MP 6,1 Prices need to drop on 2013 Mac Pro - Let's Go!

[tsialex]

It actually makes me pretty upset they've hoarded all of those. It's like the jerks who hoarded the GPUs during the stupid bitcoin mining frenzy. I'd love to see someone go liberate all of those Macs being held hostage. Also, I wonder how long they will keep them in service. They've caused the prices to become inflated by constricting the supply currently, but eventually I imagine they'll dump all of those on the used market. Their company alone was probably a major deciding factor for Apple making a rack mount version of the new Mac Pro and I assume they'll eventually buy up those to replace the 2013s.

I'm surprised that the CI market can make all this hoarding profitable. It's not like Apple will support MP6,1 forever and they have to obtain ROI around 3 years, at most. CI market needs current Xcode, the day that the current macOS release don't run with MP6,1 anymore, the MP6,1 usefulness with CI will die.

Imagine when they have to dump all those MP6,1 on the used market, prices will go down hard and instantly.

 

[rawweb]

I'm surprised that the CI market can make all this hoarding profitable. It's not like Apple will support MP6,1 forever and they have to obtain ROI around 3 years, at most. CI market needs current Xcode, the day that the current macOS release don't run with MP6,1 anymore, the MP6,1 usefulness with CI will die.

Imagine when they have to dump all those MP6,1 on the used market, prices will go down hard and instantly.

Saw this a few years ago and reading your post I'm still confused how this company makes money and what kind of customer base they have. Clearly the demand is extraordinary for them to pretty much buy up the entire supply chain from under customers. Could this be one of the leading reasons 6,1 prices have inflated so much in the past year?

 

[tsialex]

Saw this a few years ago and reading your post I'm still confused how this company makes money and what kind of customer base they have. Clearly the demand is extraordinary for them to pretty much buy up the entire supply chain from under customers. Could this be one of the leading reasons 6,1 prices have inflated so much in the past year?

Continuous Integration is needed for iOS development, every company that have a complex iOS application and have to support it needs a CI server for it's developers. For most companies, one, or several, CI server(s) hosted on a datacenter makes bandwidth and economical sense. There are several other uses for datacenter hosted Macs, but I could bet that it's the CI one that makes the big bucks.

AFAIK, CI and Mac hosting market are basically divided between MacStadium and CyberLynk (MacMiniVault/MacProVault).

 

[MisterAndrew]

It's hard to say how much they've impacted prices, but I think it's safe to say it's had an impact. There were never many Mac Pros available from resellers to begin with and Apple never heavily discounted them. Refurbished units were a better buy, but I think they were still more expensive than a lot of people were willing to pay for older hardware. I'm sure quite a few people have been hoping for steep discounts on new and refurbished units now that they're discontinued, but of course that's not going to happen since there aren't any (except for the few some of us have managed to find from more obscure sources). I think that places a higher demand on second hand units.

 

[MisterAndrew]

A seller listed 10 D700 units for $1,799.99 each on eBay today and someone quickly bought all of them. Same seller has some listed for $2,799.99 now.

Apple Mac Pro A1481 2013 Xeon E5-1620v2 3.5GHz 1TB SSD 32GB RAM FirePro D700 x2 | eBay

Mac Pro A1481. AMD FirePro D700 6GB GDDR5 (x2) Dedicated Graphics. 1TB SSD (Solid State Drive). Ethernet, HDMI, Headphone Jack, Thunderbolt 2 (Mini DisplayPort), USB 3.0. This Policy explains what Personal Data we collect from you, why we collect and process your personal data, when and with...

www.ebay.com

 

[MisterAndrew]

Okay, here's something really insane you probably have noticed about used Mac Pros. Models with D700 graphics are about $1000 to $1500 more than D300 & D500 units. Since 2017 the upgrade price for D700 graphics was only $200 (even less with education discount). So we have a price increase of 4-8x.

Here's an archive of the configuration page for the most recent base model (MD878LL/A):

Mac Pro

Mac Pro features up to 12 cores of processing power, high-performance graphics, and millions of possible configurations.

web.archive.org

 

[MacPoulet]

A seller listed 10 D700 units for $1,799.99 each on eBay today and someone quickly bought all of them. Same seller has some listed for $2,799.99 now.

