Samsung Galaxy Fold

[Ralfi]

800+ likes isn't really that substantial. And go ahead and look at the number of likes for the MacRumors tweet regarding the cancellation of AirPower, a product made by Apple and sought after by those 'fanbois'...more than the number for the Fold tweet. Go take a look at the comments section on any YouTube video that focuses on a short coming of an Apple product (i.e. Unbox Therapy or Linus Tech Tips are full of those) and it's full of Android 'fanbois' just relishing Apple's flaws.

That bias goes both ways.

Yeah that’s true.

I’m just focusing on the Anti-Samsung brigade for now.

Usually, a MacRumors tweet gets <200 likes. But when something extremely bad happens, you see the children pile on & take pleasure in it. It brings out their true juvenile colours...

Eg.

“Let’s not root for tech to fail”.

You hear that, kids?...

 

[Shanghaichica]

Yeah that’s true.

I’m just focusing on the Anti-Samsung brigade for now.

Usually, a MacRumors tweet gets <200 likes. But when something extremely bad happens, you see the children pile on & take pleasure in it. It brings out their true juvenile colours...

Eg.

“Let’s not root for tech to fail”.

You hear that, kids?...

Yes now we have to endure all these smug YouTubers posting their smug I told you so videos.

 

[nfl46]

I understand pushing the envelope and trying to get a new product out there but don’t charge $2K and give people a product that isn’t ready for prime time. I’d been okay if Samsung waited another year to work out the hardware limitations. I wouldn’t consider one of these until Gen 3 at minimum.

 

[jamezr]

Yes now we have to endure all these smug YouTubers posting their smug I told you so videos.

Yes now we have to endure all these smug YouTubers posting their smug I told you so videos.

They are the worst.....smug littler basterds lol. The more dramatic they can be the subscribers they get.....

 

[1050792]

This is really bad for Samsung right now. They should have tested the technology more or atleast don't release it half baked. I wasn't expecting this but they do deserve the bad press they're going to get from this. I see another Note 7 recall fiasco and now for a 2k device!

It's a shame Samsung phones are amazing quality and no other can come close to the S10+, but this is just releasing a product they knew wasn't ready.

I hope they take the right measures to fix this issue in the best way possible, we might see a really foldable phone in 5 years or so.

 

[maflynn]

This is really bad for Samsung right now

Given the high price they're charging, and really trying to show off some mind bending technology - yeah.

I can only think that this is the very definition of bleeding edge and the technology is just too immature.

 

[The Game 161]

What will decide things is everybody else... If this happens to just the models known Samsung could cover it but if others have same issue after launch they will have to pull the plug for now

 

[FFR]

Apple will just sit back until others like Samsung and Huwawei have done all the years of hard work to get this into a workable product that can be sold to the mass market. They will then come along and copy it and give it a fancy new name and then people will be screaming about how innovate Apple are and how Apple are not the first but they do it right.

I don’t think you understand Samsung’s business model.

Samsung display wants apple to sit back and do nothing, so apple can buy their foldable displays at the iPhones scale and license their flexible display patents. It’s how Samsung makes most of their money through components not through selling phones. Samsung mobile is a tertiary business for Samsung meant to exhibit Samsung’s technology for other manufacturers to purchase.

In fact the Samsung fabricated display is the only Samsung component left in apples supply chain. And with Japan display and boe entering the mobile OLED display market, that translates into less orders for Samsung. The fold mate x is using a boe display not a Samsung display.

And With over 200 million iPhone every year iPhones are a very lucrative market for component suppliers that can scale up.

But lets be honest Samsung should not have rushed this device to Market not at £2k.

 

[jamezr]

Apple will just sit back until others like Samsung and Huwawei have done all the years of hard work to get this into a workable product that can be sold to the mass market. They will then come along and copy it and give it a fancy new name and then people will be screaming about how innovate Apple are and how Apple are not the first but they do it right.

Apple does that all the time...wait until someone else releases a feature or new product...change it just a little...then re brand it as the best thing ever and see how innovative we are....
Apple couldn't even make a wireless charger and get it right so they canceled it.

