SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[edcopr]

I was just thinking the same.

@handheldgames

Thank you again. It always happens the same with anything new... prices are high. But I'm thinking more in therms of performance and that is always expensive.

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Yes, sadly while this thread has greatly increased knowledge it has also helped to greatly increase the price.

Those same drives were 200+ fewer dollars before he figured out what they were and that everyone wanted them.

When I saw the price today I thought exactly the same thing you just said.

 

[handheldgames]

I've updated the first post with a Spring 2015 update. If there are any posts you would like noted, please send me a PM and I'll update the first post.

Multi-PCIe SSD Adapter for the cMP and PC
FWIW, I've started reaching out to OEM/ODM vendors for a quote on producing a x8 or x16 PLX based multiple PCIe SSD adapter. Once I can find a viable factory it's my intention to go for funding on Kickstarter. My 1st reach out was to Eagle Liu, Sales manager at Sintech: He is concerned that the cost of the PLX chip will push adapter cost too high.

In my best guesstimates, a qual or quad PCIe SSD adapter should come in at a final cost $100 +/-. What are your thoughts on the pricing?

 

[bl4ck4dd3r]

I've updated the first post with a Spring 2015 update. If there are any posts you would like noted, please send me a PM and I'll update the first post.

excellent, thank you, just what I was looking for summary wise.

however :-

Samsung SM951 - a 3D nand SSD delivering 1500MB/s R/W performance to the cMP available in 256GB($260ish), 512GB($450ish)
Samsung XP941 - a 3D nand SSD delivering 1100MB/s R/W performance to the cMP available in 256GB($260ish), 512GB($450ish)

the SM951 are costlier, surely?

 

[box185]

Some thoughts rom the peanut gallery:

$825 is high, but this is a new product. Until more product appears in the channel, sellers will get a premium price. If you need the space today and have extra $$$, it's one heck of a fast PCIe SSD.

The eBay listing appears to have been changed to $725 for now.

 

[handheldgames]

excellent, thank you, just what I was looking for summary wise.

however :-


the SM951 are costlier, surely?

There hasn't been a price drop in the xp941 with the introduction of the SM951. Comparing pricing between 512gb versions, there is a $20 price difference between the two at the same vendor. The PCIe SSD market appears to holding at 400-500 for 512gb parts based on several recently released products that are posed to give Samsung some healthy competition.

 

[edcopr]

No, it hasn't!

The eBay listing appears to have been changed to $725 for now.

This might not be important to some people, but when I have to buy expensive hardware I always try to buy it new. It's true that there is a listing of the 1TB SSUBX for $725, but the 1TB SSUBX for $875 is 1 month newer according to production date on the product. The $725 says "2014-07" and the $875 says "2014-08". I'm not rich but in this case I decided to pic the $875 because it was the newest release available. Like I said, this might not be important to some people but it is to me.

Both listings are from the same vendor and he knows what he has in his hands. The trend in technology is that the newest tend to be expensier until the market is saturated with the given item.

Another important factor that I took into consideration was that this items comes with a limited life expectancy and since I'm planning to use it a lot I had to buy the newest available.

 

[kennyman]

I'm using a Lyncom adapter with a 256gb Samsung XP941. So far the SSD is still bootable coming from sleep. Though I could not comment on a 512g SSD size.

Thanks, it looks like the 512 also is fine, but you I need the revision 1 ones.

 

[handheldgames]

Thanks, it looks like the 512 also is fine, but you I need the revision 1 ones.

Great to hear there the sleep issues were addressed with an identifiable revision to the SSD. Too bad there isn't a facility to upgrade the firmware on rev 1 parts as with SATA SSD's.

IMO the engineers and QA at Samsung fail to test their product designs on a direct PCIe connection vs a bridged connection.

I'm looking forward to testing the SSUBX in slot 2 behind a x16 gen2 PLX adapter and a x16 bitruficated extender.

 

[crjackson2134]

Great to hear there the sleep issues were addressed with an identifiable revision to the SSD. Too bad there isn't a facility to upgrade the firmware on rev 1 parts as with SATA SSD's.

IMO the engineers and QA at Samsung fail to test their product designs on a direct PCIe connection vs a bridged connection.

I'm looking forward to testing the SSUBX in slot 2 behind a x16 gen2 PLX adapter and a x16 bitruficated extender.

If it will get me out of the 60 Second boot times, I'd buy one.

You never did replay to my question though.

Since you have the exact same SSUBX 512 model I have, I was hoping you could tell me if you also have the one minute boot delay when cold booting.

 

[GregoryOrme]

excellent, thank you, just what I was looking for summary wise.

however :-


the SM951 are costlier, surely?

For whatever reason, the SM951 is relatively cheap at the moment on eBay and Amazon Marketplace. Prices are all over the map, but the best prices are under $500 for a 512GB version on Amazon Marketplace. I am waiting on an XP941 to put in Slot 2 of my cMP and set up a RAID 0 with the SM951 in Slot 3. Cindori has debuted a new application to manually TRIM these drives in Yosemite. They seem, for whatever reason, to be faster than the Apple versions.