Apple Mac Pro A1481 2013 Xeon E5-1620v2 3.5GHz 1TB SSD 32GB RAM FirePro D700 x2 | eBay

Mac Pro A1481. AMD FirePro D700 6GB GDDR5 (x2) Dedicated Graphics. 1TB SSD (Solid State Drive). Ethernet, HDMI, Headphone Jack, Thunderbolt 2 (Mini DisplayPort), USB 3.0. This Policy explains what Personal Data we collect from you, why we collect and process your personal data, when and with...

www.ebay.com

Pretty sure we know who bought those...

Found a non-functional Mac Pro on eBay. Tempted to get it and see if I can make it work. Could be a fun project.

 

[th0masp]

Re: D700. These have 6 GB of VRAM vs 3 on the D500 so they will be able to do stuff the lower models can't do. They are also likely certified for use with certain apps as the most viable configuration.

Still pretty tame graphics. It's like being 7 foot tall and looking down at a pair of midgets. One being two inches taller than the other does not make them a giant in your eyes.

 

[MisterAndrew]

MacRumors has buying guides for new Macs, so here's one I made for the Mac Pro 6,1. I'm listing them by GPUs, since I think those are the biggest price factors. Originally the CPU choices made the biggest price differences, but the CPU prices have dropped considerably (e.g. the 12-Core CPU is now only $100 to $150 more than the Quad-Core CPU on the used market.)

New or refurbished from authorized reseller:
D300 (e.g. ME253LL/A): Buy
D500 (e.g. MD878LL/A: Buy
D700 (e.g. MQGG2LL/A): Buy
AppleCare+: Buy, especially for D700.

New or refurbished from non-authorized reseller:
D300: Buy (target price: $2,000 to $3000 depending on configuration.)
D500: Buy (target price: $2,500 to $3500 depending on configuration.)
D700: Buy (target price: $3,000 to $4500 depending on configuration.)

Used with AppleCare+:
D300: Buy (target price: $2100 to $3000 depending on configuration and condition.)
D500: Buy (target price: $2300 to $3500 depending on configuration and condition.)
D700: Buy, but with caution if there is little warranty left. (target price: $2800 to $4500 depending on configuration and condition.)

Used with no warranty:
D300: Buy with caution. (target price: $1250 to $2500 depending on configuration and condition.)
D500: Buy with caution. (target price: $1500 to $3000 depending on configuration and condition.)
D700: Buy with caution. Be prepared for possibly expensive GPU repair costs. (target price: $2000 to $4000 depending on configuration and condition.)
Tip: Look for vendors offering their own or 3rd party warranty, especially for D700.

Replacement GPU price (each) from 3rd party Apple part suppliers:
D300: ~$550
D500: ~$750
D700: ~$1000

 

[MisterAndrew]

Pretty sure we know who bought those...

Found a non-functional Mac Pro on eBay. Tempted to get it and see if I can make it work. Could be a fun project.

That could be fun, but be careful. The parts are very expensive and you really should have the specialized tools from Apple. The service manual was posted in another thread. It has all the correct repair procedures.

 

[dtelena]

That could be fun, but be careful. The parts are very expensive and you really should have the specialized tools from Apple. The service manual was posted in another thread. It has all the correct repair procedures.

Hi, do you know exactly where is the thread where the service manual for the Mac Pro 2013 was posted? I really need this.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Hi, do you know exactly where is the thread where the service manual for the Mac Pro 2013 was posted? I really need this.

Mac Pro Cylinder led diagnostics

Hi I’m trying to find a manual on the diagnostics light inside the Mac Pro late 2013 a1481 (cylinder) currenlty I have only 4 less lighting up (out of 7) and Mac won’t start up No chime sound,usb backlit keyboard not getting Light. I’ve tested the voltage and it seems to get more then 10v on...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[dtelena]

Mac Pro Cylinder led diagnostics

Hi I’m trying to find a manual on the diagnostics light inside the Mac Pro late 2013 a1481 (cylinder) currenlty I have only 4 less lighting up (out of 7) and Mac won’t start up No chime sound,usb backlit keyboard not getting Light. I’ve tested the voltage and it seems to get more then 10v on...

forums.macrumors.com

Thanks so much !!!

 

[MacPoulet]

That could be fun, but be careful. The parts are very expensive and you really should have the specialized tools from Apple. The service manual was posted in another thread. It has all the correct repair procedures.

Will definitely take a look at the service manual. I reckon this could be a tad more complicated than the MacBook Air I built out of various spare parts.

