo x3650 M5 with 2 x 16 CPUs and 192 GB RAM. This becomes 64 cores with hyer-threading and it easily manages running around 25 VMs via Linux KVM hypervisor including a number of virtualised mac minis. So realistically I can live with single BIG CPU
2. I see that Promise Technology (the storage people) are already previewing MPX based in chassis storage, so looks like Apple is at least opening up possibility of other suppliers making MPX compatible cards. What is chance of Nvidia coming on board ... ? And even they don't come on board, specs indicate that there are good old fashioned PCIe Auxillary power connectors (I was one of the people who did direct power supply soldering to get PCIe Auxillar power onto my Nvidia Titan X Card), so I could put a standard PCIe Mac EFI Nvidia card in. But Nvidia need to come on board if Adobe and other media SW company are going to update their OSX/MacOS software for Mac CUDA (I am still running Adobe Creative Suite 6)
3. Storage looks to be more upgradeable and presume drives are NVMe and if you want onboard storage 4TB flash is likely sufficient for my needs as I have 10 GbE AFP / NFS available from server and machine can support bonded 10 GbE so I will have big storage via network
Other thoughts:
A. I really like the new handles, I have a 12 Core cMP and it is not easy to carry and while it looks nice it hurts your hands and it is a heavy beast... so
B. Wheels ! yes I will have them thank you. A simple and useful feature
C. Afterburner & MPX / Radeon, Apple of done a great job of providing a turn key solution, but at the cost of fostering an open system. Time will tell.
Mark / Score:
A- : Apple have produced a really nice professional work horse here.. I give a (-) due to no Nvidia / CUDA and the fact that they specifically mentioned being better then Nvidia in presentation. I wish Apple would just team up with Nvidia and let us consumers choose our preferred Graphics vendor...
Will I buy one...
I am a long time user of cMP, about 12 months ago I sold off my Late 2009 xServe file server and replaced it with my x3650 server and moved the cMP down into basement to act as File Server & Time Machine front end. I had a bunch of mac mini's running a bunch of Linux, Windows and MacOS VMs. I have now moved all these VMs onto Linux x3650 and am very happy with performance and greater reliability. I moved the native OSX/macOS software that was running on cMP onto new mac mini and Mac Book Pro. Both of these machines are top spec (6 cores each == 12 same as my cMP), so I have spend a lot of $$ on Apple kit lately.
I think I would be inclined to buy the 6K monitor (I hope it works with my new mini and Mac Book Pro) and make a decision on nCMP later. I recently I sold via eBay my original 31 inch Cinema Display (original box and all in perfect working order for around AUD $500), which set me back $AUD 3000 & something at the time & am currently using 4K TV as my monitor.
The simple truth is that in the waiting for a replacement for my much loved 2012 12 Core cMP, I have moved my workloads onto other machines... but never say never. I will see how things pan out.
Finally...
For all you PCIe Gen4 and even Gen5 people.
The wait was been too long already, Gen4 is not available with Intel and Gen5 is some way away. If you need a super OS X / macOS workstation, the new Cheese Grater is the new King. The Trash Can is dead long live the King!
Cheers,
Zebity.
EDIT / NOTE: USB-C / Thunderbolt ports / power on top of box... there is an Australian expression.. "they are are about as useful as tits on a bull" ;-)
Last edited:
Re: the display - apparently that is consuming a lot of power and has an audible fan running in it. From the looks of it totally not intended as a replacement for any of their previous displays.
As I said, this Mac Pro is more of a caterpillar, a nice thing for a certain type of editor/compositor - no longer a general purpose macOS prosumer 'PC'. The price certainly reflects that.
My Trashcan isn't going anywhere.
As I said, this Mac Pro is more of a caterpillar, a nice thing for a certain type of editor/compositor - no longer a general purpose macOS prosumer 'PC'. The price certainly reflects that.
My Trashcan isn't going anywhere.
The old Cheese grater was function over all else (perhaps even more so, with its 5.25" & 3.5" drive bays) and still looked stunning. I don't understand what happened with this new one. It's almost like they're taking the piss and decided to intentionally make it look like like an actual cheese grater. Those stumpy little legs that make it look comically stupid. I hope they can be easily removed.
I really like the design of the new Mac Pro. Cheese grater or not. There is a building in London that carries the same name. It doesn't matter if it works.
I like how the design is a throwback to the Power Macs of the old days. I used to have a green Power Mac G3, it was also a boxy design with handles. This new machine looks so sleek in comparison. I probably will never buy the new Mac Pro, times have changed and I have all the computing power I ever need in an iPad. But I sure hope the professional market got what they needed.
I like how the design is a throwback to the Power Macs of the old days. I used to have a green Power Mac G3, it was also a boxy design with handles. This new machine looks so sleek in comparison. I probably will never buy the new Mac Pro, times have changed and I have all the computing power I ever need in an iPad. But I sure hope the professional market got what they needed.