I applaud companies like Samsung and Huawei that are willing to push the envelope so to speak to bring new types of products to market.

 

[tbayrgs]

Apple does that all the time...wait until someone else releases a feature or new product...change it just a little...then re brand it as the best thing ever and see how innovative we are....
Apple couldn't even make a wireless charger and get it right so they canceled it.

I applaud companies like Samsung and Huawei that are willing to push the envelope so to speak to bring new types of products to market.

To play devil's advocate a bit here...

Apple likely has every possible configuration of a device you or I'd could imagine in their R&D and probably has had them for years before we ever sniff it as a potential product. Same goes for any of these huge hardware OEMs, including Samsung. The difference is Samsung decides to test the waters far earlier than most, arguably letting its customers be the beta testers for their new ambitions (the Note Edge, Galaxy Round, this Galaxy Fold). This obviously is giving them some valuable real world market research regarding what customers do and don't want. Simultaneously though it's providing that same information to all of it's competitors. And it also opens them up to quite a bit of more risk when they may possibly push a product out sooner than they should. The one noticeable instance where Apple pre-announced a product that wasn't ready has come back to bite them in the rear (AirPower). If they had followed their typical method and never even mentioned it, they wouldn't have this blemish on their record. Samsung may now be faced with that very same reality if these early issues with the Fold turn out to be more widespread and problematic after release.

Apple decides it doesn't need to market test every potential viable product, likely because companies like Samsung, and lately many of the Chinese OEMS, are doing that for them. Downside for Apple is the perception (and often, reality) that they are market laggards. Sometimes this strategy works (i.e. AirPods, Apple Watch, FaceID) and sometimes it doesn't (late to the game with large display phones, HomePod is almost an afterthought in the smart speaker market).

Not saying one strategy is better than the other but they are decidedly quite different. Both have advantages and flaws. What's the benefit to us customers of Samsung pushing out a product too early that turns out isn't ready for the mass market? How is that more advantageous to us vs. continuing to develop and test that same product out of the public eye and ultimately releasing a better product later? Samsung loves to say they're the first to market with something and this certainly has that feel to it. I personally would rather have a reliable product--couldn't care less if a company can brag that they did it before anyone else. That boast doesn't make the product any better for me.

I absolutely appreciate that Samsung is constantly pushing the envelope and trying to innovate and develop amazing new products. They push the entire industry forward. I just think their apparent fascination with 'one-upping' their competitors can hurt more than it helps and public failures hurt far more than they help.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I don't see a product failure here just because a few reviewers intentionally/unintentionally pulled off the special screen protector

Sure dumb of Samsung not to foresee users with a free phone are more likely to abuse it for clickbait

I did see one with a bump under the screen which needs explaining

else

We have the usual onslaught of second guessing and armchair experts

 

[jamezr]

To play devil's advocate a bit here...

Apple likely has every possible configuration of a device you or I'd could imagine in their R&D and probably has had them for years before we ever sniff it as a potential product. Same goes for any of these huge hardware OEMs, including Samsung. The difference is Samsung decides to test the waters far earlier than most, arguably letting its customers be the beta testers for their new ambitions (the Note Edge, Galaxy Round, this Galaxy Fold). This obviously is giving them some valuable real world market research regarding what customers do and don't want. Simultaneously though it's providing that same information to all of it's competitors. And it also opens them up to quite a bit of more risk when they may possibly push a product out sooner than they should. The one noticeable instance where Apple pre-announced a product that wasn't ready has come back to bite them in the rear (AirPower). If they had followed their typical method and never even mentioned it, they wouldn't have this blemish on their record. Samsung may now be faced with that very same reality if these early issues with the Fold turn out to be more widespread and problematic after release.

Apple decides it doesn't need to market test every potential viable product, likely because companies like Samsung, and lately many of the Chinese OEMS, are doing that for them. Downside for Apple is the perception (and often, reality) that they are market laggards. Sometimes this strategy works (i.e. AirPods, Apple Watch, FaceID) and sometimes it doesn't (late to the game with large display phones, HomePod is almost an afterthought in the smart speaker market).

