SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[yomibro]

Got delivery of my Sintech card and a 512 GB SSUBX from eBay yesterday, proceeded to install the card in slot 4 to get the full 5.0 link speed (left slot 3 open and moved USB 3 card to slot 2). Data read/writes tests fall within the range that everyone else is reporting, not seeing any boot time improvements compared to the 840 Pro but then again unless there is an update or if I leave for extended periods it's always on anyhow.

Just extended the life of the system another few years, nice to have TRIM support again.

 

[crjackson2134]

Got delivery of my Sintech card and a 512 GB SSUBX from eBay yesterday, proceeded to install the card in slot 4 to get the full 5.0 link speed (left slot 3 open and moved USB 3 card to slot 2). Data read/writes tests fall within the range that everyone else is reporting, not seeing any boot time improvements compared to the 840 Pro but then again unless there is an update or if I leave for extended periods it's always on anyhow.

Just extended the life of the system another few years, nice to have TRIM support again.

I recently installed the same hardware and posted about it here. I'm having very slow COLD boot times, the Sintech/SSUBX are causing a 60 second boot delay for me (blank whiteish screen, no Apple Logo). My 840 Pro/Solo x2 boots in less than half that time.

Do you have a 60 Second cold boot delay with the SSUBX? Warm boot is very fast however. What is the model No. of your SSUBX. I received an MA-JPV512R/A02.

 

[GregoryOrme]

Hi Gregory. I also had a tough time installing the SSD blade to the Lyncom DT120 adapter as the screw that came with it was too small. The fix I came up with was to use a bigger screw that I had as spare, with a bigger head and a bit longer that did the trick. The SSD works like a charm. Hope you get yours installed too.

I did. The answer was simple once I got Rod's message. I just never noticed that the standoff had a place for screws on both sides and that the second screw was to fasten down the blade to the standoff. The semicircle at the end of the blade and the groove in the standoff I had both visually led me to believe that the standoff was somehow supposed to fit within that semicircle area--it does not, nor was it intended to. Once I quit believing my own eyes and started reading what Rod wrote, the SM951 blade was incredibly easy to install on the Lycom. Never let it be said that I am afraid of revealing my own ignorance if it will solve the problem or, in this case, hopefully help others.

 

[yomibro]

I recently installed the same hardware and posted about it here. I'm having very slow COLD boot times, the Sintech/SSUBX are causing a 60 second boot delay for me (blank whiteish screen, no Apple Logo). My 840 Pro/Solo x2 boots in less than half that time.

Do you have a 60 Second cold boot delay with the SSUBX? Warm boot is very fast however. What is the model No. of your SSUBX. I received an MA-JPV512R/A02.

Averaging 40 sec cold boot, got a MZ-JPV512R/0A2 with what I believe to be a manufacturing date of 2014.08 (stamped on far left side of S/N).

 

[crjackson2134]

Good to know. Thanks for the reply.

 

[handheldgames]

Good to know. Thanks for the reply.

I'm booting again. PCIe Slot #2 does not support a bitruficated connection and has put my original 2009 in a non bootable state. Yikes. I've been meaning to test your request for boot times on the SSUBX, but have had some mis-steps along the way. It's great to see cold boot times from another member. Disconnecting your DVD may also improve boot speed as well.

 

[crjackson2134]

I'm booting again. PCIe Slot #2 does not support a bitruficated connection and has put my original 2009 in a non bootable state. Yikes. I've been meaning to test your request for boot times on the SSUBX, but have had some mis-steps along the way. It's great to see cold boot times from another member. Disconnecting your DVD may also improve boot speed as well.

I'm considering putting it back into Sot 2 at 2.5GT/s since the cold boot time is only 19 Seconds there (41 Seconds faster than any other slot, and 10 Seconds faster than the 840 Pro). The data transfer rate is half the speed in Slot 2, but I only use this drive for booting and program loading. Since it's not used for storage, I'm thinking that at 700+ GB/s I won't even notice the speed reduction for those purposes. I think this will get me back to stock boot speeds, and transfer speeds that still exceed any single SATA SSD's , and it adds native Trim support.

