Prices have been somewhat high for the SM951 and Apple variant because of limited availability. These drives are OEM and so there has been no open-market competition to drive the prices down. When the first few of a particular model appeared on eBay, the price was driven abnormally high by the forces of supply and demand. I do not believe they will continue to go for ~$700 for 512GB, which is what some were selling for on eBay, but I also do not expect they will get ridiculously cheap any time soon. They are still a bit of a specialty item, what with only certain motherboards being able to take certain models. One gauge might be to look at the prices of the XP941, which were high and held steady and are only now beginning to drop a little because of a few SM951s being available. I know you were talking Black Friday only in terms of time, but again, I would say that unless there is real competition from manufacturers and a non-OEM version commonly available, I don't see prices being cut in half by the end of the year. Of course, I have been known to be wrong!
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SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD
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Prices have been somewhat high for the SM951 and Apple variant because of limited availability. These drives are OEM and so there has been no open-market competition to drive the prices down. When the first few of a particular model appeared on eBay, the price was driven abnormally high by the forces of supply and demand. I do not believe they will continue to go for ~$700 for 512GB, which is what some were selling for on eBay, but I also do not expect they will get ridiculously cheap any time soon. They are still a bit of a specialty item, what with only certain motherboards being able to take certain models. One gauge might be to look at the prices of the XP941, which were high and held steady and are only now beginning to drop a little because of a few SM951s being available. I know you were talking Black Friday only in terms of time, but again, I would say that unless there is real competition from manufacturers and a non-OEM version commonly available, I don't see prices being cut in half by the end of the year. Of course, I have been known to be wrong!
This issue was explained by others better than I, but in short, I believe the issue is with the drive, as the XP941 (and Apple variants) can run at full speed in Slot 2, but the controller on the SM951 (and Apple variants) works differently. As I understand it, the Sintech is just a pass-through adapter and should not affect the speeds. I know that, with the Samsung (not Apple by Samsung) card, two different adapters (they do not use the Sintech) have been tested and there was no difference in speed in Slot 2. Again, because Slot 2 can run at full speed with some cards, I cannot say that this is an obstacle solely borne of the cMP. handheldgames had some ideas about how to overcome this issue, but the other options are to try to find one of the rare new drives that can run at full speed, use a previous generation card that has no limitation, or switch to another slot if not using RAID 0 and one can otherwise manage the placement of the PCIe devices.
I'm in the same boat... very tempted to get one of the Apple modules. But prices seem high, given we're talking about used SSDs. A few pages earlier, the Kingston Predator was mentioned. Looks like it's available now:
http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Digi...id=1429633832&sr=8-1&keywords=hyperx+pcie+ssd
http://www.adorama.com/KGSH28P2H48G.html
On amazon, there's one dude who says he put it into a "2010 Mac Pro" and it works fine.
With the Kingston, at least we would get 3 years warranty. Ideally, I'd like the 5-year offered by Samsung (like the 850 EVO)..... oh, what to do...
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I've routinely seen the ssubx 512gb on eBay for $430. There should be one or two there now. Basically the same price as a xp941 / sm951. The latest supply has been listed as new product. Price depends on vendor.. So don't pay 700 unless money is no object.
I paid $430 for mine and he had more in stock. All were listed as new. It works at full speed in Slot 3 but man does this thing boot slow. My cold boot times went from 35-38 Sec. to 70-80 Sec. I thought maybe it was related to the 840 Pro and the Solo X2 so I removed them and that made do difference. I was really surprised at first and thought it was a boot failure, but once booted, it's really fast. I can notice the difference between the 840 Pro and the Apple Blade in everyday tasks, so it's much more than a benchmark thing...
BTW warm boot is MUCH faster at 11-13 seconds.
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Can you please tell me where you found the MZ-JPV512R/0A2 ssd? I'm looking for one of those or something with similar performance for my Macbook Air (late 2013) and would love to know the eBay vendor where you bought it from. I've searched on eBay and haven't had much luck. Thanks a lot!
I picked up a MZ-JPV512R/A02, 512GB SSUBX x4 version of the Apple flash. 1500MB/S reads and writes! Performance appears to match the 1TB version.
Putting performance in persecutive. The 512 and 1TB SSUBX are 46% faster write and 72% faster Read performance compared to the x4 1TB SSUAX.
Has anyone else with the ssubx 512gb noticed super slow cold boot times? The seller told me he hasn't noticed that at all.
Hey guys. Just picked up my 1TB SSD from a local seller. It was brand new. However, I was told it was only a couple months old. Once I got home and inspected it appears I got the older and slower SSD.
It is a MZ-KPU1T0T/0A6 with SSUAX.
So does this mean I won't be getting the 1300MBs+ that others are seeing here? More like 700MBs?