Attachments
I always thought these semi translucent ones were really hideous looking. Along with the striped bubblegum colored OSX UI of the time I suppose.
The 2006 aluminium cheesegrater however is something I can approve of as a kind of timeless look that still seems modern, as is the trashcan (the latter would have been better with a matte finish though - the distorted reflections simply look strange on it).
This latest design seems to have come out of left field, at least the outer casing. Wonder what's the story with that. Is the MBP going to adopt that look?
Along with the striped bubblegum colored OSX UI of the time I suppose.The 2006 aluminium cheesegrater however is something I can approve of as a kind of timeless look that still seems modern, as is the trashcan (the latter would have been better with a matte finish though - the distorted reflections simply look strange on it).
This latest design seems to have come out of left field, at least the outer casing. Wonder what's the story with that. Is the MBP going to adopt that look?
Yup to go with their phones another Apple product that you have to use how Apple want you to use it, not how you
want to use it.
Don't forget about t2 and secureboot, later one would need to be disabled if you want to load efi from 3rd part videocard.
But there is a chance for a pc's pcie card to go into new mac pro (how do we call it btw? nnMP? vnMP? ncMP? (it's very new, and new classic)) for a lower price
[doublepost=1559644311][/doublepost]we can also call them now
3,1/4,1/5,1 - cMP
6,1 - tMP (trashcan MP)
7,1 - nMP
The features shown in that video are insane. I like it.... and I'm never ever going to come close to needing anything with that much horsepower. I'll probably go to the Apple store to touch it a few times just for the experience, be done with my fascination, and probably then forget that it even exists.
I wonder what we get for that 6000$ starting price if you eliminate the 8C cpu, 580X, 32 gb Ram, 256 SSD ??
I wonder bec the imac pro starts from 5000$ with 8C cpu, Vega 56 thats is better than 580X, 1T SSD thats better than 256 SSD and 32gb Ram
So, the gpu and SSD are better on the imac pro (5k display included, but lets say the mac pro is for expendability not closed system) but for the components alone, why 1000$ more?
I wonder bec the imac pro starts from 5000$ with 8C cpu, Vega 56 thats is better than 580X, 1T SSD thats better than 256 SSD and 32gb Ram
So, the gpu and SSD are better on the imac pro (5k display included, but lets say the mac pro is for expendability not closed system) but for the components alone, why 1000$ more?
I like the new Mac Pro, but the pricing is insane (as expected). It's priced to not lower the iMac Pro sales and the modularity is also somehow half-way there. The monitor is something extraordinary and the technology might be worth every cent, but of course it would be nice to get an updated Thunderbolt monitor 27" with 5K priced around 1200-1700.
So if you have the money, you won't be disappointed. I'm not planning to buy the new Mac Pro, I don't need that much power, but I hoped for a decent monitor for a Mac Mini / MBP. The build quality of non-Apple monitors is just not really good. iMac is the best option to get a great monitor + computer, but I would prefer something more modular (monitor + mac mini + egpu).
So if you have the money, you won't be disappointed. I'm not planning to buy the new Mac Pro, I don't need that much power, but I hoped for a decent monitor for a Mac Mini / MBP. The build quality of non-Apple monitors is just not really good. iMac is the best option to get a great monitor + computer, but I would prefer something more modular (monitor + mac mini + egpu).
That jumped out at me, too, along with the 2.6GB/s SSD read speed. I have an Amfeltec M.2 carrier board with a Samsung 970 Pro NVMe in #2 x16 PCIe 2.0 slot of my 2010 Mac Pro tower that goes 3.0GB/s sequential read. And the Hackintosh in my arsenal with PCIe 3.0 x16 slot measures 3.5GB/s with the same board and flash blade.
[doublepost=1559646791][/doublepost]
I think the base model with 256G SSD and 580X GPU for $5999 is underwhelming. I bought the 2017 iMac Pro with 8-core Xeon, 16G memory, 1TB flash storage, and optional Pro Vega 64 for $5549. And that includes a 27" 5K Retina display!
From another thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-new-colander-mac-pro.2183802/page-6#post-27424592), here is how you get 3.5" drives in the nCMP:
https://www.promise.com/us/Promotion/PegasusStorage
[doublepost=1559649305][/doublepost]So I saw a lame article from the verge estimating the 28core chip would cost $7.5k to upgrade. I wont even link to the click bait, but it's interesting to note, that the chip goes from around $3k-3.2k online:
https://www.rakuten.com/shop/thekey...MI7ur3kuLP4gIVDVcNCh2QcgpPEAkYAyABEgINlfD_BwE
https://www.promise.com/us/Promotion/PegasusStorage
[doublepost=1559649305][/doublepost]So I saw a lame article from the verge estimating the 28core chip would cost $7.5k to upgrade. I wont even link to the click bait, but it's interesting to note, that the chip goes from around $3k-3.2k online:
https://www.rakuten.com/shop/thekey...MI7ur3kuLP4gIVDVcNCh2QcgpPEAkYAyABEgINlfD_BwE
The $6K base price point? In 2013, I paid over $6K for the 'turbo tube' with 8-core CPU, 32G of memory, 512G flash storage, and dual FirePro D700 GPUs. For $6K in 2019, the 256G flash storage and 580X GPU is a bit insulting. At that price, Apple should include 1TB flash storage and at least one Pro Vega II (or a Radeon VII).
