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Pro Display XDR - Owners Thread

joevt said:
XDR only needs cable or switch certified for DisplayPort 1.2 (HBR2 link rate). I don't think it supports HBR3 link rate except for Thunderbolt connection to non-DSC supporting GPUs.
Click to expand...
Now I'm confused, the Apple Tech doc states "Apple XDR manual says that "Pro Display XDR requires a GPU capable of supporting DisplayPort 1.4 with Display Stream Compression (DSC) and Forward Error Correction (FEC), or a GPU supporting DisplayPort 1.4 with HBR3 link rate and Thunderbolt Titan Ridge for native 6K resolution... You can connect Pro Display XDR to a Windows or Linux PC equipped with a GPU that supports DisplayPort over Thunderbolt or DisplayPort Alt-mode over USB-C."

The XDR native resolution of 6K 10bit @60Hz requires 38.20 Gbit/s which is doable with DP1.4 and DSC. How do you get that bandwidth with DP1.2?
 
Hello everyone,
I dont have more experience about this cables. What cable should I buy to connect displayport on my graphiccard pc? I dont have usb-c on my pc..
 
petardosh said:
Now I'm confused, the Apple Tech doc states "Apple XDR manual says that "Pro Display XDR requires a GPU capable of supporting DisplayPort 1.4 with Display Stream Compression (DSC) and Forward Error Correction (FEC), or a GPU supporting DisplayPort 1.4 with HBR3 link rate and Thunderbolt Titan Ridge for native 6K resolution... You can connect Pro Display XDR to a Windows or Linux PC equipped with a GPU that supports DisplayPort over Thunderbolt or DisplayPort Alt-mode over USB-C."

The XDR native resolution of 6K 10bit @60Hz requires 38.20 Gbit/s which is doable with DP1.4 and DSC. How do you get that bandwidth with DP1.2?
Click to expand...
DSC = Display Stream Compression. Apple uses DSC to compress 12bpc (36bpp) to 12bpp.
https://vesa.org/vesa-display-compression-codecs/#tab-dsc
You can see this on Intel Macs using the AGDCDiagnose command.
Code: 
Radeon RX 5700 XT

	Active Status Link0    DICT    6
		Link Index    0
		Connected    YES
		Signal Type    DP SST
		Reported Lane Count    4
		Reported Link Rate    54000
		Reported Link Spread    16

			Timing FB0    DICT    24
				Display Mode    80007007
				Refresh Rate (Calculated)    60 Hz
				Refresh Rate (Stored)    0.0 Hz
				Window (Active)    6016 x 3384
				Window (Scaled)    0 x 0
				Scaled Inset    0 x 0
				Pixel Clock    1286010000 Hz
				Scaler Flags    0
				Signal Config    0
				Blanking    80 x 132
				Border {left,right}    {0, 0}
				Border {top,bottom}    {0, 0}
				Sync Offset (h, v)    8 x 118
				Sync Pulse Width (h, v)    32, 8
				Sync Config (h, v)    + x -
				Num Links    2
				VB Extension    0
				OUTPUT: Pixel Encoding    1 (RGB444)
				OUTPUT: Bits Per Color Component    8 (12 bpc)
				OUTPUT: Colorimetry    1 (RGB)
				OUTPUT: Dynamic Range    1 (SDR)
				DSC: Num Slices    4 x 1
				DSC: Slice Dimensions    1504 x 3384
				DSC: Compressed BPP    12 bits, (192 bits*16) )
Here it's doing one 4 lane HBR2 connection (54000 = 5.4 Gbps; I guess link rate is measured in 0.1 Gbps?) using DSC @ 12 bpp.
1286010000 pixels per second * 12 bpp = 15.43212 Gbps