Been finding weird eBay auctions for 2013 Mac Pros, where the prices are really low, and the description says to email them for the buy it now price. Seems like a scam...

 

[MisterAndrew]

I've seen those auctions too. They seem to be common in the UK.

This refurb was a good deal. It had a 6 core with 512 GB SSD and D700 graphics for $2,889. Looking at the archives it was last in stock in July.

Refurbished Mac Pro 3.5GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 : $2,889

Originally released December 2013. 3.5GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5. 16GB memory. 512GB PCIe-based flash storage. Dual AMD FirePro D700 graphics...

www.refurbstore.com

 

[Charadis]

It appears MacStadium bought up all the Mac Pros from OWC as well.

View attachment 913392
[automerge]1589000739[/automerge]
It sounds like they ordered ~4500 refurbished units in August.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158769816003461121

Never even heard of them before, but I was definitely expecting prices to come down more on these 6,1 Mac Pros than where they are now! Good job on the detective work

 

[MacPoulet]

I've seen those auctions too. They seem to be common in the UK.

This refurb was a good deal. It had a 6 core with 512 GB SSD and D700 graphics for $2,889. Looking at the archives it was last in stock in July.

Refurbished Mac Pro 3.5GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 : $2,889

Originally released December 2013. 3.5GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5. 16GB memory. 512GB PCIe-based flash storage. Dual AMD FirePro D700 graphics...

www.refurbstore.com

Yeah most of those auctions were UK-based. I thought eBay had a policy of only communicating through their service. It’s been a while since using eBay...

As for the Apple refurbs, do they even bother with the 2013 anymore? I just see the current one now.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Yeah most of those auctions were UK-based. I thought eBay had a policy of only communicating through their service. It’s been a while since using eBay...

As for the Apple refurbs, do they even bother with the 2013 anymore? I just see the current one now.

eBay does have a policy against off-site sales. They don't seem to do a good job policing though. I see tons of things on eBay all the time that are violating policies and even laws like government recalled items and banned chemicals. In fact the public cannot even report an item as illegal. eBay requires those reports to come from law enforcement. In that regard eBay is kind of a shady company.

There are no Apple refurbs left because MacStadium bought them all. It's possible Apple still has some of these Macs for warranty claims or whatever, so they may eventually sell some again, but it's hard to say. They sold off some 2012 Mac minis in the clearance section a couple years ago.

 

[MacPoulet]

eBay does have a policy against off-site sales. They don't seem to do a good job policing though. I see tons of things on eBay all the time that are violating policies and even laws like government recalled items and banned chemicals. In fact the public cannot even report an item as illegal. eBay requires those reports to come from law enforcement. In that regard eBay is kind of a shady company.

There are no Apple refurbs left because MacStadium bought them all. It's possible Apple still has some of these Macs for warranty claims or whatever, so they may eventually sell some again, but it's hard to say. They sold off some 2012 Mac minis in the clearance section a couple years ago.

I initially left eBay after getting duped by an experienced seller. Bought what was listed as a 2017 MacBook and when I received it, it was an older model. Took over a month to get a refund after sending it back.

I wonder how MacStadium will sell off their fleet when the time comes...

 

[MisterAndrew]

MacPoulet, you might want to check the bookstores at some of the universities. I found one at a local university yesterday. It's a 6 core D500 model. They had it marked down and it was their last one. I was able to get AppleCare+ for it. My mom expressed interest in one of them so I'll probably take one over to her. She just has a MBP right now so it'll be nice for her to have a desktop.

 

[Charadis]

MacPoulet, you might want to check the bookstores at some of the universities. I found one at a local university yesterday. It's a 6 core D500 model. They had it marked down and it was their last one. I was able to get AppleCare+ for it. My mom expressed interest in one of them so I'll probably take one over to her. She just has a MBP right now so it'll be nice for her to have a desktop.

Sweet, you found another 6,1? Any noticeable difference between the D500 compared to the D300? I didn't think you'd still be hunting haha.

On another note, finally got my unboxing vid uploaded the other night after a lot of stalling and putting off. Just lower your expectations lol

 

[MisterAndrew]

Sweet, you found another 6,1? Any noticeable difference between the D500 compared to the D300? I didn't think you'd still be hunting haha.

