SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[edcopr]

@MacVidCards

@MacVidCards

I certainly hope so! Previously I tried Samsung Evo 840/Sonnet and OWC Accelsior E2 in my cMP and they were a huge leap in performance but didn't bring me the thrill that I'm searching for.

 

[Upgrader]

@MacVidCards

Previously I tried OWC Accelsior E2 in my cMP.

Speaking of which, I have a question.

A friend wants a PCIe SSD boot drive. They don’t want to pay for the latest SSUBX drives incl. import taxes from the US and want at least onboard Garbage Collection so XP941/SM951’s are out. They also don’t want to use Trim Enabler. Is there a quicker solution than getting an E2 Accelsior PCIe SSD for a boot drive in this scenario?

Cheers.

 

[MacVidCards]

Speaking of which, I have a question.

A friend wants a PCIe SSD boot drive. They don’t want to pay for the latest SSUBX drives incl. import taxes from the US and want at least onboard Garbage Collection so XP941/SM951’s are out. They also don’t want to use Trim Enabler. Is there a quicker solution than getting an E2 Accelsior PCIe SSD for a boot drive in this scenario?

Cheers.

Any Apple PCIE SSD in a Sintech adapter

Just be aware that they made several versions of Blades, only latest ones are true PCIE, early ones were SATA on a stick, as it were.

Only way to have TRIM natively. Many are only 2 lanes, only the 4 lane ones are super fast.

 

[IowaLynn]

Speaking of which, I have a question.

A friend wants a PCIe SSD boot drive... and onboard Garbage Collection so XP941/SM951’s are out.

Cheers.

Since when has there ever been an SSD of any type without BGC? I have the XP941 and vouch for it. TE just enables what Apple didn't because looking for an ID string in a product and refusing to support an industry standard makes a piece of fruit taste so much better.

 

[Macsonic]

Hello,

Anyone using Lycom/Bplus adaptor with 512 XP491? May I know whether the deep issue is still present? I understand previously that the LYcom with XP491 will not boot after deep sleep. Thx

I'm using a Lyncom adapter with a 256gb Samsung XP941. So far the SSD is still bootable coming from sleep. Though I could not comment on a 512g SSD size.

 

[edcopr]

Any Appple SSD and a Sintech card

Speaking of which, I have a question.

A friend wants a PCIe SSD boot drive. They don’t want to pay for the latest SSUBX drives incl. import taxes from the US and want at least onboard Garbage Collection so XP941/SM951’s are out. They also don’t want to use Trim Enabler. Is there a quicker solution than getting an E2 Accelsior PCIe SSD for a boot drive in this scenario?

Cheers.

My friend, as MacVidCards pointed out ANY Apple SSD with a Sintech adapter card will support Trim without the need of trim enabler. Read this thread from the beginning and you'll find lots of information!

 

[sammyman]

My friend, as MacVidCards pointed out ANY Apple SSD with a Sintech adapter card will support Trim without the need of trim enabler. Read this thread from the beginning and you'll find lots of information!

That's a lot of reading. I probably made it through half way last night before I fell asleep. I think we need another spring update!

I read the $10 cards were popular, but more recently, they have given some problems. Sounds like the best method is the Sintech card + newest Apple SSD.

Looks like the price on the Apple SSD has dropped to about $520 for a used one on eBay, but hovering closer to $600. I'm wondering if we will see under $500 this year on the 1TB drives?

 

[freedom42]

Just to be sure does P/N MZ-KPU1TOT/0A6 support trim with the native driver (e.g. w/o trim patch)?

 

[Pressure]

Just to be sure does P/N MZ-KPU1TOT/0A6 support trim with the native driver (e.g. w/o trim patch)?

All Apple drives has TRIM support.

 

[crjackson2134]

All the SSUBX benchmarks I've posted are from the 512GB part. Expect 1500-1600+ read/writes in Quickbench. Less in BlackMagic.

It arrived a few days ago, but I just got around to installing a few moments ago. It's getting a little over 1500 with BlackMagic while installed in Slot 3.

