PSA: you probably don’t need 32 or 64Gb RAM unless you know you need it.

[aevan]

AFAIK. None have Fusion projects embedded in the time line. Do you know of one?

Still love you man for your often insightful contributions to this forum.

Haha, thanks.... I'm glad it's at least somewhat useful.

As for Fusion, sorry, I don't have experience with that. However, if you're wondering about RAM usage, what you can look for is Fusion on M1 Macs, because these max out at 16Gb - and I see there's quite a few of these:

From what I saw, it really depends on the size of your project - which seems to be the theme for 3D and CAD apps. While 16 is quite fine for a lot of work, If you have large projects, you might need 32 or even 64Gb. I would say that if you're a hobbyist, 16 is fine but if you live from your 3D/CAD work, getting more might be a wise choice (even if you don't need it now, perhaps your projects will grow). But at that point, you could also consider M1 Max for GPU rendering, and then even more RAM and.... the list goes on.

As with many cases, 3D/CAD is a world where it all comes down to project sizes. How many assets, polygons, textures, etc. are you working on simultaneously. That doesn't mean you need to max out your computer, it just means you need to realistically look at your workload. Comparing to people on YT is tricky, because people there usually give advice like "maximum everything" - because that makes them seem more serious. In reality, most creatives I've met don't care that much about specs as streamers (or people on forums)

 

[ASX]

I upgraded my system to Intel Alderlake 12900K and it's much better than the 5900X in terms of snappiness. I would wait for Alderlake laptops (early 2022). They will be much better than M1 Pro/Max Macbooks and have native x86 compability.

Autum next year Intel Raptor Lake will be released. Another huge step up for multicore performance.

 

[aevan]

I would wait for Alderlake laptops (early 2022). They will be much better than M1 Pro/Max Macbooks and have native x86 compability.

First of all, you don’t know that they will have much better performance. They are still not out, and you can’t judge based on desktop performance.

Second - they won’t run macOS. A lot of people prefer it to Windows, and some need it for work.

Third - this is a thread about 16 vs 32 vs 64Gb RAM on the new MacBooks. Your PC preference is better suited for a different thread.

You’ve been consistently giving bad advice, due to your preference for Windows machines. This is not a Mac vs PC thread, so I will kindly ask you to take these comments to a different thread - or make a new one.

 

[ASX]

But im still thinking why windows 11 is using much less ram for more work than mac os 12.X.X. So i have to decide. Which is better. Mac OS or Windows. If there is a new cpu out there, its going into my consideration.

 

[antst]

OS should never use so much memory like on the 16 gb model. It slows down then. I have never seen such an extensive ram usage like on mac os. 4-5 gbyte used for a mac with stock os config, without any addtional apps started, if you start the browser with a few tabs open, it goes up to 12-13 gbytes + 1.3 gbytes reserved.

I can open a lot more tabs on windows 11 and it's using only 7.5 of 32 gbytes ram. No slow down.

Then windows sucks Leaving unused memory is non optimal. As there are always something which can be accelerated by using memory which is not used by apps.

 

[tdbrown75]

Then windows sucks Leaving unused memory is non optimal. As there are always something which can be accelerated by using memory which is not used by apps.

This is correct. Windows does indeed, suck.

Tim

 

[antst]

In fact, OSX still has a way to go. Best memory subsystem at the moment is on Linux (although it has some shortcomings for desktop/phone use), and on my Linux box with 128GB I never see more than 4GB free.
On my MPB I see 8GB free out of 64GB, there is still way for improvement.

 

[antst]

It's really a stupid advice.

My mom can afford buying the maximum configuration but she only do web-surfing and reading email. She don't need 64Gb of RAM in the next 10 years.

But if she is going to use this laptop for 5 years, trust me, in 4+ years here experience will be much better, if she gets now 64GB.
Web-development went berserk. You can have one browser tab to consume 3GB of RAM (seen that!)
And things are getting worse.

 

[ASX]

If macos getting slower whe using high amount of ram and windows doesn't. Of course Windows sucks. Very objective .

Last Windows version did you use?

 

[antst]

That usage is quite fine for 16Gb RAM, because of how memory management works (system moves or compresses data around to make sure what you’re currently working on has sufficient resources). You’re nowhere near needing more with that usage and if these are your main spenders, you could probably get by with 8Gb, honestly. System will be quite snappy. You could run twice the number of apps with such usage and system would still be snappy with 16Gb.

This is based on what you wrote above, of course, there are plenty of development workflows that make good use of more than 16Gb. It depends on the projects, number of them you want open simultaneously, etc.

You need more RAM in case you need to have large files loaded into memory, so we’re talking about 20+ Gb projects that need to be loaded in entirety (so, not apps, but open projects) while you work on them (think about loading a ton of instruments in an audio project, for example). Or if you have intense swapping (the process of fast, constant moving of data in and out of memory).

Compression is not free. There is no free cheese

 

[Fthree]

My favorite is when people talk about having 50-75 tabs open on safari at one time… wtf

 

[ASX]

If im looking for ddr5 ram or gpus it's pretty common to have all shops in a bookmark folder. I open them all at once.

 

[macintoshmac]

My favorite is when people talk about having 50-75 tabs open on safari at one time… wtf

The ones who never did any kind of research in their lives may never understand how this happens.

It is quite common to have an entire floor smeared with 15-20 books, all with several post-it notes and bookmarks, and more than one notebook open, with one human sitting amidst it all, going through all that information and making notes in those notebooks for further assimilation and compilation.

It is not going to be surprising that when taken to the digital world, that physical world will be replicated in several open tabs across multiple browsers, even with multiple monitors, and more than one apps for taking notes.

I do not know when will people acknowledge the existence of workflows that are not theirs as equal and valid and not scoff or laugh at them. Only goes to show their own mindset that needs more exposure.

