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Regretfully leaving the Apple camp
- Thread starter Cubemmal
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Yes you are getting things wrong, I'm not sure you read or understood my post.
I'm a developer and I want a high end machine; no refurb too. It's 600-$1k, I picked somewhere in the middle.
So what? The majority of PC makers aren't copying Apples design. I can still put RAM and a drive in one, to start.
Ur, yeah, that's my point. I was able to put an SSD in it, because that was a MBP that was upgradable. Get it? I'm complaining about the lack of upgradability of the newer ones? The 2006 actually had a door in the back making it easy to swap out a drive or battery (not RAM oddly, but at least that was swappable without too much trouble).
Do you want me to take a picture? Never mind, I won't be bothered. But yes I do have one of these and yes the drive can be swapped. Regardless my point is that when Apple used standard 2.5 drives they could be swapped in all of the models.
Wow, really not getting it. I'm not talking about some underpowered computer, I said when I specced out a machine I wanted it was $2500. That is, SSD, max RAM, i7 and not much else.
You obviously know nothing about gaming. lol yourself.
I've never really understood this claim. First off, it's never been a good gaming machine. That's not what it's for. As for the price, it's competitive. Sure, you're always going to get the "why don't you just build a PC/hackintosh" response, which is fine if you're into the whole DIY thing. But compared to other workstation vendors, the Mac Pro falls within range. There are arguments to be made regarding the new design. But I'm not so sure why you have a hard time believing the market for such a machine is that big when the other big companies (Dell, HP, etc.) are still cranking out workstations, not to mention the smaller boutique shops like Boxx.
Yes but at least it was somewhat possible.
I'm not trying to eliminate them and am keeping the 10 odd machines I have. I just can't find a reason to upgrade, and I want/need to upgrade. I don't want to buy a PC, because I like Apple support, fit and finish, and OS. So, I'm stuck - screwed by Apple in their goal of pursuing the largest customer base (general consumer) and the smallest (professional graphics).
I could be happy if they had put Hawaii GPU's in nMP and assured us that Crossfire works under dual boot - or something. Or dropped the price of nMP to something that makes sense, given that they're using GPU's that are even older than the 9750 in my MP. But here's the kicker, say they put the R5, R7 and R9 into nMP next year. To get the R7 guess what it will cost? $4,000 .... and they'll optimize it to the point where it's got less VRAM than standard. Frankly, I have no clue what Apple is thinking.
Sure, when I go to a developer event everybody has a MBP. I've seen very few (if any) airs though. Which is fine for a hackathon or whatever, but you know the problem is multi-monitor. I can try and make it a desktop machine, with three symmetric monitors (the configuration I really need), but guess what? I can't turn off the built in monitor. So 99% of the time I'm using a laptop as a desktop ... stupid waste really.
I'm closing my eyes and hoping that Apple will upgrade to the Hawaii GPU's soon. I'll never be able to upgrade those GPU's, but at least I would have a computer that would make sense.
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My 2009 MP has a new Sapphire card and I dual boot into Win7 for a lovely gaming machine. Best part? I don't need to buy a new computer.
I'm OK with paying the Apple tax as long as I get a box I can multi-boot for multi-purpose.
So, you said you have a Mac Pro, and somehow you are looking to "buy" a Mac Mini for development work. LOL
I never doubted that, but it still doesn't give any validity to the complaint. It was never targeted towards gamers.
Why not wait and see what's possible with the nMP? Maybe Crossfire will work in Windows. From what I've read, the only reason for a xfire bridge in the past was because the PCIe bus couldn't handle the added bandwidth required but now with PCIe 3.0, that's no longer an issue. So for all we know, it will work. And you do realize that the new stuff coming from both AMD and NV these days are just respins on last generations cards? The latest R9 series from AMD are just 7xxx with faster clocks. Despite all the rhetoric around here, you're not missing anything with the new Mac Pro GPUs - and you get two. Try to put two high-end GPUs in a 5,1 Mac Pro... how are you going to power them? And can you do that for cheap?
But if you're a die-hard PC gamer, and buy a new GPU with every game (or at least every year), then just build a cheap gaming PC and use your Macs for work. But I'll tell you, I use to be a die-hard PC gamer too, and switched to a console for gaming. I was tired and broke from having to buy a new GPU with every game, and constantly dealing with driver issues and BSOD (From SLI)... I don't miss anything having switched to a console. I use a mouse controller on my PS3 (I could never get use to the thumb stick) and enjoy the surround sound, 50" screen, armchair comfort, and game exclusives that comes with gaming on a console. And the new PS4 is going to cost less than a decent GPU.