Not saying one strategy is better than the other but they are decidedly quite different. Both have advantages and flaws. What's the benefit to us customers of Samsung pushing out a product too early that turns out isn't ready for the mass market? How is that more advantageous to us vs. continuing to develop and test that same product out of the public eye and ultimately releasing a better product later? Samsung loves to say they're the first to market with something and this certainly has that feel to it. I personally would rather have a reliable product--couldn't care less if a company can brag that they did it before anyone else. That boast doesn't make the product any better for me.

I absolutely appreciate that Samsung is constantly pushing the envelope and trying to innovate and develop amazing new products. They push the entire industry forward. I just think their apparent fascination with 'one-upping' their competitors can hurt more than it helps and public failures hurt far more than they help.

I see your point and offer a counter point..... Apple does use its customer's a beta testers sometimes.
Look at the iPhone 6 Plus. The first iPhone of that size...it had numerous problems and failures due to being the first large display iPhone. It was not ready to be honest. They made structural changes in the 6s Plus so it would not bend.
While other companies like Samsung and other OEMs had been producing that size phones for quite sometime. Look at the battery issues with iPhones from just a couple models ago. Other OEMs did not have those issues although some had battery issues of their own

Look at the butterfly keyboard issues with Macbook Pros? To say Apple does not release products before they are ready is not accurate in my opinion. There is just way too many examples to the contrary.
To say only other companies have problems with products after they are released is not accurate. Just stroll over to the forums on Macrumors.

Then...speaking of AirPower....what a failure. Go to Amazon and you will find a plethora of products that do exactly what AirPower was announced to do. This wasn't anything new.......others have been doing it for quite a while.

I still feel that Apple rides others coattails when it comes to new products. They let others do the trail blazing with new products only to release similar products down the road. Re branding the features and product as best ever and game changers....best ever done. We have all watched the product releases.

I feel that Apple would not have released a larger display iPhone (there are other Apple products that could fit in this box) had it not been for other companies doing it first.

I applaud companies like Samsung and Huawei that push the envelope with products like a fold able phone.
I'm sure they had them on the idea board for years. Samsung needs to go back to the drawing board on the Fold and rethink their strategy. I am excited to see how the Huawei Mate X is reviewed once it is released to the masses.

 

[tbayrgs]

Then...speaking of AirPower....what a failure. Go to Amazon and you will find a plethora of products that do exactly what AirPower was announced to do. This wasn't anything new.......others have been doing it for quite a while.

Point of clarification...there are no products that do what AirPower was purported to do. It wasn't simply 2 or 3 separate coils as any of those multiple device wireless charging pad use. Apple was attempting to overlay dozens of coils of various types and sizes (remember, it was going to be able to not only charge Qi compatible devices but also the Apple Watch, which uses it's own proprietary wireless solution) so that you could place multiple devices anywhere on the pad and have them charge, while also providing additional information about each device (i.e. see charging info for the Apple Watch on the iPhone). Problem was, Apple was confident they could solve the last hurdles to get it to work but ultimately, they bit off more than they could chew and couldn't fix it.

IMO, Apple was over-complicating a solution to something that wasn't really a problem. Could they have just released a wireless charging pad with multiple separate charging locations? Yup, and Apple fans would've bought them in droves but Apple of course thought they could do it better and hubris got the better of them. I for one am glad they failed so publicly--maybe they'll finally have a little humility.

And yeah, the typical 'Apple speak' when discussing the superiority of their products is tiresome but do you honestly expect a company to not tout their stuff as the best? It's annoying but it is what it is...they all stick their foot in their mouths...Google, Samsung, they all do it to varying degrees (poking fun at removing the headphone jack, the notch haircut, etc).