Without DSC, you get this:
Code: 
AMD10000Controller
			Connector@0	DICT	39
				Active Info 00 0	DICT	16
					Connected	Yes
					Dual Link	No
					Coherent	No
					MST	No
					Connection Type	DP
					Pixel Clock	648910 kHz
					Lane Count	4
					Link Clock	810000 kHz
					Link Bits	30 bpc
					CRTC Index	0
					PLL Index	6
					Backlight Freq	0 Hz
					Link Format	RGB
					DIG FE	A
					Number of Devices	1
					Timing	DICT	21
						Display Mode	8000700f
						Refresh Rate (Calculated)	60 Hz
						Refresh Rate (Stored)	0.0 Hz
						Window (Active)	3008 x 3384
						Window (Scaled)	6016 x 3384
						Scaled Inset	0 x 0
						Pixel Clock	648912960 Hz
						Scaler Flags	0
						Signal Config	0
						Blanking	68 x 132
						Border {left,right}	{0, 0}
						Border {top,bottom}	{0, 0}
						Sync Offset (h, v)	8 x 118
						Sync Pulse Width (h, v)	32, 8
						Sync Config (h, v)	+ x -
						Num Links	0
						VB Extension	0
						Pixel Encoding	1 (RGB444)
						Bits Per Color Component	4 (10 bpc)
						Colorimetry	1 (RGB)
						Dynamic Range	2 (HDR10)
			Connector@1	DICT	39
				Active Info 00 1	DICT	16
					Connected	Yes
					Dual Link	No
					Coherent	No
					MST	No
					Connection Type	DP
					Pixel Clock	648910 kHz
					Lane Count	4
					Link Clock	810000 kHz
					Link Bits	30 bpc
					CRTC Index	1
					PLL Index	6
					Backlight Freq	0 Hz
					Link Format	RGB
					DIG FE	C
					Number of Devices	1
					Timing	DICT	21
						Display Mode	a00
						Refresh Rate (Calculated)	60 Hz
						Refresh Rate (Stored)	0.0 Hz
						Window (Active)	3008 x 3384
						Window (Scaled)	6016 x 3384
						Scaled Inset	0 x 0
						Pixel Clock	648912960 Hz
						Scaler Flags	0
						Signal Config	0
						Blanking	68 x 132
						Border {left,right}	{0, 0}
						Border {top,bottom}	{0, 0}
						Sync Offset (h, v)	8 x 118
						Sync Pulse Width (h, v)	32, 8
						Sync Config (h, v)	+ x -
						Num Links	0
						VB Extension	0
						Pixel Encoding	1 (RGB444)
						Bits Per Color Component	4 (10 bpc)
						Colorimetry	1 (RGB)
						Dynamic Range	2 (HDR10)
So here we have two HBR3 connections (4 lanes of 810000 kHz but I think it's supposed to mean 8100000 kHz) each doing 3008x3384 @ 60Hz
648912960 pixels per second x 30bpp x 2 = 38.934600 Gbps.
 
Hi all, a very simple question (which I realize may have been answered in various ways on this thread, but, a simple yes/no would be great as it's still unclear to me):

I am upgrading from a 27" iMac 5K to the new MB Pro M1 Max with the Pro Display XDR.

In addition to the display, I'd like to connect the Logi 4K webcam, a gigabit ethernet adapter and a backup drive (presumably a USB-C SSD for quiet & speed, but could be some slow/cheap notebook external USB-C drive that is quiet)

I'd like to avoid the need for an additional TB dock for these connections

So the "simple question:" With the new M1 Pro/Max MacBooks, if I connect just a single cable to the Pro Display XDR, and connect all the accessories to the display, will I get sufficiently full speed performance from the accessories?

Thanks
 
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jse75 said:
Hi all, a very simple question (which I realize may have been answered in various ways on this thread, but, a simple yes/no would be great as it's still unclear to me):

I am upgrading from a 27" iMac 5K to the new MB Pro M1 Max with the Pro Display XDR.

In addition to the display, I'd like to connect the Logi 4K webcam, a gigabit ethernet adapter and a backup drive (presumably a USB-C SSD for quiet & speed, but could be some slow/cheap notebook external USB-C drive that is quiet)

I'd like to avoid the need for an additional TB dock for these connections

So the "simple question:" With the new M1 Pro/Max MacBooks, if I connect just a single cable to the Pro Display XDR, and connect all the accessories to the display, will I get sufficiently full speed performance from the accessories?
Click to expand...
XDR has USB 5 Gbps hub (≈460 MB/s). Good enough for everything except fast SSDs.
SATA SSD ≈540 MB/s
USB NVMe SSD ≈1060 MB/s
Thunderbolt NVMe ≈2800 MB/s

That is why I would include at least one Thunderbolt 4 dock/hub. You can connect up to two displays to it plus any number of USB 10 Gbps devices/adapters.
https://thunderbolttechnology.net/p...&field_prod_tb_version_value_many_to_one=tbv4

but if it's just for a backup drive then maybe you don't need it to be the fastest. It will certainly be faster than a backup drive on the network.
 