Wondering if I should sell this blade and look for another!
It is a MZ-KPU1T0T/0A6 with SSUAX.
So does this mean I won't be getting the 1300MBs+ that others are seeing here? More like 700MBs?
Wondering if I should sell this blade and look for another!
Should be good for 900-1000.
And the good news is it will do that in slot 2. So if you get 2 of them you can raid 0 from 2 & 3 and get 2000 or so.
Can't do that with SSUBX
That makes me feel better, except that I will now need to buy another expensive 1TB SSD no matter which way I go!
I've learned a lot in the last few days. This is all new and a bit overwhelming.
One reason I chose to take the plunge is because I eventually (3 years or so probably) will upgrade to a nMP and I hoped that I could take this stick and plug it in down the road. It would be great if they allowed for more than 1 drive, which I think they will eventually do.
Can the SSUBX ever go into a RAID in the future on a nMP (with the assumption they adapt the hardware)? Or is the SSUBX limited by its design? Or is the problem the design of the cMP?
I'd like to future proof myself as much as possible.
Edit: Is this my answer? Sounds like it is more of the drive than the cMP.
And if the SSUBX is the reason these can't be put into RAID, maybe they are designed more for laptop, or single drive use situations? In which case, I'm feeling good about my SSUAX purchase.
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There is no reason you couldn't put a "A" in slot 2 and a "b" in slot 3 or 4 and Raid 0 them. Should still give crazy speeds, and better than 2 A's.
I had a moment of truth last night. I have been working on TB eGPUs and I wanted to try using MBR for Bootcamp in nMP. But OSX can't be installed on a MBR drive, at least that is what Disk Utility tells me.
In my 2014 Mini I can use MBR on the PCIE blade and GPT on the SSD. But in nMP I don't have the flexibility. It only has one drive so if I want to use MBR to format the drive I need to use an external to run OSX.
It hit me rather hard that my $500 Mini was much more flexible than my $3000 nMP. Who in their right mind came up with a "Pro" computer that has fewer drive slots than their entry level desktop? Would it really have ruined the lovely looks to have kept an old SATA connection for a short height 2.5" SATA SSD? No, it wouldn't have, and users could have doubled storage before resorting to the growth of the octopus of wires on their desk. (So the emphasis was on how pretty it is coming out of box on Day 1, not on actual usage)
In any case, my 2012 rMBP tells me it is using MBR so either there is a workaround, or the nMP has some newer tech that won't allow. Disk formatting has never been an interest of mine. But I will be learning more.
But I have already learned that a $500 Mini gives me better options then even a $10K maxed out Pro. Fashion over Function. Wish they would get back to trying the reverse.
I had a moment of truth last night. I have been working on TB eGPUs and I wanted to try using MBR for Bootcamp in nMP. But OSX can't be installed on a MBR drive, at least that is what Disk Utility tells me.
In my 2014 Mini I can use MBR on the PCIE blade and GPT on the SSD. But in nMP I don't have the flexibility. It only has one drive so if I want to use MBR to format the drive I need to use an external to run OSX.
It hit me rather hard that my $500 Mini was much more flexible than my $3000 nMP. Who in their right mind came up with a "Pro" computer that has fewer drive slots than their entry level desktop? Would it really have ruined the lovely looks to have kept an old SATA connection for a short height 2.5" SATA SSD? No, it wouldn't have, and users could have doubled storage before resorting to the growth of the octopus of wires on their desk. (So the emphasis was on how pretty it is coming out of box on Day 1, not on actual usage)
In any case, my 2012 rMBP tells me it is using MBR so either there is a workaround, or the nMP has some newer tech that won't allow. Disk formatting has never been an interest of mine. But I will be learning more.
But I have already learned that a $500 Mini gives me better options then even a $10K maxed out Pro. Fashion over Function. Wish they would get back to trying the reverse.
OK, so not being able to do RAID 0 with SSUBX drives is more of a problem with the cMP than with the drives.
I do think there is a future to the nMP. But the first revision does seem quite limiting.
Congratulations!
Hey, congratulations!
I made the same purchase and I don't regret it; perhaps later on I'll buy a different one. I already installed Snow Leopard in it and I didn't have any problem whatsoever. I only noticed that Trim was not enabled after installation of 10.6.4 but it was enabled after I upgraded to 10.6.8. I haven't been able to conduct any speed test yet since I'm in the proccess to do a clean install with Mavericks. Nevertheless, I was amased at how fast my cMP boots now (between 11 to 15 seconds). 10.6.4 recognised the ssd as internal and it gave the proper icon to it.
Hey, congratulations!