I'll have to think on this a while.

 

[GregoryOrme]

SM951s in Various Positions

Nothing revelatory here, but I tried the SM951 512GB in various places and in RAID 0 combinations. I believe my results were consistent with what others have reported. This is using BlackMagic on 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 updated to 5,1, with 2 x 2.26 Xeon Quad processors, stock 7200 1 TB drive, 8GB RAM, and running 10.10.3. I had the usual trappings running in the background (for example, the Wi-Fi was running and there were some Web-based drives lurking). I took screenshots if anyone wants to see details, but I believe I will spare you those for now since we are dealing in generalities. All numbers are sequential read/write in MB/s with default setting on BlackMagic.

7200: 84.5/81.6
SM951 in Slot 2: 736.4/763.3
SM951 in Slot 3: 1427.9/1393.2
SM951s in RAID 0 in Slots 2 and 3: 1357.3/1398.1
SM951s in RAID 0 in Slots 3 and 4: 1383.4/1431.5

I tested the SM951 as a boot drive with the 10.10.3 installed and also tested it booting off the 7200 HDD. There was so significant difference in speed. I figured the theoretical maximum would be 1500MB/s, so I was not disappointed in the numbers for a single drive. I already knew the various limitations of RAID 0 with the SM951 (half-speed in Slot 2 and Slots 3 and 4 sharing resources), and these tests confirmed those issues.

I am waiting on an XP941 512 that I got off eBay for $300 and change. It is coming by mule from Oregon and should be here any month now. I am tracking the progress online, and every day seems to bring it a mile or two closer. When it arrives, I hope to run a similar bank of tests if I still feel young enough to do so.

In the meantime, no complaints with SM951 as a single drive in Slot 3.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

SATA Express meets the '09 MacPro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

I recently installed the same hardware and posted about it here. I'm having very slow COLD boot times, the Sintech/SSUBX are causing a 60 second boot delay for me (blank whiteish screen, no Apple Logo). My 840 Pro/Solo x2 boots in less than half that time.

Do you have a 60 Second cold boot delay with the SSUBX? Warm boot is very fast however. What is the model No. of your SSUBX. I received an MA-JPV512R/A02.

There must be a technical explenation for longer boot times, after installing my Caldigit FAST PRO, mine increased to ~45 secs, or are we to obsessed by it!

Do you shut down your MP every night? I'm not that bothered by the ~45 secs occasional boots, my MP works very solid, fast enough to my likings and needs, so in your case I would opt for the fastest - after boot - solution!

Good luck in finding your booty sweet spot! ;-)

Cheers

 

[analog900]

I'm considering putting it back into Sot 2 at 2.5GT/s since the cold boot time is only 19 Seconds there (41 Seconds faster than any other slot, and 10 Seconds faster than the 840 Pro). The data transfer rate is half the speed in Slot 2, but I only use this drive for booting and program loading. Since it's not used for storage, I'm thinking that at 700+ GB/s I won't even notice the speed reduction for those purposes. I think this will get me back to stock boot speeds, and transfer speeds that still exceed any single SATA SSD's , and it adds native Trim support.

I'll have to think on this a while.

Honest question: how often do you cold-boot your Mac Pro? My 3,1 hasn't been cold booted in more than a month. I just put it to sleep every night. As long as it doesn't run out of RAM, I don't turn it off / restart.
I understand the long cold-boot time must be aggravating, but it that's the only issue, I personally would live with it.

 

[crjackson2134]

There must be a technical explenation for longer boot times, after installing my Caldigit FAST PRO, mine increased to ~45 secs, or are we to obsessed by it!

Do you shut down your MP every night? I'm not that bothered by the ~45 secs occasional boots, my MP works very solid, fast enough to my likings and needs, so in your case I would opt for the fastest - after boot - solution!