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joevt said:
I don't have an M1 so I haven't looked into it. My idea would be to use Hopper disassembler or similar to find the 6016 limit (either in kext or display framework) then alter it somehow (maybe with a kext that works like Lilu and WhateverGreen - can they be compiled for Apple Silicon?)
Click to expand...
Thanks.

I've actually tried to do that but can't even find the limit referenced anywhere. Then there is the issue of inserting the kext, which is no longer as functional as it once was.

Fingers crossed the hardware limit is adjusted for the M1 Max!
 
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New work machine is a 16" MBP i9 64GB with the 5500M 8GB. Drives a single XDR just fine without spinning up the fans. What's the word on how it might handle a second XDR?
 
Does anyone know what the "correct" screen brightness is for watching HDR content?

After I got a new M1 Max MBP I was shocked / impressed that the screen in the MBP is quite a bit better at consuming HDR content than the Pro Display XDR, or at least far more vibrant and with better contrast (to be expected I suppose with 568 vs 10000 backlights), and I ended up disappearing down the EDR rabbit-hole where I learned that your screen-brightness affects the standard white-point of all your HDR content.

In other words if you put your screen brightness to 100%, it treats 500 nits as 1.0 AKA 0xFFFFFF / 255,255,255 in SDR, and you are then limited to the range [0.0...3.2] where any HDR channel values over 3.2 will get clipped, which could end up causing bright values to lose their colour and tend towards white.

Meanwhile if you set your screen brightness to 100 nits, then suddenly you can display content all the way up to 16x brighter than SDR without experiencing clipping.

Prior to this I had always put the XDR at full brightness before watching any content, thinking that was best, but now I'm not so sure if that's the right thing to do, or if it's a complete "to taste" thing where there is no real correct answer.

It seems to me that by reducing the screen brightness, you can get the Pro Display XDR looking closer to the MBP, but it seems very subjective.
 
jmho said:
Does anyone know what the "correct" screen brightness is for watching HDR content?

After I got a new M1 Max MBP I was shocked / impressed that the screen in the MBP is quite a bit better at consuming HDR content than the Pro Display XDR, or at least far more vibrant and with better contrast (to be expected I suppose with 568 vs 10000 backlights), and I ended up disappearing down the EDR rabbit-hole where I learned that your screen-brightness affects the standard white-point of all your HDR content.

In other words if you put your screen brightness to 100%, it treats 500 nits as 1.0 AKA 0xFFFFFF / 255,255,255 in SDR, and you are then limited to the range [0.0...3.2] where any HDR channel values over 3.2 will get clipped, which could end up causing bright values to lose their colour and tend towards white.

Meanwhile if you set your screen brightness to 100 nits, then suddenly you can display content all the way up to 16x brighter than SDR without experiencing clipping.

Prior to this I had always put the XDR at full brightness before watching any content, thinking that was best, but now I'm not so sure if that's the right thing to do, or if it's a complete "to taste" thing where there is no real correct answer.

It seems to me that by reducing the screen brightness, you can get the Pro Display XDR looking closer to the MBP, but it seems very subjective.
Click to expand...
New Pro Display XDR owner (my M1 Max 16" hasn't arrived yet). I keep the brightness on the standard Pro Display XDR (P3 - 1600 nits) preset down around what I would estimate is about 90 - 100 nits. Switching to the HDR Video preset results in a very similar white point and luminance per the calibrated eyeball.

I agree that turning the brightness on the standard preset up to 100% (500 nits on SDR material) is going to clip some HDR content (aside from the obvious problem of searing your retinas unless you are outside).
 
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jmho said:
Does anyone know what the "correct" screen brightness is for watching HDR content?

After I got a new M1 Max MBP I was shocked / impressed that the screen in the MBP is quite a bit better at consuming HDR content than the Pro Display XDR, or at least far more vibrant and with better contrast (to be expected I suppose with 568 vs 10000 backlights), and I ended up disappearing down the EDR rabbit-hole where I learned that your screen-brightness affects the standard white-point of all your HDR content.