I made the same purchase and I don't regret it; perhaps later on I'll buy a different one. I already installed Snow Leopard in it and I didn't have any problem whatsoever. I only noticed that Trim was not enabled after installation of 10.6.4 but it was enabled after I upgraded to 10.6.8. I haven't been able to conduct any speed test yet since I'm in the proccess to do a clean install with Mavericks. Nevertheless, I was amased at how fast my cMP boots now (between 11 to 15 seconds). 10.6.4 recognised the ssd as internal and it gave the proper icon to it.
I am not saying that the SSUBX cannot be put into RAID 0 in any machine or situation, just that it will not work at full speed in Slot 2 of the cMP, so there's no point in it. The way I see it is that, if you want RAID 0 in the cMP, the best solution is going with a pair of the older, usually cheaper SSUAX or Samsung XP941 sticks.
For sake of comparison, BareFeats got 2231/1750 max r/w with two XP941s in Slots 2 and 3. One SM951 will spare the trouble of RAID 0, but will slow (on PCIe 2.0) to 1600/1350. You be the judge if that is noticeable. I have not tried this, but one guy tried XP941 in Slot 2 and SM951 in Slot 3 to get the best of both worlds, but found it benchmarked slower than the double XP941 combo. He ended up going with the XP941 in Slot 2, and SM951s in Slots 3 and 4 and got 2300/2100. That is scorching. I don't know if it is worth three PCIe slots, when apparently one can obtain 2231/1750 with older XP941s in Slots 2 and 3, still have a free PCIe slot, increase reliability, and save hundreds, but if one wants to build the ultimate cMP beast, then I put it out there for consideration. Me, I think I'd rather have a spot for my USB 3.0 card and a few more dollars in my pocket.
Today I tried my SSUBX 512GB in slots 2, 3, 4 in an effort to try and better my sluggish boot times, I benchmarked the performance of each slot after it was booted.
Cold Boot Tests:
Slot 2 - 19 Seconds (But SSD runs at half speed in this slot)
Slot 3 - 59 Seconds
Slot 4 - 59 Seconds
Warm Boot Tests:
Slot 2 - 14 Seconds
Slot 3 - 10 Seconds
Slot 4 - 11 Seconds
After doing a PRAM reset then an Option-Key boot. The Blade SSD is not found so no startup options there (not even the recovery option is found).
Next, booted to TM partition and used the menu bar to select my Blade SSD as the boot device. Funny how the TM can see it but Option-Key boot didn't. I then rebooted to the blade and got the same boot times as above.
Now with the proper SSD selected for boot I powered down the system and did a cold boot to the SSUBX blade. It was a 10 second cold boot.
Next, I powered down again and left the machine alone for 2 minutes, then booted to the cold SSUBX blade and it was back to 59 Second boot times. I guess this is the best I can get in Slots 3 & 4.
In Slot 2, I get consistent 18-19 second boot times but handicapped by the 2.5 GT/s connection, so it benches at 1/2 of it potential speed.
It's back in Slot 3 now, where it will stay and I just have to live with the 59 second cold boot times. That sucks and really takes the shine from it.
Below are some benchmarks.
I've asked many times if others are having similar experience with boot delays when using this card. I would very much appreciate it if someone else that owns one of these ssubx models would report their experiences too.
The benchmarks are slots 2, 3, 4. Starting with the top left(2), top right(3), then bottom(4)
Cold Boot Tests:
Slot 2 - 19 Seconds (But SSD runs at half speed in this slot)
Slot 3 - 59 Seconds
Slot 4 - 59 Seconds
Warm Boot Tests:
Slot 2 - 14 Seconds
Slot 3 - 10 Seconds
Slot 4 - 11 Seconds
After doing a PRAM reset then an Option-Key boot. The Blade SSD is not found so no startup options there (not even the recovery option is found).
Next, booted to TM partition and used the menu bar to select my Blade SSD as the boot device. Funny how the TM can see it but Option-Key boot didn't. I then rebooted to the blade and got the same boot times as above.
Now with the proper SSD selected for boot I powered down the system and did a cold boot to the SSUBX blade. It was a 10 second cold boot.
Next, I powered down again and left the machine alone for 2 minutes, then booted to the cold SSUBX blade and it was back to 59 Second boot times. I guess this is the best I can get in Slots 3 & 4.
In Slot 2, I get consistent 18-19 second boot times but handicapped by the 2.5 GT/s connection, so it benches at 1/2 of it potential speed.
It's back in Slot 3 now, where it will stay and I just have to live with the 59 second cold boot times. That sucks and really takes the shine from it.
Below are some benchmarks.
I've asked many times if others are having similar experience with boot delays when using this card. I would very much appreciate it if someone else that owns one of these ssubx models would report their experiences too.