Good luck in finding your booty sweet spot! ;-)

Cheers

Mine gets booted several times a day. I don't want to go into great detail as to why, but it has to do with other people constantly wanting to use my machine rather than their own. Leaving it on is not an option for me right now. If it's powered off, no one touches it and no one pesters me about using it. If it's sleeping, it's a constant request/denial cycle. I hate that... Less arguing if it's only turned on when I'm sitting in front of it.

----------

Honest question: how often do you cold-boot your Mac Pro? My 3,1 hasn't been cold booted in more than a month. I just put it to sleep every night. As long as it doesn't run out of RAM, I don't turn it off / restart.
I understand the long cold-boot time must be aggravating, but it that's the only issue, I personally would live with it.

Part of the answer is above. I may or may not live with it. I'm trying to get used to it, but if I don't make peace with the issue, I'll sell it off and get one of the faster booting, slower operating models. My original goal was for a faster boot & native trim. It certainly does not satisfy the the faster boot goal.

 

[Raunien]

Hey guys,

Been reading through this thread and I'm excited to try this upgrade.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Samsu...940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43db1e1274

For this SSD, I'm planning on using this with a syntech adapter.

1. For the SSD, is this a x2 or x4 ssd? I'm still not sure what this means exactly, but it sounds like x4 would be faster. Basically, is this a ssubx or ssuax drive?

2. Once I've plugged it in, what slot should I put it in? 2, 3, or 4? 3 or 4 seems to have a boot delay but 2 has lower R/W speeds?

3. Finally, is this SSD bootable from a cold boot?

 

[crjackson2134]

Hey guys,

Been reading through this thread and I'm excited to try this upgrade.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Samsu...940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43db1e1274

For this SSD, I'm planning on using this with a syntech adapter.

1. For the SSD, is this a x2 or x4 ssd? I'm still not sure what this means exactly, but it sounds like x4 would be faster.

2. Once I've plugged it in, what slot should I put it in? 2, 3, or 4? 3 or 4 seems to have a boot delay but 2 has lower R/W speeds?

3. Finally, is this SSD bootable from a cold boot?

1) I believe that one is a 2x (SSUAX 512GB). It's pushing data through 2 PCIe lanes instead of 4.

2) I don't think this model with have any boot delay. I should work fine in any slot. If I'm wrong some will correct me.

3) Yes

 

[handheldgames]

That is a x2 part, with a top speed < 800MB/s. Apple's slowest offering.
In the lower left corner of the SSD label is the size and revision.
in this case: 512GB size and SSUAX revision.
No cold boot delay, fwiw... I rarely cold boot.

1TB versions of the Apple Samsung SSUAX chips are x4 and run around 1000MB/s, a bit slower than the XP941.
All XP941's are x4 and the 512 version can be picked up between 300-400ish (requires a different adapter). So a higher performance level for the same price.

The 512GB SSUBX that hits 1500MB/S read/writes goes for around $430. The fastest option available today for the cMP.

Hey guys,

Been reading through this thread and I'm excited to try this upgrade.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Samsu...940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43db1e1274

For this SSD, I'm planning on using this with a syntech adapter.

1. For the SSD, is this a x2 or x4 ssd? I'm still not sure what this means exactly, but it sounds like x4 would be faster.

2. Once I've plugged it in, what slot should I put it in? 2, 3, or 4? 3 or 4 seems to have a boot delay but 2 has lower R/W speeds?

3. Finally, is this SSD bootable from a cold boot?

 

[Raunien]

That is a x2 part, with a top speed < 800MB/s.
In the lower left corner of the SSD label is the size and revision.
in this case: 512GB size and SSUAX revision.
Image

1TB versions of the Apple Samsung SSUAX chips are x4 and run around 1000MB/s, a bit slower than the XP941.
All XP941's are x4 and the 512 version can be picked up between 300-400ish (requires a different adapter). So a higher performance level for the same price.