In other words if you put your screen brightness to 100%, it treats 500 nits as 1.0 AKA 0xFFFFFF / 255,255,255 in SDR, and you are then limited to the range [0.0...3.2] where any HDR channel values over 3.2 will get clipped, which could end up causing bright values to lose their colour and tend towards white.

Meanwhile if you set your screen brightness to 100 nits, then suddenly you can display content all the way up to 16x brighter than SDR without experiencing clipping.

Prior to this I had always put the XDR at full brightness before watching any content, thinking that was best, but now I'm not so sure if that's the right thing to do, or if it's a complete "to taste" thing where there is no real correct answer.

It seems to me that by reducing the screen brightness, you can get the Pro Display XDR looking closer to the MBP, but it seems very subjective.
Click to expand...
I’m not clear on how the mac and xdr handle this situation, but it’s not typical for highlights to simply clip when watching HDR content. Tone mapping is supposed to be applied to retain some detail in the highlights.
 
syndr0me said:
New work machine is a 16" MBP i9 64GB with the 5500M 8GB. Drives a single XDR just fine without spinning up the fans. What's the word on how it might handle a second XDR?
Click to expand...
I also have a work i9 although slightly weaker config, connected to 2 XDRs. It’s mostly ok but doing anything heavy like compiling or running simulators might cause it to lag a bit and spin the fans.
It’s manageable and your config might be a bit more capable.
 
Maxim Glukhov said:
I also have a work i9 although slightly weaker config, connected to 2 XDRs. It’s mostly ok but doing anything heavy like compiling or running simulators might cause it to lag a bit and spin the fans.
It’s manageable and your config might be a bit more capable.
Click to expand...
Good to know, thank you. I gave it a trial run by connecting the XDR and my old LG 5K, and while it did drive it okay, fans were maxed out doing nothing but a google meet with the Logitech 4K camera. Bummer.
 
syndr0me said:
Good to know, thank you. I gave it a trial run by connecting the XDR and my old LG 5K, and while it did drive it okay, fans were maxed out doing nothing but a google meet with the Logitech 4K camera. Bummer.
Click to expand...
When I am on Zoom meetings with both displays connected and a logi 4k cam I don’t hear the fans given I’m not doing anything else. Maybe the LG 5k is the problem?
Try a video call with each display only to isolate the problem
 
Anybody know of a dummy HDMI/TB3 video device that will give the same resolution as the XDR? I've got my M1 Mac Mini running headless and access it via the built-in VNC. Works nice in full screen since I can swipe to it like a space. But the biggest I can get the resolution is 4K. Would love to be able to have it fill the XDR screen.
 
I am looking for feedback on how to achieve the best playback of 24 fps 10-bit color, 4k HDR video in HEVC format on the XDR Pro Display.

I'm interested in suggestions for system settings and playback tools to get the most fluid playback and most accurate color reproduction.

I'm not a video pro, so my apologies up front if this contains much video noobery.

My setup with the XDR Pro Display is a 2018 Mac Mini 3.2 6-core i7 with 64gb RAM and the Blackmagic RX 580 eGPU in macOS Monterey.

I've tried playback in VLC and mpv.

mpv seems to be more configurable and provide better performance than VLC. I installed that with brew and have discarded VLC for now.

Apart from color, my biggest concern is dropping frames.

In System Preferences -> Displays, if use scaled display and choose "looks like" 1504x846 or 1920x1080 mvp seems to not drop any frames. (You can view video playback stats by hitting the 'i' key)

However, in the default, looks like 2560x1440 or scaled "More space" looks like 3008x1692, mpv starts dropping frames in output but not decode. Not a lot but a every few seconds it is dropping one. In high motion scenes maybe every second.

If I understand it correctly, HEVC decode must be done by the CPU. This has something to do with Mojave's introduction of Metal which prevents normal use of AMD Polaris GPUs from doing HEVC decoding.

Thus, there is no normal way to make macOS decode H.265 using the AMD card without some OpenCore hackery, also mentioned here.


Some questions I've had:
  1. If the video is at 3840x1604. What should I have the display resolution set to? Default or a scaled setting?
  2. Should Night shift and True Tone be disabled to ensure they don't affect color repro?
  3. The Apple support page on Playing HDR video on macOS (updated two days ago):

    HDR content might play at resolutions no greater than 1080p on Intel-based Mac mini, Intel-based MacBook Pro, and Intel-based MacBook Air models, depending on the HDR content and the display on which it is viewed.