The benchmarks are slots 2, 3, 4. Starting with the top left(2), top right(3), then bottom(4)
Attachments
You may have already tried this ... but did you strip your system down to bare minimum and test the boot time? No other cards besides the video and SSD, no external devices plugged in ... just the base system (might even remove internal drives just for kicks).
If no change ... PRAM reset, SMC reset, pet the cat, kiss the dog, spin around 3 times ... ... ... any changes?
Yeah ... with those speeds, who cares about boot time??
If no change ... PRAM reset, SMC reset, pet the cat, kiss the dog, spin around 3 times ... ... ... any changes?
Yeah ... with those speeds, who cares about boot time??
You may have already tried this ... but did you strip your system down to bare minimum and test the boot time? No other cards besides the video and SSD, no external devices plugged in ... just the base system (might even remove internal drives just for kicks).
If no change ... PRAM reset, SMC reset, pet the cat, kiss the dog, spin around 3 times ... ... ... any changes?
Yeah ... with those speeds, who cares about boot time??
Yes, that's exactly how I tested it. Taking it down to just the Video card and the blade SSD. I'm tired of testing it for today, but next week I plan to put it into Slot 1 and the video card into Slot 2. I'm also going to try it with a different video card after that. I have no expectation that this will solve the slow boot issue, but I have to try.
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Update.
Hello everybody!
I finally finished the upgrade of my cMP with the MZ-KPU1T0T/A06. Initially I did a clean install with Snow Leopard and yesterday I did a clean install with Mavericks as part of my testing.
This has been both a fun and instructive experience. I like to thank the creator of this thread, handheldgames, and all the people that contributed to it for sharing their knowledge.
In my Snow Leopard install System Profiler listed the MZ-KPU1T0T/A06 at Serial-ATA as "Unknown ACHI Standar Controller" and the Vendor was also "Unknown". As you can see in the snapshot things changed in the Mavericks install. In both (SN) and (M) Link Width was X4 and Link Speed was 5.0GT/s. But regardless of which version of OS X, I was amazed by the speed of this ssd. Cold boot are about 25 seconds and warm ones are 11 seconds... I'm thrilled!
I'm so happy with the end result that I decided to try to find either the MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 or the MZ-KPV1T0R/0A2 for a final upgrade to my cMP; so, if anyone of you guys knows of somebody selling either one of these ssd's, PLEASE tell me.
Hello everybody!
I finally finished the upgrade of my cMP with the MZ-KPU1T0T/A06. Initially I did a clean install with Snow Leopard and yesterday I did a clean install with Mavericks as part of my testing.
This has been both a fun and instructive experience. I like to thank the creator of this thread, handheldgames, and all the people that contributed to it for sharing their knowledge.
In my Snow Leopard install System Profiler listed the MZ-KPU1T0T/A06 at Serial-ATA as "Unknown ACHI Standar Controller" and the Vendor was also "Unknown". As you can see in the snapshot things changed in the Mavericks install. In both (SN) and (M) Link Width was X4 and Link Speed was 5.0GT/s. But regardless of which version of OS X, I was amazed by the speed of this ssd. Cold boot are about 25 seconds and warm ones are 11 seconds... I'm thrilled!
I'm so happy with the end result that I decided to try to find either the MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 or the MZ-KPV1T0R/0A2 for a final upgrade to my cMP; so, if anyone of you guys knows of somebody selling either one of these ssd's, PLEASE tell me.
Attachments
is there a reference anywhere that lists PCIe SSD with part numbers ?
once I have made a decision on my upgrade I don't want to make a mistake and order the wrong thing
once I have made a decision on my upgrade I don't want to make a mistake and order the wrong thing
Need advice.
Hello again!
I just finished my SSUAX project and now I want to go for the 1TB SSUBX. There are 5 of them here:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Samsu...351?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a08d9cb7
I sent 3 private messages asking for advice but I welcome any opinion as to whether this item is worth the $875 or not.
Thank's in advance for any advice!
Hello again!
I just finished my SSUAX project and now I want to go for the 1TB SSUBX. There are 5 of them here:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Samsu...351?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a08d9cb7
I sent 3 private messages asking for advice but I welcome any opinion as to whether this item is worth the $875 or not.
Thank's in advance for any advice!
Some thoughts rom the peanut gallery:
$825 is high, but this is a new product. Until more product appears in the channel, sellers will get a premium price. If you need the space today and have extra $$$, it's one heck of a fast PCIe SSD.
Yes, sadly while this thread has greatly increased knowledge it has also helped to greatly increase the price.
Those same drives were 200+ fewer dollars before he figured out what they were and that everyone wanted them.
Those same drives were 200+ fewer dollars before he figured out what they were and that everyone wanted them.