The 512GB SSUBX that hits 1500MB/S read/writes goes for around $430. The fastest option available today for the cMP.

Thank you, appreciate the fast response.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

Mine gets booted several times a day. I don't want to go into great detail as to why, but it has to do with other people constantly wanting to use my machine rather than their own. Leaving it on is not an option for me right now. If it's powered off, no one touches it and no one pesters me about using it. If it's sleeping, it's a constant request/denial cycle. I hate that... Less arguing if it's only turned on when I'm sitting in front of it.

----------



Part of the answer is above. I may or may not live with it. I'm trying to get used to it, but if I don't make peace with the issue, I'll sell it off and get one of the faster booting, slower operating models. My original goal was for a faster boot & native trim. It certainly does not satisfy the the faster boot goal.

Thanks for explaining! But it is unlikely that a MP will endure constant cycling on and off? I'm for sure not a tech guy but I can imagine cycling power has its limits where it concerns electronics and specially hardware with rotating elements.

Perhaps some tech MR member could shed some light over this?

Anyway I understand your need for faster boot times, hope you'll succeed!

Cheers

 

[handheldgames]

Thanks for the further details. The SM951 crippled to run as 2.5GT/s in a x16 slot is the major issue here. Placing x4 SSUAX or x4 XP941 brings the raid 0 numbers up to 2200 MB/s +

Nothing revelatory here, but I tried the SM951 512GB in various places and in RAID 0 combinations. I believe my results were consistent with what others have reported. This is using BlackMagic on 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 updated to 5,1, with 2 x 2.26 Xeon Quad processors, stock 7200 1 TB drive, 8GB RAM, and running 10.10.3. I had the usual trappings running in the background (for example, the Wi-Fi was running and there were some Web-based drives lurking). I took screenshots if anyone wants to see details, but I believe I will spare you those for now since we are dealing in generalities. All numbers are sequential read/write in MB/s with default setting on BlackMagic.

7200: 84.5/81.6
SM951 in Slot 2: 736.4/763.3
SM951 in Slot 3: 1427.9/1393.2
SM951s in RAID 0 in Slots 2 and 3: 1357.3/1398.1
SM951s in RAID 0 in Slots 3 and 4: 1383.4/1431.5

I tested the SM951 as a boot drive with the 10.10.3 installed and also tested it booting off the 7200 HDD. There was so significant difference in speed. I figured the theoretical maximum would be 1500MB/s, so I was not disappointed in the numbers for a single drive. I already knew the various limitations of RAID 0 with the SM951 (half-speed in Slot 2 and Slots 3 and 4 sharing resources), and these tests confirmed those issues.

I am waiting on an XP941 512 that I got off eBay for $300 and change. It is coming by mule from Oregon and should be here any month now. I am tracking the progress online, and every day seems to bring it a mile or two closer. When it arrives, I hope to run a similar bank of tests if I still feel young enough to do so.

In the meantime, no complaints with SM951 as a single drive in Slot 3.

 

[crjackson2134]

Thanks for explaining! But it is unlikely that a MP will endure constant cycling on and off? I'm for sure not a tech guy but I can imagine cycling power has its limits where it concerns electronics and specially hardware with rotating elements.

Perhaps some tech MR member could shed some light over this?

Anyway I understand your need for faster boot times, hope you'll succeed!

Cheers

Well, it's not constant. Just on particular days. I spend a lot of time in the hospital as well, so there are times it goes for a couple of weeks of non-use.

Anyway, I may just put it in Slot 2. It boots fast there and it's still way faster than my 840 Pro.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

SATA Express meets the '09 MacPro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

Well, it's not constant. Just on particular days. I spend a lot of time in the hospital as well, so there are times it goes for a couple of weeks of non-use.



Anyway, I may just put it in Slot 2. It boots fast there and it's still way faster than my 840 Pro.

