Running Windows 11 on a Mac Discussion [Merged]

[Populus]

Microsoft have made some adjustments concerning their TPM requirement. It's now TPM 2.0 only, no TPM 1.2 support

That means now it is harder to eventually see Windows 11 support on Intel macs, right?

 

[Populus]

By the way, is the performance of virtualized Windows good on Apple Silicon macs? does it have to be the Windows for ARM? Is it limited to install arm apps? Thank you

 

[bobcomer]

As someone who works in IT Support we use SCCM & Kaseya for PCs and Addigy for Macs, but I got to say that managing Windows computers is way better and easier than a Mac. You can simply add new groups via AD and you can easily install programs just by 3 clicks, but you can't do that on a Mac so easily and remotely.
And PCs work better in a lot of ways. PCs can be set up easily so that it'd download everything and all the apps on the first boot.
How do you do this on a Mac? How do you set up a Mac to do this automatically? Lets assume the user creates their account and how would I make it install Microsoft Word (activated) + Firefox and other applications automatically?

Windows is way better for businesses. Windows Server is miles ahead from macOS server (which almost no one uses anyways).

Also, I work daily on a PC (on my work computer) and I don't have any issues or problems. Not sure why people are complaining or what's so bad about PCs / Windows.

For what I do PCs and Macs do the same thing. No problem with either one of them.

Same here. I use and love Windows at work. For home, Windows and Mac are pretty much tied in like and usability. I have 2 Macs, and 2 Windows PC's, all on a KVM.

 

[bobcomer]

Have you checked out the minimum requirements for Windows 11?

Yep!

Interesting, 2 days ago Microsoft said 1.2, and 20 hours ago, they said 2.0. I know they'd prefer 2.0, it's more secure, all along, but I guess we'll have to wait and see on the rest. Really no big for me, all my PC's have 2.0, but I was hoping older PC's could use it...

 

[guzhogi]

As someone who works in IT Support we use SCCM & Kaseya for PCs and Addigy for Macs, but I got to say that managing Windows computers is way better and easier than a Mac. You can simply add new groups via AD and you can easily install programs just by 3 clicks, but you can't do that on a Mac so easily and remotely.
And PCs work better in a lot of ways. PCs can be set up easily so that it'd download everything and all the apps on the first boot.
How do you do this on a Mac? How do you set up a Mac to do this automatically? Lets assume the user creates their account and how would I make it install Microsoft Word (activated) + Firefox and other applications automatically?

My school district uses JAMF. We can push out apps & settings with that. I'm not the administrator of it, so I'm not sure entirely how it works, though.

 

[skaertus]

I'm glad that you're enjoying it. For me, Windows is still a copycat of macOS as it originally was. I mean even with this "new" Windows 11 you can still find areas that are straight from the Windows 3.1 or 95. Steve was right, Microsoft doesn't have any taste or vision. To me, Microsoft's products are not a labor of love, but a matter of utility. They are both too scared to truly innovate and to have any original vision. It's hard to imagine that anyone would pay real money for a Microsoft product. It's truly bad. It's something like Dacia.

Well, I have to disagree.

Apple and Microsoft have changed a lot over the years. Steve Jobs was a passionate guy, and he certainly had a taste. Tim Cook is very utility-driven and does not seem to care much about the products, but he seems to be doing just great at conducting the company. Bill Gates was very utility-driven as well as Microsoft CEO. Steve Ballmer was a passionate guy, but you can doubt his taste and vision. Satya Nadella seems to be doing a great job, and it seems to me that he is more interested in products than Tim Cook is.

To some degree, all these products end up being a mixture of both. Windows 8 was innovative and turned out to be not too good. Windows is functional and so is macOS. I figure out how important function over form is when I first tried Linux. At the time, many people in the Linux world had the idea that Windows and macOS interfaces were "eyecandy". And the Linux answers to those were things such as Compiz and Beryl, which look interesting the first time you see them but end up becoming a functional nightmare. I began to truly value proprietary software after trying Linux (and not coming back).

I pay for Microsoft software. I have paid for Windows before and also for OS X (back when it was paid). Windows is a great operating system and I think it manages to rival macOS. You may have your personal preference, but, in terms of objective criteria, they seem pretty much even to me. macOS may have better battery management, for instance, but Windows has better window management.

And I subscribe to Microsoft 365 (formerly Office 365), as I see value in it. Microsoft 365 has a good and functional interface. It may not be jaw-dropping, but it is miles ahead of the competition in terms of interface, functionality, and features. And many people pay for it as well. I would not pay for Apple's iWork, though, as the consistency between platforms seems to have stripped it out of important and useful features.