Regardless, as I mentioned, I'm just playing devil's advocate for the point of discussion. I've also become quite frustrated with Apple's overall decisions and direction over the past few years, and why I'm stepping away from their ecosystem as much as feasible. At the same time though, while I may not agree with it, I realize the smart business in some of their decisions. Let others break the eggs before you make an omelete. If this ultimately blows up in Samsung's face (sorry, no pun intended), what was the benefit to pushing this out to the public so quickly? You can push envelopes just as hard without doing it out in public.

 

[FFR]

It doesn’t really make much logical sense to compare an unreleased accessory to a flagship smartphone that is going to ship in a couple of days.

 

[jamezr]

Point of clarification...there are no products that do what AirPower was purported to do. It wasn't simply 2 or 3 separate coils as any of those multiple device wireless charging pad use. Apple was attempting to overlay dozens of coils of various types and sizes (remember, it was going to be able to not only charge Qi compatible devices but also the Apple Watch, which uses it's own proprietary wireless solution) so that you could place multiple devices anywhere on the pad and have them charge, while also providing additional information about each device (i.e. see charging info for the Apple Watch on the iPhone). Problem was, Apple was confident they could solve the last hurdles to get it to work but ultimately, they bit off more than they could chew and couldn't fix it.

IMO, Apple was over-complicating a solution to something that wasn't really a problem. Could they have just released a wireless charging pad with multiple separate charging locations? Yup, and Apple fans would've bought them in droves but Apple of course thought they could do it better and hubris got the better of them. I for one am glad they failed so publicly--maybe they'll finally have a little humility.

And yeah, the typical 'Apple speak' when discussing the superiority of their products is tiresome but do you honestly expect a company to not tout their stuff as the best? It's annoying but it is what it is...they all stick their foot in their mouths...Google, Samsung, they all do it to varying degrees (poking fun at removing the headphone jack, the notch haircut, etc).

Regardless, as I mentioned, I'm just playing devil's advocate for the point of discussion. I've also become quite frustrated with Apple's overall decisions and direction over the past few years, and why I'm stepping away from their ecosystem as much as feasible. At the same time though, while I may not agree with it, I realize the smart business in some of their decisions. Let others break the eggs before you make an omelete. If this ultimately blows up in Samsung's face (sorry, no pun intended), what was the benefit to pushing this out to the public so quickly? You can push envelopes just as hard without doing it out in public.

you can defend Apple all you want and back track on earlier statements.....
But Apple has released numerous products that were not ready and that were rushed to market.
One could even argue the iphone "s" models are the real products and the first level numbered models are for beta testing on Apple consumers.

There was Bendgate and Antennagate and the battery slow down issues. The FaceTime bug was a rare privacy blunder, and the butterfly keyboard on new MacBooks is still a travesty. But none of these quite compare to being forced to kill a long-promised product right before it was supposed to launch.

The the new AirPods has a direct reference to AirPower on the box. Thousands of people ordered the second-generation AirPods or their $79 wireless charging case with the expectation they would also be able to buy AirPower and, you know, wirelessly charge them.

Then AirPower was not so unique in its design and end results...

• 3 in 1 WIRELESS CHARGING SOLUTION: Quezqa wireless charging pad is designed to charge up to three devices at the same time! Our wireless charging station is compatible with all series iWatch, Airpods (case required), iPhone and other Qi-enabled devices.

https://www.amazon.com/Quezqa-Wireless-Charging-Pad-Compatible/dp/B07K5951MR/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2AK1PZMID83V0&keywords=wireless+charging+3+devices&qid=1555607332&s=gateway&sprefix=wireless+chargring+3+devices,aps,488&sr=8-4


You can buy similar products....maybe they won't display on an iphone correctly but then who is at fault for that? Apple makes too many thing proprietary so as to sell people products and features through their own channels.

 

[The Game 161]

It doesn’t really make much logical sense to compare an unreleased accessory to a flagship smartphone that is going to ship in a couple of days.

Flagship phone? Hardly... Its a product only a small part of the world would buy anyway at this stage.