Sadly, it only connects at 2.5GT/s in Slot 2 (where I'd prefer to install), but it does 5.0GT/s in Slot 3. Is there any trick to getting 5.0GT/s in Slot 2?

 

[Upgrader]

My friend, as MacVidCards pointed out ANY Apple SSD with a Sintech adapter card will support Trim without the need of trim enabler. Read this thread from the beginning and you'll find lots of information!

Unlike a lot of people who post questions here, I have read this post from the beginning and I’m perfectly aware that Apple drives have native TRIM support. My question was more about non-apple PCIe SSD’s similar to the E2 but possibly faster/cheaper that I could’ve missed.

----------

Since when has there ever been an SSD of any type without BGC?

So the SM951 has BGC? You can confirm that based on confirming it with your XP941? So what’s the point of the Sandforce chip on my Accelsior E2?

 

[IowaLynn]

Check out the Wikipedia page for Serial ATA which M.2 (NGFF) is a subset.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

Sandforce is just one type of built-in controller, with its own implementation and firmware.

OWC PR machine it seems like and misled in the process.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1754767/

I found comments on MacIntouch very helpful.


CHAMELEON TRIM ENABLER
http://chameleon.alessandroboschini.com/features.php

TRIM is a feature that allows solid state drives to automatically handle garbage collection, cleaning up unused blocks of data and preparing them for rewriting, thereby preventing slowdowns that would otherwise occur over time as garbage data accumulates. Support for TRIM has been included in OS X (10.6.7), but Apple decided that native TRIM support is limited to stock Apple drives (users who have installed third-party SSDs into their machines have reported that TRIM is not enabled). Chameleon enables support TRIM changing the driver IOHACIBlockStorage by removing the lock on third-party drives, also a back up copy is included to restore the original, you can find it at:

"/System/Library/Extensions/IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/
Contents/MacOS/IOHACIBlockStorage.backup".​

SATA 3.1 Specifications Were Released July 2011.
".. interesting addition brought to SATA 3.1 is the support for queuing SSD TRIM commands, that allows the drive to perform this type of operations at a later date in order not to affect the performance of the SSD when in use."


SATA-IO Introduces the SATA v3.2 Specifications in August 2013

SATA 3.2 specification include DevSleep, USM, Transitional Energy Reporting, Hybrid Information, microSSD, and Rebuild Assist for reconstructing RAID arrays. And of course, M.2, SATA Express and enhancements for emerging solid state hybrid drives.

TRIM (which, as a side note, is not an acronym) is a SATA command that enables the operating system to tell an SSD what blocks of previously saved data are no longer needed as a result of file deletions or using the format command. When an LBA is replaced by the OS, as with an overwrite of a file, the SSD knows that the original LBA can be marked as stale or invalid and it will not save those blocks during garbage collection.

... the TRIM command resolves this problem for operating systems that support it like Windows 7,[27] Mac OS (latest releases of Snow Leopard, Lion, and Mountain Lion, patched in some cases),[29] FreeBSD since version 8.1,[30] and Linux since version 2.6.33 of the Linux kernel mainline.[31] When a file is permanently deleted or the drive is formatted, the OS sends the TRIM command along with the LBAs that no longer contain valid data.

Garbage collection

References:
http://www.legitreviews.com/samsung-xp941-256gb-m-2-pcie-ssd-mini-review_142369
https://www.sata-io.org/sata-m2-card
TheSSDReview XP941 M.2 PCIe

 

[Upgrader]

Check out the Wikipedia page for Serial ATA which M.2 (NGFF) is a subset.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

Sandforce is just one type of built-in controller, with its own implementation and firmware.

OWC PR machine it seems like and misled in the process.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1754767/

I found comments on MacIntouch very helpful.