As for operating systems, I suppose both Microsoft and Apple offer the updates for free to encourage people to upgrade. Windows and macOS are both fine in their current versions, and there is no compelling reason for the majority of people to upgrade. If both Microsoft and Apple want to push the adoption of the latest version, they have to offer it for free. And that is what they are both doing.

I understand your point, but I think Microsoft has gone a long way since the 1980s or 1990s or whenever Steve Jobs mentioned they had no vision or taste.

 

[Kent W]

The decision to limit W11 to just TPM 2.0 ready PC's will decrease the potential for W11. There is also a list of accepted CPU's. W11 may have a fairly limited potential for upgrade and Intel Macs are not among them.

It would surprise me if Apple made a firmware update available to activate any TPM 2.0 chip onboard for the 8th generation Intel architecture boards and forward to make Macs W11 ready. They still run W10 with support until October 2025. But who knows which direction Apple may take on this.

 

[Bandaman]

I'm sorry but I lose track of all the toasters running Windows; Linux, however...

LOTS of toasters running on Linux for sure.

 

[Populus]

The decision to limit W11 to just TPM 2.0 ready PC's will decrease the potential for W11. There is also a list of accepted CPU's. W11 may have a fairly limited potential for upgrade and Intel Macs are not among them.

It would surprise me if Apple made a firmware update available to activate any TPM 2.0 chip onboard for the 8th generation Intel architecture boards and forward to make Macs W11 ready. They still run W10 with support until October 2025. But who knows which direction Apple may take on this.

I agree, it is highly unlikely that Apple could make an “effort” like that in order to make it easier for their macbooks to run W11. Just remember they released the Boot Camp drivers enabling precision touchpad few weeks ago, after YEARS of W10 compatibility with Boot Camp. I see it unlikely, as they want to move forward to Apple Silicon. And, sadly, no Windows support on Apple Silicon.

Don’t get me wrong, I barely use Windows, last time I installed and booted from Windows on my mac was a year or two ago, but still, I am one of those who enjoys trying and using new operating systems (such as the new Windows or Linux flavors of the moment), that’s why I bought an iPad, I guess, iPad OS ignited my curiosity to get things done on a different way.

 

[GSWForever8]

To me it looks like good timing to settle on a hopefully thoroughly patched and from now on pretty static Windows 10 for a good few years, use it and watch the construction site called version 11 develop from the sidelines. Last thing needed is an OS that goes through major patches and keeps changing under the hood while I need it to simply do its job.

Haha. I feel like Windows 11 is just new UI, that’s all.

 

[jdb8167]

Haha. I feel like Windows 11 is just new UI, that’s all.

It doesn't look like that is true. It requires TPM and removes 32-bit support (at least for booting--not sure about apps.) It seems like Microsoft made some fundamental changes (finally).

 

[th0masp]

Haha. I feel like Windows 11 is just new UI, that’s all.

Possibly but if it means they leave Win 10 alone and put their major updates into 11 from now on, all the better!

They never had any taste/talent for UI/UX anyway so its bound to be another flavor of terrible - and full of legacy. Why not port some of the better Linux window managers at this stage. These guys have long eclipsed Windows.

Oh well, only needs to run work apps and have a halfway usable file manager.

 

[bobcomer]

It doesn't look like that is true. It requires TPM and removes 32-bit support (at least for booting--not sure about apps.) It seems like Microsoft made some fundamental changes (finally).

Not apps, no way that would go over in the Windows world. There's really no reason to get rid of them.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Win11 support goes much further back than 3 years. Win11 will be installable on a PC with a TPM 1.2, which was first made in 2003. It's true not all PC's had them, but name brand ones most likely did and they can be enabled..

Nope. There are CPU requirements on top of the TPM requirements. Eighth Gen Core based Intel processors, Second Gen Ryzen based AMD processors or newer. To my knowledge, none of that existed prior to 2018 (maybe late 2017 at the absolute earliest).

See these links:

For Intel: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...pported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

For AMD: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors

Also, Microsoft seems adamant about TPM 2.0; though I have read that TPM 1.2 will suffice; but that seems to conflict with what Microsoft has stated (as well as what their PC Health Check app reports).

 

[Yebubbleman]

That's what I'm hoping!!

I'd think it would make sense. But you never know!

 

[bousozoku]

It looks okay. If they update the applications that still look like WinNT 3.x/4.x, Win7, Win8.x so that everything looks designed for one platform, they'd make a lot of people happier than they are with Win10.