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I built a PC for these very reasons - there is too much of a gap between the mini and the nMP (£2000 difference) and the iMac isn't the solution. Update the mini, or create a new product, build it with a desktop core i7 and a good gaming card (780 GTX, etc) and I'd buy it. I don't like Windows that much, but the PC is cheap and very fast. I don't expect Apple to compete on price, but I do expect them to compete on performance.
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For me there's too much of a gap between the mini and the pro. I would love to see a mini, or a 'Mac', that is good for high-end gaming. The iMac doesn't cut it for me either as the graphics are not enough for gaming either and besides I don't want an all in one.
Well, and lets face it, it is a rather small portion of the total computer user market that actually cares if the system is upgradable because so many never upgrade. If they don't get more RAM, dual processor, or more disk space at the time of purchase, they aren't likely to ever want to get it. I have to admit that not many of my personal systems have been upgraded either...
Oh snap that thing looks like a beast.
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I agree. I had an iMac for 2 years, and whilst I loved it, it had a power supply failure which started buzzing constantly. I lost my faith in Apples 'Built Quality' then and there. I sold that and built a hackintosh audio production and gaming rig.
Glad you responded so I didn't feel compelled to. That comment about 4K monitors and GPU hurt my brain. I guess if you don't require more than 20FPS for anything, you'll be fine.
Anyway we'll see how the D300 with 2GBx2 VRAM handles six 4K monitors.
Apple only charges 80 pounds to upgrade from 4Gb to 8Gb of RAM on every MBA model at their store.
I'm in your camp in many ways, but I think you're wrong about the 2006 MBP. I've had 2 of them in my life and I changed batteries (easy), changed RAM (easy, although a couple of screws have to come off), and changed drives four or five times (not easy; the entire bottom has to come off, the keyboard lifted away, a taped-down ribbon cable untaped/unglued, a small connector has to be moved and then snapped down again on the logic board, you need Torx drivers . . . and so on).
That drive is seriously hard to get to, although it's a lot easier after you've done it once.
Yes, please be bothered and posts pictures (maybe even a little video) of this door that allows you to easily swap hard drives on your 2006 MBP. It would go far for providing proof of your claim.
Exactly right. I have no idea what OP is describing, as it correlates with no 2006 MacBook Pro I've ever worked with. Maybe he's thinking of the non-Unibody white/black MacBooks, where the RAM and hard drive are easily accessible behind the little metal L-bracket after you remove the battery.
The flash PCIe storage on the 2013 MBAs / rMBPs are not soldered to the board, AFAIK. There will be upgrades available from companies like Other World Computing, eventually.
Macbooks, maybe (see Silencio's posting) but Macbook Pros, I'm talking about the aluminum ones, absolutely not.
I know where the last of my 2006 MBPs is, but it's 45 minutes away over bad roads and I don't want to head over there and disassemble it just to make a few photos.
But don't take my word for it. Surf on over to iFixit and grab a guide.
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Core+2+Duo+Model+A1211+Hard+Drive+Replacement/459
To me, it looks like this:
User-replacable MBP battery:
$129 to replace
PRO - you can replace it yourself
CON - it's only rated for 300 cycles
Glued-in rMBP battery:
$199 to replace
PRO - it's rated for 1000 cycles
PRO - since it's glued in, replacements come with a new rMBP top case
CON - I have to take it to Apple to have it replaced
It seems like at the end of 7 years of ownership, your 2006 MBP will have cost significantly more in replacement batteries compared to a rMBP.
As for the non-standard (but user replaceable) SSD drives in the rMBPs, do they make standard 2.5" SATA drives that benchmark near the speed of the PCI-e SSD drives in the rMBPs?
I've got a uni-body MacBook Pro and it has very easy access to the hard drive. I have to remove about a dozen screws, but nearly the entire bottom comes out, two more screws, and the drive is out too. It's a lot easier than the plastic MacBook Pro I had prior because getting the screws out of the plastic one was a drag, and getting the metal piece off and back on straight took some doing the first few times I did it.
It was the iMac that ticked me off in the beginning because of the heat sensor and the whisper thin cable. I had an iMac repaired at an Apple Store (or where ever they sent it) that came back with a, what I can only say sounded like a broken sensor cable, problem with the fans running at top speed. Ready for take off...
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Perhaps he means 'MacBook', as in NON- MacBook Pro?
I've been using Macs since the SE30, and after an LC475, PowerMac 7200/90, "Yikes" 400MHz G4, MDD 1.25GHz G4, and currently a 2010 27" iMac, I don't see myself buying another Mac. This iMac will be perfectly fine for light use for a few years yet, and if I want a more powerful computer in the future, it's unlikely to be a Mac, as I would probably only need the power for games, which would be in Windows anyway... Besides, in my opinion Mac OS X has lost a lot of what made the Mac really nice to use, even as it's gained abilities elsewhere.
Use what suits, dude.
Use what suits, dude.