 

[antst]

If macos getting slower whe using high amount of ram and windows doesn't. Of course Windows sucks. Very objective .

Last Windows version did you use?

Love windows? And now imagine how better windows would be if they would use hardware to the maximum! )))

 

[ASX]

If you can afford then it will use maximum hardware. I would appreciate a Macbook with x86 cpu + flicker free matte, screen + socket for nvme ssd + hdmi 2.1 + usb-a ports for my wireless mouse dongle and other stuff. And of course an update for some functions to make it much more intuitive.

 

[aevan]

Compression is not free. There is no free cheese

Never said it’s free, just that most users won’t notice it at all. We’re talking about imperceptible differences. macOS is doing a good job at managing memory whether you have 8, 16, 32 or 64 or even more RAM, and these new MacBooks are fast. You don’t need 32 or 64Gb to have a smooth system, you need it if your workflow demands it - meaning, super big files and projects.

 

[ASX]

Define fast? If it's not instant you are wrong. The mac book pro 2021 has to much delay when its near the maximum ram capacity. Is this fast for you?

My 12900K is instant. This is fast. I opened a few apps. It's so fast i could only dream of when using m1 pro/max.

 

[antst]

Never said it’s free, just that most users won’t notice it at all. macOS is doing a good job at managing memory, and the system is fast. You don’t need 32 or 64Gb to have a smooth system, you need it if your workflow demands it - meaning, super big files and projects.

Actually, it is safe to say that 10 years ago macOS had slowest virtual memory management from "big 3" (osx, linux, windows). But they clearly did a lot of work in that area over last 10 years, so, maybe it is not the case anymore. I just didn't had reasons to dig into it since 2011 or so, so can't have educated answer about current state.

 

[smirking]

It is not going to be surprising that when taken to the digital world, that physical world will be replicated in several open tabs across multiple browsers, even with multiple monitors, and more than one apps for taking notes.

I do not know when will people acknowledge the existence of workflows that are not theirs as equal and valid and not scoff or laugh at them. Only goes to show their own mindset that needs more exposure.

Some years ago I was invited to participate in a user study at Google. They had me sit at a computer with an eye tracking sensor and various kinds of tracking utilities installed into the computer. The researcher gave me scenarios from his script. I froze each time. I had no idea what to do. The scenarios were nothing even close to my normal usage pattern.

I kept saying things like, "Well, I'd choose C since I have no choice, but that's not what I'd do."

After 30 minutes of me giving non answers, he got frustrated and just told me to pretend that I wasn't being instructed and do whatever I would normally. So I did. I opened dozens of tabs and clicked at anything that looked even remotely relevant, scanned the page, and closed half of them immediately.

He buried his heads in his hands and told me to stop. He had to reconfigure his software to track multiple windows and it proceeded to crash when it couldn't track all the windows I was opening. At that point he gave up. He paid me and said I could go.

This was about 10 years ago and I haven't been invited back since. Up until that point, I got invited to be in user studies a few times a year.

 

[maccompaq]

When the iMac Pro is offered next year, I will buy the 64 GB version so it can run X-Plane 11 and X-Plane 12 well. Does anyone have experience running this program with various amounts of RAM?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Never said it’s free, just that most users won’t notice it at all. We’re talking about imperceptible differences. macOS is doing a good job at managing memory whether you have 8, 16, 32 or 64 or even more RAM, and these new MacBooks are fast. You don’t need 32 or 64Gb to have a smooth system, you need it if your workflow demands it - meaning, super big files and projects.

There are likely people still pumping the gas in their car before they start it and storing their skillets in the oven, just because that’s what they’ve always done. It takes some time to understand that the world has changed.

 

[ASX]

The macbook (especially 16 gb ram model) is like a car with too much weight for the engine. It tends to quick overload, then it slows down.

Too many tabs for the silver macbook pro 2021:

 

[antst]

Never said it’s free, just that most users won’t notice it at all. We’re talking about imperceptible differences. macOS is doing a good job at managing memory whether you have 8, 16, 32 or 64 or even more RAM, and these new MacBooks are fast. You don’t need 32 or 64Gb to have a smooth system, you need it if your workflow demands it - meaning, super big files and projects.

"imperceptible" does depend on memory use pattern by apps. It can be heavy performance hit. It can get even to incompressible. it all depends on what and how is used on computer. It is not a silver bullet. One of the most valid use-cases (and I suspect aim of this feature) is a browsing with 50 open tabs ). For that it work nice! Till it encounters few web-sites/tabs which developers coded with brain off

 

[zhenya]

I have a base 14" that I've been using to see how it compares to my 2019 iMac with 64GB RAM. My typical workflow is 50-60+ tabs open among 2-3 browsers, several programs from Office running, plus several CC programs - typically Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop and Premier Pro. On my iMac I usually idle at about 55GB used. So far, while the MBP is running in the yellow, with 8-10GB paged, I've not noticed any hiccups at all, even pressure testing it by opening the entirety of one of my 300+ page, 20+ chapter (separate files) books in InDesign with plenty of graphics.

I still have a 32GB model on order because I don't like to be this close to the edge right from day 1, but this machine is astonishing.

FWIW I don't know how anyone could consider Windows 'fast' in comparison to any modern Mac. My Thinkpad Extreme with an i7 and 32GB of RAM sits mostly unused all day because it is comparatively so slow and laggy that I can't stand to do anything on it that doesn't require Windows.

 

[antst]

Swapping on M1 Macs is fast, really fast. It does slowdown. but you have to really look to notice it and it depends on use. It is combination of really fast SSD speed on one side and, most likely, propietary NVMe controller (which is embedded to CPU) is highly specialized and tuned for this use-case.