Eh, that's an actual video downloaded from Apple's site. I tend to be a bit more origininal while still grabbing the low-hanging fruit…
Hi netkas,
Good point about T2 and secure boot potentially stopping use of “Mac’ed EFI” firmware working...
I had a lot of trouble with T2 chip / security issues when I tried to move machine from old Mac mini -> new Mac mini with T2 chip. It took be two days of mucking around to get machine to boot off old one via thunderbolt , and then clone over disk.
On new Mac Book Pro, I had to give up as the macOS install was obviously a special cut and I could not get it to boot of “target disk” Mac or via new USB, due to either T2 or other special driver needs.
I have never tried to run eGPU set up with either of these machines with Nvidia card, but believe others have. Have you ever done NVidia eGPU on T2 Mac ?
Cheers,
Zebity.
Good point about T2 and secure boot potentially stopping use of “Mac’ed EFI” firmware working...
I had a lot of trouble with T2 chip / security issues when I tried to move machine from old Mac mini -> new Mac mini with T2 chip. It took be two days of mucking around to get machine to boot off old one via thunderbolt , and then clone over disk.
On new Mac Book Pro, I had to give up as the macOS install was obviously a special cut and I could not get it to boot of “target disk” Mac or via new USB, due to either T2 or other special driver needs.
I have never tried to run eGPU set up with either of these machines with Nvidia card, but believe others have. Have you ever done NVidia eGPU on T2 Mac ?
Cheers,
Zebity.
I think I'm going to get the minimum SSD and not even use it. Get an NVMe PCI card with a large and much more affordable SSD and boot from that. I'll just use file vault on it. Just to avoid dealing with the T2 chip.
At least x86 won't disappear anytime soon, they're never going to develop a 28+ core a series chip...
i'm a classically trained composer and have an audio engineering degree, no need to patronize me.
My largest project which runs with no hitch on a mini at 128 samples/buffer is a 100 track project which has live vocals, guitars, bass, samples strings, heavy synths like U-he Diva and recorded strings.
My 2008 8-core could not have handled that project in it's DREAMS, I had it, remember? I'm not talking out of my ass.
Mac Mini 6-core has roughly 3.5x the CPU performance of a Mac Pro.
The internal drive itself has as much throughput (IOPS) as ALL 4 DRIVE BAYS loaded with SATA3 SSDs combined in a single RAID0.
Heck, even my external thunderbolt 3 1TB drive has more throughput than all 4 Mac Pro 2008 drive bays combined. (and i have 4 of those ports on the back).
I could throw a latest GPU over eGPU enclosure on it too, and everything together would still be 50% the price of a BASELINE 2019 Mac Pro. (and still better than any 2008 combination). This should solve WoW concerns, because yes, Mini GPU is crap. But you didn't mention WoW, you mentioned Logic, so i couldn't have predicted that.
If you think and feel that 2008 Mac Pro is in any shape or form more powerful than the 2018 Mac Mini, you are doing something seriously wrong.
If you need a new Mac Pro 2019 for playing WoW, then more power to you. The hell do I care.
The ipad has an 8 core chip. There are some arm chips out there with hundreds of cores. I wouldnt be too sure about that. I'd guess within 2 years we will see arm CPUs, likely starting with the Mac Book.
The comments in this thread are interesting. When Apple releases a "Pro" device that is "pro" in name only, people complain about Apple just being lazy and greedy. But when Apple release a true "Pro" device and prices it accordingly, these very same people complain about a price that says, "this is for professionals".
Having said that, $999 for a simple monitor stand is just nuts no matter how you look at it. I could buy a Macbook Air, stand it in tent mode and lean the monitor against that for less money.
Having said that, $999 for a simple monitor stand is just nuts no matter how you look at it. I could buy a Macbook Air, stand it in tent mode and lean the monitor against that for less money.
I have a distinct craving to make an omelette with coarse grated cheddar cheese...
Kidding aside, wow, Apple showed up in spades! I’ll be set for at least a couple more years with my iMac Pro but will certainly give this new platform a closer look at version two, would be great to get back to an upgradable platform.
Great job Apple!
Kidding aside, wow, Apple showed up in spades! I’ll be set for at least a couple more years with my iMac Pro but will certainly give this new platform a closer look at version two, would be great to get back to an upgradable platform.
Great job Apple!
Have you ever tried an iMac i9 with 128 GB RAM? I would appreciate to hear your opinion.