 

[bobcomer]

Nope. There are CPU requirements on top of the TPM requirements. Eighth Gen Core based Intel processors, Second Gen Ryzen based AMD processors or newer. To my knowledge, none of that existed prior to 2018 (maybe late 2017 at the absolute earliest).

See these links:

For Intel: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...pported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

For AMD: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors

Also, Microsoft seems adamant about TPM 2.0; though I have read that TPM 1.2 will suffice; but that seems to conflict with what Microsoft has stated (as well as what their PC Health Check app reports).

My work 2017 Lenovo X1 has a TPM 2.0 and it says it's ready for Win11.

It's not really a biggie that older hardware can't be upgraded, a lot of people just wont do it, and I wont be doing it at work for my normal users unless it requested and argued about. New computers will get it of course, after it tests out with all our apps.

 

[Yebubbleman]

My work 2017 Lenovo X1 has a TPM 2.0 and it says it's ready for Win11.

It's not really a biggie that older hardware can't be upgraded, a lot of people just wont do it, and I wont be doing it at work for my normal users unless it requested and argued about. New computers will get it of course, after it tests out with all our apps.

Again, TPM 2.0 isn't the only requirement. You need 8th Gen Intel Core on top of that (or 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen). You probably have an 8th Generation CPU in tow.

 

[bobcomer]

Again, TPM 2.0 isn't the only requirement. You need 8th Gen Intel Core on top of that (or 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen). You probably have an 8th Generation CPU in tow.

Yep, but August 2017, so not quite late 2017...

 

[thefourthpope]

?! This is what I've been doing in macOS for nearly 10 years.
Use separate spaces with separate apps (I could have set different wallpapers but don't like that). And have these spaces and apps smoothly transition when I dock/undock my MacBook.

My left most space is stuff I am working on.
Then I have a fullscreen Mail space.
Fullscreen calendar space.
A space with Messages, WhatsApp, Teams, JIRA in a 2x2 layout.

And then 1-2 additional spaces for private stuff, or another project if I work on multiple things concurrently.

When I saw the Windows 11 demo I actually started laughing: "Wait, you couldn't do this in Windows before? Welcome to the party... 10 years later!"

Plus STILL no tabs in Explorer. And still no expanding folders in list view, so you can see the contents of multiple folders at the same time.

How do you do a 2x2 grid in macOS without manually resizing the windows or using a third party like mosaic?

 

[Yebubbleman]

Yep, but August 2017, so not quite late 2017...

Whatever! 8th Generation Intel Core or 2nd Generation AMD Ryzen is the point even if I'm off on release dates! Certainly nothing earlier than those processors will run.

 

[TheralSadurns]

How do you do a 2x2 grid in macOS without manually resizing the windows or using a third party like mosaic?

I never said that I am NOT using another tool to get the 2x2 grid. Personally I'm using BetterSnapTool for that. But that was only a personal anecdote, not the answer to his comment.

The answer to his comment was... that for more than 10 years... you can have separate spaces with different wallpapers and have different apps assigned to them.
Whether you use free floating windows. 1 app fullscreen... or 2 apps fullscreen side by side... you can all do this natively.

A 2x2 grid... only by hand or with special 3rd party applications.
But then again... I've been saying for years, that Aero Snap (and to a lesser extend Aero Peek) are the only two native Windows features that are actually good... and that I wish macOS had.

But this was not the topic here... this was only about using separate spaces for different apps. And that... as I said... we've had for years.

 

[maflynn]

Haha. I feel like Windows 11 is just new UI, that’s all.

There's more to it then just UI, though the UI and UX updates are welcome and are a major part of the update.

Here's a list of updates, in no particular order. Some UI, some UX, and other uddates.

• New design (hopefully its now consistent)
• widgets
• New Start menu
• Updated handling of windows for multiple monitors, i.e., window placements are maintained
• Snap windows
• Xbox app integrated into the system
• Widgets
• Improvement to touch screen/tablets
• Android app support
• Teams is now integrated into the OS (much like iMessage)
• Improved virtual desktop support
• New app store
• Auto HDR for games

Source
Wired
Cnet

 

[Ethosik]

Can someone explain the TPM requirement to me? I just checked and my custom built PC in 2020 does not have TPM and my BIOS does not have a listing for it. I have an i7-10700k, 64GB of RAM, 4TB NVMe, Radeon 5700XT. Does this truly mean that a 10th gen, computer from 2020 cannot run Windows 11?

 

[Serban55]

I will try WIN11 ARM when it will be the final version