On another note, finally got my unboxing vid uploaded the other night after a lot of stalling and putting off. Just lower your expectations lol

I’ve been looking around a little, but I better stop so I don’t buy another. I was a little envious of y’all’s D700s. I haven’t been able to find a good deal on one of those.

I haven’t noticed a difference between the D300s and D500s yet. I haven’t done any extensive testing. I ran Geekbench on them and they’re head to head. The D500s pull ahead with LuxMark. I imagine the little extra VRAM would be helpful with video editing and the extra compute power will be helpful with scientific tasks. I don’t think there would be a big difference with the D700s either since I don’t do very much heavy video rendering. So I think those would probably just be a waste for me. The D500 system feels like it may be a little more snappy, but it’s hard to tell. The 6 core CPU has disappointing single core in Geekbench. It scored below 800 while the quad core is almost 900. The 6 core is probably faster in real world usage though. I read a good article that discusses how background processes can use up one or two cores so the 6 core has more cores available for apps. I’d like to upgrade them to 8 core.

 

[deconstruct60]

I'm surprised that the CI market can make all this hoarding profitable. It's not like Apple will support MP6,1 forever and they have to obtain ROI around 3 years, at most.

3 years why a "have to" ?

Apple probably isn't gone to put the 6,1 on the Vintage list for another 5 years. Extremely good chance will get at least 4 more years of macOS updates out of that.

If all doing is running a hypervisor underlying the whole thing ... even longer if the VM image is running in an abstracted container. ( The Mac Pro 6,1 is/was an VMWare supported configuration. It doesn't have to be bare metal rental. Whereas the newer T2 stuff has 'work arounds'. )

The other issue is that the rack mount Mac Pro 2019 models would be 2x as expensive so would their business model work if had to use those exclusively. The 2013's cost a large sum but the 2019 models would be an even larger sum with already price anchored monthly fees for a Mac Pro. ( cloud services business folks generally are looking for lower rates not higher ones. ) . In the context of perhaps didn't know how the rack units were going to scale for their business this 'old buy' was a somewhat sane move of "known costs'. ( They buy so much Apple should have clued them in but ...... sometimes Apple doesn't communicate like they should. )

Imagine when they have to dump all those MP6,1 on the used market, prices will go down hard and instantly.

Hasn't happened to the Mac Minis at any one point and they run even more of those than Mac Pros. also don't particularly have to dump them all in one place. Or can push subsets into storage "heads" with Linux. FreeNAS , etc.
[automerge]1589426580[/automerge]

....
There are no Apple refurbs left because MacStadium bought them all. It's possible Apple still has some of these Macs for warranty claims or whatever, so they may eventually sell some again, but it's hard to say. They sold off some 2012 Mac minis in the clearance section a couple years ago.

A small number of what mac Stadium bought could be going into their on private parts "boneyard" inventory for future use. I'd be surprised if Apple was actually going to be able to keep up with parts for the next 5 years given stretched the MP 2013 so long before started the Vintage/Obsolete countdown clock and had a steady stream of problems over the first 1-4 years of the device. The inventory on some parts is probably thin ( and can see Apple just trying to handing out refurb 2019's 3-4 years down the road as "substitute" for trying to fix a MP2013 if the active population drops low enough. )

 

[MacPoulet]

MacPoulet, you might want to check the bookstores at some of the universities. I found one at a local university yesterday. It's a 6 core D500 model. They had it marked down and it was their last one. I was able to get AppleCare+ for it. My mom expressed interest in one of them so I'll probably take one over to her. She just has a MBP right now so it'll be nice for her to have a desktop.

None of the university bookstores in Canada can sell Macs since about 2014. I actually work at a Canadian uni and have been looking through the surplus sites, that’s how I got my 4,1 for $150 four year streak ago.

Great find on that 6 core. How much was it?

 

[MisterAndrew]

None of the university bookstores in Canada can sell Macs since about 2014. I actually work at a Canadian uni and have been looking through the surplus sites, that’s how I got my 4,1 for $150 four year streak ago.

Great find on that 6 core. How much was it?

Why aren’t they able to sell them? It was a good savings over the $3,699 sticker price. They had it in stock for quite a while. I guess there weren’t many students looking to purchase one at that price. I’m surprised one of the departments didn’t snatch it up after they discounted it. Maybe because they’re closed. I called and left a voicemail and someone got back to me the next day. They said yeah we do have one of those we can sell. What time can you be here? I hurried up and went over there.