My bad, I assumed it was on a daily bases. Anyway enjoy yours while in slot #2. As stated in other threads my boot times increased x2 after installing the CalDigit Fast Pro (~45s) , but I'm happy with the overall online performance of my current setup! ;-)

Sorry to hear you spend so much time in the hospital. Get well soon! Good luck & a Cheers for your health!

LeChaim!

 

[MacVidCards]

Trouble in Paradise? SM951 512GB running at x2?

So I wanted to join the fun and I ordered an SM951.

I pulled a SP941 from my adapter and put it in slot 3, eager for high speeds. Instead I got 750 or so.

It was running at x2 lanes at 5.0.

I tried moving it to slot 2, and got 2.5 GT/s, for some really lousy speed 375 or so.

Anyone have a guess what's going on? Wish there was a way to turn a x16 PCIE 2.0 into a x4 PCIE 3.0.

Bad card? New revision going to burn us? (From 4/15)

Not much use, and certainly not worth paying $500 for half the speed of the older blade.

 

[GregoryOrme]

So I wanted to join the fun and I ordered an SM951.

I pulled a SP941 from my adapter and put it in slot 3, eager for high speeds. Instead I got 750 or so.

It was running at x2 lanes at 5.0.

I tried moving it to slot 2, and got 2.5 GT/s, for some really lousy speed 375 or so.

Anyone have a guess what's going on? Wish there was a way to turn a x16 PCIE 2.0 into a x4 PCIE 3.0.

Bad card? New revision going to burn us? (From 4/15)

Not much use, and certainly not worth paying $500 for half the speed of the older blade.

Well, it's not as if those are not high speeds, but they are not what you should expect, either. As noted just above, I was getting 1427.9/1393.2 in a rather mundane configuration of a cMP 4,1/5,1. 750 for sequential read seems abnormally slow. The cards I tested were all 2015.3, whereas yours is a 2015.4, but there shouldn't be that much of a fall off the cliff, especially in Slot 3, which has proven to be a sweet spot. I wish I could be of more help. I would definitely see about swapping out that drive for another SM951, as I and others can attest they should be faster.

 

[MacVidCards]

Gregory, can you post an image of yours?

I'm curious if any other part numbers are different.

 

[GregoryOrme]

gregory, can you post an image of yours?

I'm curious if any other part numbers are different.

 

[GregoryOrme]

I'm considering putting it back into Sot 2 at 2.5GT/s since the cold boot time is only 19 Seconds there (41 Seconds faster than any other slot, and 10 Seconds faster than the 840 Pro). The data transfer rate is half the speed in Slot 2, but I only use this drive for booting and program loading. Since it's not used for storage, I'm thinking that at 700+ GB/s I won't even notice the speed reduction for those purposes. I think this will get me back to stock boot speeds, and transfer speeds that still exceed any single SATA SSD's , and it adds native Trim support.

I'll have to think on this a while.

I have the Samsung variant SM951 (512GB) in Slot 3. I was getting chime-to-login times of about a minute with the stock drive, but the SM951 shortened that time to about 16 seconds. I am just testing, so I have no other files loaded besides the OS, but I do still have the stock drive (also with OS loaded) installed. I believe your card is just the Apple version of the SM951, but I am seeing from reading the board that there are different variants within the model.

 

[crjackson2134]

I have the Samsung variant SM951 (512GB) in Slot 3. I was getting chime-to-login times of about a minute with the stock drive, but the SM951 shortened that time to about 16 seconds. I am just testing, so I have no other files loaded besides the OS, but I do still have the stock drive (also with OS loaded) installed. I believe your card is just the Apple version of the SM951, but I am seeing from reading the board that there are different variants within the model.

I wish I was getting 16 Seconds. My Samsung 840 Pro on a solo x2 is about 20 Seconds boot. The Apple/Samsung is taking 3 times that to boot. Since I'm 300 Mi. Away from my machine right now, it's not annoying me.