    Does Apple mean the video won't play at all, or that it won't playback at full frame rate?
  4. That same page shows a screenshot where HDR can be enabled and disabled. This setting is not available on the XDR, because HDR is enabled by default, correct?
  5. If mpv is reporting dropped frames at output, is this the same thing as render described in this issue in the mpv repo?
  6. The above issue describes use the --macos-force-dedicated-gpu option, is it correct to expect this to offload more processing to the eGPU and result in less CPU fan during playback of this media?
  7. Is anyone running OpenCore purely to achieve AMD GPU HEVC decode? What's that like?
Any feedback on this is appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Quick question if I may - I have been offered to buy an Apple Pro Display + stand for $3k, which is less than half of the retail price. Monitor is now new but like new.

I do not use the monitor for work / professional use, so it will be mostly buying a beautiful / well designed monitor which I can keep for the next 5-7 years.

Given the attractive price, would you consider to buy if you were in my shoes? While still expensive compared to other monitors even at that price, there are some unique feautures I like (building quality, contrast, HDR capabilities, etc).

Many thanks for your views!
 
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gustar said:
Quick question if I may - I have been offered to buy an Apple Pro Display + stand for $3k, which is less than half of the retail price. Monitor is now new but like new.

I do not use the monitor for work / professional use, so it will be mostly buying a beautiful / well designed monitor which I can keep for the next 5-7 years.

Given the attractive price, would you consider to buy if you were in my shoes? While still expensive compared to other monitors even at that price, there are some unique feautures I like (building quality, contrast, HDR capabilities, etc).

Many thanks for your views!
Click to expand...

It is a high quality GUI monitor even for video use. It’s not a reference monitor. If for $3k you keep it for 5+ years, I think it’s a steal. And you get the stand.

I’d test it out though before I bought it.
 
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gustar said:
Quick question if I may - I have been offered to buy an Apple Pro Display + stand for $3k, which is less than half of the retail price. Monitor is now new but like new.

I do not use the monitor for work / professional use, so it will be mostly buying a beautiful / well designed monitor which I can keep for the next 5-7 years.

Given the attractive price, would you consider to buy if you were in my shoes? While still expensive compared to other monitors even at that price, there are some unique feautures I like (building quality, contrast, HDR capabilities, etc).

Many thanks for your views!
Click to expand...
If I could get this deal I would buy it in a heartbeat. On eBay the display goes for $4k-$4.6k used, and you’re still looking at having to buy a dock (which isn’t really available on eBay recently).
 
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- rob - said:
I am looking for feedback on how to achieve the best playback of 24 fps 10-bit color, 4k HDR video in HEVC format on the XDR Pro Display.

I'm interested in suggestions for system settings and playback tools to get the most fluid playback and most accurate color reproduction.

I'm not a video pro, so my apologies up front if this contains much video noobery.

My setup with the XDR Pro Display is a 2018 Mac Mini 3.2 6-core i7 with 64gb RAM and the Blackmagic RX 580 eGPU in macOS Monterey.

I've tried playback in VLC and mpv.

mpv seems to be more configurable and provide better performance than VLC. I installed that with brew and have discarded VLC for now.

Apart from color, my biggest concern is dropping frames.

In System Preferences -> Displays, if use scaled display and choose "looks like" 1504x846 or 1920x1080 mvp seems to not drop any frames. (You can view video playback stats by hitting the 'i' key)

However, in the default, looks like 2560x1440 or scaled "More space" looks like 3008x1692, mpv starts dropping frames in output but not decode. Not a lot but a every few seconds it is dropping one. In high motion scenes maybe every second.

If I understand it correctly, HEVC decode must be done by the CPU. This has something to do with Mojave's introduction of Metal which prevents normal use of AMD Polaris GPUs from doing HEVC decoding.

Thus, there is no normal way to make macOS decode H.265 using the AMD card without some OpenCore hackery, also mentioned here.


Some questions I've had:
  1. If the video is at 3840x1604. What should I have the display resolution set to? Default or a scaled setting?
  2. Should Night shift and True Tone be disabled to ensure they don't affect color repro?
  3. The Apple support page on Playing HDR video on macOS (updated two days ago):

    HDR content might play at resolutions no greater than 1080p on Intel-based Mac mini, Intel-based MacBook Pro, and Intel-based MacBook Air models, depending on the HDR content and the display on which it is viewed.

