I like this sarcasm. Brand bias might have something to do about it as well.
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iPad Pro PWM Confirmed - 2024 IPP - OLED - Keep those 2018 12.9 IPP’s 🤬
- Thread starter Maven1975
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Im going to give it a try.. Some devices bother me and others don't. The last device that did was the LG c3 42" tv... The only mobile device that really affected me was the iPhone 13 Pro Max..... Im going to give it a try...
Certainly worth an attempt. The 12.9 LED bothers my eyes quite a bit. I hope this is better than that. No real information on it yet, that I’ve seen. One Chinese video that seemed to say the frequency was in the 400-500 range but then the Tech Chap video saying it was higher than the 12.9 LED, which is 6401. Those obviously conflict. Waiting for something more concrete. Haven’t seen a review from Notebookcheck and they usually cover PWM.
Not much for me. Would just have to get a 12.9” Air w/cellular, keyboard, and pencil. Not a drastic cost saving. The iPad is pretty critical for my workflow, traveling and marking up docs + using a lot of we -based apps w/out reliable Wi-Fi.
If it were a Samsung tablet, no one would bother talking about it.
I remember reading one of ross young's report, saying that future OLED panel for phone/tablet/laptop will be PWM free by 2026
Cancelled my order, not worth the hassle of returns. Thanks!
I think its a case of finding ways to cope because you basically miss out on new tech otherwise. Most screens nowadays are OLED. Also mainstream don't really care. And even if the masses have symptoms not many will realise or be knowledgable about whats going on.
I suffer from it with iPhones. And ultimately thats when i'm forced to put my phone down and/or use the iPad or my Mac to carry on.
My eyes go completely blurry and i can't focus my vision until i pause or switch screens.
Its one of the reason i bought a Mini-LED iPad recently even though i knew the new OLED iPads were coming.
All heavy work is now done on my iPad and Mac, whilst the iPhone is basically for short bursts of email, messaging, browsing etc.
The frustrating thing is there are workarounds but Apple hasn't implemented. My LG OLED TV is perfectly usable for me, and thats because LG use an alternative approach to combat PWM where i don't feel the effect as much
OnePlus have added DC dimming and increased freq of PWM (2160Hz) with the latest OnePlus 12
So there are ways around it but Apple and Samsung just haven't bothered. Doesn't help that very few tech journalists point this issue out.
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I hear you, but using a device that can give you compromised vision which can lead to migraines (in my case) isn't viable. I really wish it was - I've tried all the workarounds but ultimately I end up feeling like crap for days.
Every year since the X, I end up trying all the OLED iPhones but always have to return them. This year I only tried the 15 Pro Max and was fine for the couple of hours I used it on release day - zero symptoms. But the next day my vision was so messed up and I was very light sensitive, I thought I'd damaged my eyes!
I also cannot use the LCD iPads with P3 colour while the iPad 9 is fine with SRGB. I had a few days of mild eye strain using two studio monitors at work but I'm OK now. I'm totally fine with my OLED Samsung TV and iPhone 11 🤷♂️. I don't believe it's just PWM, it's software and dithering as well. Plus there is a screen lottery - it's a nightmare.
There are many forums and YouTube videos with thousands of post/comments where people are joining the dots, and some tech reviewers are starting to acknowledge the problem. The fact that Chinese manufacturers are starting to use eye heath features as a selling point is helpful. I'm certain the big tech companies are swerving the issue to avoid any future lawsuits as this might become a heath issue. There's no way they can admit that their technology can trigger physical unwellness in some users.
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Are you sure it's an alternative approach and not just a fact that you view TVs from a distance?
I think all OLEDs have PWM.
I just wanted to reply and say this is a very nice, reasonable response.
There just are not many/any good studies on this issues. One paper covers a little of the anecdotal evidence.
Miller N, Leon F, Tan J, Irvin L. Flicker: A review of temporal light modulation stimulus, responses, and measures. Lighting Research & Technology. 2023;55(1):5-35. doi:10.1177/14771535211069482
What we need is a formal study done. I'd be happy to do it if someone wanted to fund me and a team for the 5 years it would take to run a good study. Anyone have around $4,000,000 they want to send my way (that's about what a 5 year NIH grant ends up costing)?
I'd make all data publicly available.
I just wanted to reply and say this is a very nice, reasonable response.
There just are not many/any good studies on this issues. One paper covers a little of the anecdotal evidence.
Miller N, Leon F, Tan J, Irvin L. Flicker: A review of temporal light modulation stimulus, responses, and measures. Lighting Research & Technology. 2023;55(1):5-35. doi:10.1177/14771535211069482
What we need is a formal study done. I'd be happy to do it if someone wanted to fund me and a team for the 5 years it would take to run a good study. Anyone have around $4,000,000 they want to send my way (that's about what a 5 year NIH grant ends up costing)?
It’s funny you mention this. I have a friend who worked in research for a major medical device manufacturer (hearing aids, etc). A while ago he told me a story from when they tried to do an internal PWM vision study to see if this was a market for future products. They ended up scrapping the study earlier than planned.
The Problem: the entirety of the subject pool they found for the study, who self identified as PWM sensitive, comes from self-diagnosis. During their shortened study, more than half of subjects can’t reliably identify a PWM display vs a non-PWM. Some when told in the study which stimuli was the PWM/non-PWM, they would get angry (after saying they felt eye strain from the non-PWM stimuli) and insist the study made a mistake.
I'd be sad for people who claim to have issues when they don't but we don't also need everyone to jump in claiming fake news 🤦♂️.
As someone afflicted with this it is disheartening to see so many people casting doubt simply because it doesn't impact them. What a silly and narrow-minded stance.
That silly and narrow-minded stance reflects much of society these days. If it’s not happening to them - on any subject - then it’s not real and they don’t care.
And, for some reason, they feel the need to comment on it. I'm reminded of a Demetri Martin bit: "How bad does a guess have to be to be an uneducated guess?"
Its not the distance.
I've tried to get info on it but not much available. All i've seen is that they're relying more on refresh brightness dipping instead of PWM.
i.e. there's a slight dip in brightness that corresponds to the TV's refresh cycle. And unlike PWM, it's one line at a time instead of the entire backlight, so it's less noticeable
The tradeoff is the increased risk of burn-in compared to PWM.
while i think it’s an overstated issue (turn auto brightness off) im actually kind of surprised apple hasn’t advertised some university study partnership for optimal pwm frequencies just for the pr