It's a fair comparison at this stage.. If people who buy the fold experience the same issues as some reviewers then Samsung will need to stop production but until then it's too soon to say

 

[Shanghaichica]

Bored at work’s fold is still going strong after 4 days

 

[The Game 161]

Bored at work’s fold is still going strong after 4 days

Snap was about to post... Lol

Honestly I think we need to wait and see on other units before slamming this as failure

 

[NJHitmen]

Then AirPower was not so unique in its design and end results...

• 3 in 1 WIRELESS CHARGING SOLUTION: Quezqa wireless charging pad is designed to charge up to three devices at the same time! Our wireless charging station is compatible with all series iWatch, Airpods (case required), iPhone and other Qi-enabled devices.

View attachment 832792

https://www.amazon.com/Quezqa-Wireless-Charging-Pad-Compatible/dp/B07K5951MR/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2AK1PZMID83V0&keywords=wireless+charging+3+devices&qid=1555607332&s=gateway&sprefix=wireless+chargring+3+devices,aps,488&sr=8-4


You can buy similar products....maybe they won't display on an iphone correctly but then who is at fault for that? Apple makes too many thing proprietary so as to sell people products and features through their own channels.

I agree with most of your points, but this isn't accurate. As @tbayrgs noted above: there's nothing on the market which does what Apple intended with Airpower. The point of differentiation was supposed to be ease of use: the user could drop a phone, or watch, or airpod case anywhere on Airpower's surface. This required many wireless charging coils overlaying one another, essentially creating one giant Qi field. As simple as that sounds, apparently it isn't. Between EM interference and heat generation, it's actually an engineering nightmare.

Yes, there are other products out there with multiple coils. I've seen them with as many as six (and there are probably chargers with more). Sure, you can use those to charge a phone/watch/airpod case simultaneously. But even with six coils, you'd still need to place your device with some care in order to guarantee a charge. Drop it in the wrong spot, and the device won't charge. Maybe it sounds minor, but this is a critical distinction: Apple wanted to avoid this requirement entirely, allowing a charge via every square centimeter of Airpower's surface. Thus giving the user the typical "it just works" experience.

To be clear: I'm not defending Apple. Airpower was a major failure. They shouldn't have announced it until they'd solved the engineering challenges. They probably built some prototypes which came close to achieving their goal, and assumed they'd be able to fine-tune the design until it worked they way they wanted it to (without producing excessive heat). That assumption is where they went awry. You know what they say about people who assume.

Should they have settled for a multiple-coil design that mostly matched their vision? Maybe. But "it mostly works" isn't generally the target that Apple shoots for.

 

[mrex]

nvm

 

[AustinIllini]

I don't see a product failure here just because a few reviewers intentionally/unintentionally pulled off the special screen protector

Sure dumb of Samsung not to foresee users with a free phone are more likely to abuse it for clickbait

I did see one with a bump under the screen which needs explaining

else

We have the usual onslaught of second guessing and armchair experts

This is launch is littered with product faults.

 

[jamesrick80]

... wrong thread

 

[Shanghaichica]

 

[co.ag.2005]

I watched this a little bit ago. I can definitely see how he (and others) would think there's a plastic screen protector on it similar to what came on the S10 series.

 

[willentrekin]

Given the high price they're charging, and really trying to show off some mind bending technology - yeah.

I can only think that this is the very definition of bleeding edge and the technology is just too immature.

Surely you mean "screen bending."

Seriously, though, your last word nails it. It's tough to call this a product failure because it's tough to call the Fold a product; it seems at best a prototype with a clunky design, and even if it didn't have a crease in the screen it's got a gap between the sides when "closed." But it's like Samsung was just like "Okay, if you want a folding screen you have to accept all these terrible design choices and awkward trade-offs and the fact that it's not going to be actually good at doing anything you want either a phone or a table to do," instead of "Look. Here's a great phone that folds in half. Enjoy."

It launches tomorrow, 4/19, right? Should be interesting, at least. Do we have a "gate" yet? Crease-gate? Fold-gate? Bend-gate?