    Does Apple mean the video won't play at all, or that it won't playback at full frame rate?
  4. That same page shows a screenshot where HDR can be enabled and disabled. This setting is not available on the XDR, because HDR is enabled by default, correct?
  5. If mpv is reporting dropped frames at output, is this the same thing as render described in this issue in the mpv repo?
  6. The above issue describes use the --macos-force-dedicated-gpu option, is it correct to expect this to offload more processing to the eGPU and result in less CPU fan during playback of this media?
  7. Is anyone running OpenCore purely to achieve AMD GPU HEVC decode? What's that like?
Any feedback on this is appreciated.
Click to expand...
1. Visually speaking it's probably a wash. The XDR PPI is very high and video content simply doesn't benefit from pixel perfect scaling in the same way that synthetic content does.
2. Yes, you should disable these settings if you are looking for accuracy. If you truly prefer these settings on, tho, there's nothing wrong with that either.
 
Do IINA and VLC support HDR playback? I'm using a M1 Pro Macbook connected to the XDR display. I've heard only QuickTime and Chrome output HDR. And should I use the HDR specific preset when watching HDR content?
 
gustar said:
Quick question if I may - I have been offered to buy an Apple Pro Display + stand for $3k, which is less than half of the retail price. Monitor is now new but like…
Click to expand...
Absolutely. however, the pricing is almost to Good to be true. Is the seller is a stranger I’d have my skeptical glasses on.

If it is like new, it is probably covered by Apple Care. I’d def look up the serial regardless.

rkuo said:
1. Visually speaking it's probably a wash. The XDR PPI is very high and video content simply doesn't benefit from pixel perfect scaling in the same way that synthetic content does.
2. Yes, you should disable these settings if you are looking for accuracy. If you truly prefer these settings on, tho, there's nothing wrong with that either.
Click to expand...
I’m confused why it would drop frames and if there is benefit to scaling to be closer to the intended 4K res.
 
Last edited:
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- rob - said:
Absolutely. however, the pricing is almost to Good to be true. Is the seller is a stranger I’d have my skeptical glasses on.

If it is like new, it is probably covered by Apple Care. I’d def look up the serial regardless.


I’m confused why it would drop frames and if there is benefit to scaling to be closer to the intended 4K res.
Click to expand...
Anything I'm saying here is speculation, but I'll do my best.

There's a fairly obvious bottleneck when using an external GPU in that if decode is happening on the CPU, then huge raw frames of data have to be sent across the narrow thunderbolt bus. So what you're doing here is very very hard on your configuration.

Scaled is always much harder on the GPU due to how macOS 2x supersamples the desktop to reduce scaling artifacts. So going native on that will be more performant.

One thing you could try is right clicking on your video player and clicking "open in low resolution". That might help.

Just some things to try.
 
So I bought a PRO Display XDR and received it today.

Question I have for the forum is the following.

Is there a possibility this will be updated to a 120HZ screen soon because that would....

I am hooking this up to a M1 MacBook Pro currently and I like it so far I just have to admit that I noticed the tad bit of delay from just using the MacBook Pro.
 
Man on the moon said:
So I bought a PRO Display XDR and received it today.

Question I have for the forum is the following.

Is there a possibility this will be updated to a 120HZ screen soon because that would....

I am hooking this up to a M1 MacBook Pro currently and I like it so far I just have to admit that I noticed the tad bit of delay from just using the MacBook Pro.
Click to expand...
120hz had not spun out across so many Apple devices when XDR was released.

Still, some people did complain the monitor was not 120hz back then, so can see why this would be a bigger question now that MacOs contains animations at that speed.

Is it correct that there are no Apple designed, or Apple partner designed external displays that can show MacOs in 120hz? Is it possible to extend MacOS Monterey to a newer iPad Pro and see 120 on it?

What pc-oriented display is the best 120hz used in combo with a MBP M1 Max?

Video folks, correct me if I’m wrong, but I would be surprised if the XDR were updated for 120 this next year, only because the intent is largely for creating and editing media that does not require a refresh rate like this.
 
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