CHAMELEON TRIM ENABLER
http://chameleon.alessandroboschini.com/features.php

TRIM is a feature that allows solid state drives to automatically handle garbage collection, cleaning up unused blocks of data and preparing them for rewriting, thereby preventing slowdowns that would otherwise occur over time as garbage data accumulates. Support for TRIM has been included in OS X (10.6.7), but Apple decided that native TRIM support is limited to stock Apple drives (users who have installed third-party SSDs into their machines have reported that TRIM is not enabled). Chameleon enables support TRIM changing the driver IOHACIBlockStorage by removing the lock on third-party drives, also a back up copy is included to restore the original, you can find it at:

"/System/Library/Extensions/IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/
Contents/MacOS/IOHACIBlockStorage.backup".​

SATA 3.1 Specifications Were Released July 2011.
".. interesting addition brought to SATA 3.1 is the support for queuing SSD TRIM commands, that allows the drive to perform this type of operations at a later date in order not to affect the performance of the SSD when in use."


SATA-IO Introduces the SATA v3.2 Specifications in August 2013

SATA 3.2 specification include DevSleep, USM, Transitional Energy Reporting, Hybrid Information, microSSD, and Rebuild Assist for reconstructing RAID arrays. And of course, M.2, SATA Express and enhancements for emerging solid state hybrid drives.

TRIM (which, as a side note, is not an acronym) is a SATA command that enables the operating system to tell an SSD what blocks of previously saved data are no longer needed as a result of file deletions or using the format command. When an LBA is replaced by the OS, as with an overwrite of a file, the SSD knows that the original LBA can be marked as stale or invalid and it will not save those blocks during garbage collection.

... the TRIM command resolves this problem for operating systems that support it like Windows 7,[27] Mac OS (latest releases of Snow Leopard, Lion, and Mountain Lion, patched in some cases),[29] FreeBSD since version 8.1,[30] and Linux since version 2.6.33 of the Linux kernel mainline.[31] When a file is permanently deleted or the drive is formatted, the OS sends the TRIM command along with the LBAs that no longer contain valid data.

Garbage collection

References:
http://www.legitreviews.com/samsung-xp941-256gb-m-2-pcie-ssd-mini-review_142369
https://www.sata-io.org/sata-m2-card
TheSSDReview XP941 M.2 PCIe

Incredibly useful - thank you.

 

[edcopr]

Mz-kpu1tot/0a6

As I have posted in this thread in the last few days, I received both the MZ-KPU1TOT/0A6 and the Sintech adapter. Yesterday I wanted to finish the upgrade in my cMP and when I tried to install de ssd into the adapter the hole on the ssd to secure it to the adapter doesn't align with the adapter screw. I have sent private messages to two members I beleive have the same ssd but while they answer I decided to post my problem here for the benefit of others that might buy the same ssd. Did the same thing happened to someone else here and what was the solution?

Thank's in advance for any help!

 

[Synchro3]

As I have posted in this thread in the last few days, I received both the MZ-KPU1TOT/0A6 and the Sintech adapter. Yesterday I wanted to finish the upgrade in my cMP and when I tried to install de ssd into the adapter the hole on the ssd to secure it to the adapter doesn't align with the adapter screw. I have sent private messages to two members I beleive have the same ssd but while they answer I decided to post my problem here for the benefit of others that might buy the same ssd. Did the same thing happened to someone else here and what was the solution?

Thank's in advance for any help!

You have to push it with a little bit of force entirely in the interface, correctly installed it looks like bellow.

 

[IowaLynn]

As I have posted in this thread in the last few days, I received both the MZ-KPU1TOT/0A6 and the Sintech adapter. Yesterday I wanted to finish the upgrade in my cMP and when I tried to install de ssd into the adapter the hole on the ssd to secure it to the adapter doesn't align with the adapter screw. I have sent private messages to two members I beleive have the same ssd but while they answer I decided to post my problem here for the benefit of others that might buy the same ssd. Did the same thing happened to someone else here and what was the solution?

Thank's in advance for any help!

When I received XP941 and Lycom adapter, I was concerned as they also did not easily align and needed a "little help" to make them fit. And it was very tight fitting.

 

[edcopr]

@Synchro3

@Synchro3

Thank you!

I decided to ask first because this is my first time dealing with these ssd's and I don't want to cause any damage.

I wonder which ssd is the one in your picture; are they all the same lenght?

----------

@IowaLynn

Thank you!

Like I said to @Synchro3, I just don't want to brake the ssd nor the adapter. But I'll try your advice!

 

[edcopr]

Update

Thank's a lot to all who have contributed in one way or another in my cMP upgrade. I followed advice and was able to install ssd into sintech adapter. I wanted to verify if the ssd was indeed new and judging by the information provided from software in my pc it's new.

 

[Synchro3]

@Synchro3

Thank you!

I decided to ask first because this is my first time dealing with these ssd's and I don't want to cause any damage.

I wonder which ssd is the one in your picture; are they all the same lenght?

You're welcome. This is a Samsung SM953 aka MZ-KPV1T00/0A2, and yes, same length.

 

[crjackson2134]

Glad it all got worked out. Would anyone care to comment on my question?

It arrived a few days ago, but I just got around to installing a few moments ago. It's getting a little over 1500 with BlackMagic while installed in Slot 3.

Sadly, it only connects at 2.5GT/s in Slot 2 (where I'd prefer to install), but it does 5.0GT/s in Slot 3. Is there any trick to getting 5.0GT/s in Slot 2?

 

[Synchro3]

Glad it all got worked out. Would anyone care to comment on my question?:

It arrived a few days ago, but I just got around to installing a few moments ago. It's getting a little over 1500 with BlackMagic while installed in Slot 3.

Sadly, it only connects at 2.5GT/s in Slot 2 (where I'd prefer to install), but it does 5.0GT/s in Slot 3. Is there any trick to getting 5.0GT/s in Slot 2?

No, not with the usual MZ-KPV1T0R/0A2.

Yes with MZ-KPV1T00/0A2. If you can find one.

 

[crjackson2134]

No, not with the usual MZ-KPV1T0R/0A2.

Yes with MZ-KPV1T00/0A2. If you can find one.

So, just to be clear...

There is no way to get 5.0 GT/s in Slot 2 with the SSUBX MA-JPV512R/0A2 ?

 

[GregoryOrme]

So, just to be clear...

There is no way to get 5.0 GT/s in Slot 2 with the SSUBX MA-JPV512R/0A2 ?

None that I have heard of. Although is there a reason you can't put it in Slot 3? I am trying to set up RAID 0, and Slots 2 and 3 were optimum for XP941, but the 2.5 GT/s in Slot 2 kills that idea for the SM951s and Apple variants. If SM953s begin to show up, there is hope there. In the meantime, if anyone wants to make an offer on a new 512GB SM951, let me know!

 

[crjackson2134]

None that I have heard of. Although is there a reason you can't put it in Slot 3? I am trying to set up RAID 0, and Slots 2 and 3 were optimum for XP941, but the 2.5 GT/s in Slot 2 kills that idea for the SM951s and Apple variants. If SM953s begin to show up, there is hope there. In the meantime, if anyone wants to make an offer on a new 528GB SM951, let me know!

It's just a preference. Currently I have another SSD/caddy in slot 2, buts it's only an X2 device. It just feels wrong to put the much slower card in the x16 slot, but at least I can use it. I wanted to see if there was a speed increase in Slot 2, but sadly it was much slower when I did that (about 1/2 the speed of Slot 3). It just seems odd, and I wanted it in Slot 2. The Sintech card is also much smaller than the Velocity x2 card, and leaves a lot mor room for air to circulate around the video card.

Although no one has mentioned this specifically, EVERYTHING feels much faster than the Apricorn Solo X2 w/840 Pro, not just benchmarks. I'm happy with the purchase, I just wish I could put it in Slot 2...

Is the 2.5GT/s connection a short coming of the Sintech card or the Apple SSD, or the MP Slot 2?

 

[sammyman]

I'm thinking of putting one of these SSDs in my cMP, but am curious as to how fast these SSD prices will be dropping? Do you think the price will be cut in half every year?

I could probably wait 6 months or so. Right now I can get one for $575-600 or so. Do you think by Black Friday this year they will be down to $400?