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Great to hear there the sleep issues were addressed with an identifiable revision to the SSD. Too bad there isn't a facility to upgrade the firmware on rev 1 parts as with SATA SSD's.

IMO the engineers and QA at Samsung fail to test their product designs on a direct PCIe connection vs a bridged connection.

I'm looking forward to testing the SSUBX in slot 2 behind a x16 gen2 PLX adapter and a x16 bitruficated extender.

I am looking forward to you testing this too!

 

[bl4ck4dd3r]

here in the UK as I type the XP941 is £330 and the SM951 is £380.
I do have them price watched though

 

[sim667]

Thanks for maintaining this thread...... Its been recommended I come in here to enquire about a PCIe adapter for an SSD that will be 100% compatible with a mac pro 2008 (3,1 i think).

Im going to have a in-depth read through the OP, but I've been thinking about an apricorn x2 solo, with a samsung evo 850 1tb.

 

[GregoryOrme]

Thanks for maintaining this thread...... Its been recommended I come in here to enquire about a PCIe adapter for an SSD that will be 100% compatible with a mac pro 2008 (3,1 i think).

Im going to have a in-depth read through the OP, but I've been thinking about an apricorn x2 solo, with a samsung evo 850 1tb.

I have a Samsung 840 EVO (not in a Mac) and it was a marked improvement over the stock HDD. The 850 EVO is rated up to 540MB/s read and 520MB/s write. That being said, the 840 EVO had issues, compelling Samsung to issue two patches for it. To my knowledge, these issues did not seem to present themselves on the PRO models or the 850 EVO. It is comparitively budget-friendly ($397.99 today on Amazon for 1TB model). The Early 2008 (3,1) Mac Pro does have PCIe 2.0, which I believe will allow it to use drives at higher speeds than previous models; however, Apricorn does caution that drives using the Velocity Solo x1 will not boot reliably on the 3,1. Much of the messages here regard the faster Apple and Samsung blades with their respective adapters, and these may also be considerations. Barefeats reported speeds in 2008 model equivalent with 2009 and later towers provided the 2.0 slots were used.

 

[sim667]

I have a Samsung 840 EVO (not in a Mac) and it was a marked improvement over the stock HDD. The 850 EVO is rated up to 540MB/s read and 520MB/s write. That being said, the 840 EVO had issues compelling Samsung to issue two patches for it. To my knowledge, these issues did not seem to present themselves on the PRO models or the 850 EVO. It is comparitively budget-friendly ($397.99 today on Amazon for 1TB model). The Early 2008 (3,1) Mac Pro does have PCIe 2.0, which I believe will allow it to use drives at higher speeds than previous models; however, Apricorn does caution that drives using the Velocity Solo x1 will not boot reliably on the 3,1. Much of the messages here regard the faster Apple and Samsung blades with their respective adapters, and these may also be considerations. Barefeats reported speeds in 2008 model equivalent with 2009 and later towers provided the 2.0 slots were used.

Thanks for the info, do you know of any adapters that do reliably boot?

The other alternative I guess would be to install one in place of my did drive, but I like having a dvd drive

 

[IowaLynn]

Thanks for maintaining this thread...... Its been recommended I come in here to enquire about a PCIe adapter for an SSD that will be 100% compatible with a mac pro 2008 (3,1 i think).

Im going to have a in-depth read through the OP, but I've been thinking about an apricorn x2 solo, with a samsung evo 850 1tb.

That, using Velocity controller, is fine but a separate discussion.
If you want a fast reliable blade, not your standard SATA form factor, M.2 style have built in support (somehow) for even Mac Pro 1,1 and above since Leopard.

Cost more, perform faster, and even the XP941 128GB $139 (400MB/sec writes and 700-800MB/sec reads) is a fine device.

 

[GregoryOrme]

Using a Samsung XP941 256gb SSD on a Lyncom DT120 adapter. Working fine and bootable. Fast Boot up time at 19 secs starting from the chime sound. The icon of the SSD appears as an orange external HD on the desktop. Apps open noticeably faster and snappier. Using Mountain Lion 10.8.3.

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I see you got an XP941 installed in a Lycom DT-120. I am trying to do the same with an SM951, but the drive appears thicker than the length of the supplied screws. I actually took one screw out because the drive was certainly not going to lie flat with it in. Is there a trick to this?

 

[RamCity]

I see you got an XP941 installed in a Lycom DT-120. I am trying to do the same with an SM951, but the drive appears thicker than the length of the supplied screws. I actually took one screw out because the drive was certainly not going to lie flat with it in. Is there a trick to this?

I usually find that the DT-120 is supplied with the stand-off in the 60mm hole. You need to move this to the 80mm hole. The SSD will then sit nicely against the stand-off, then secure the drive to the standoff with the additional screw supplied.

 

[GregoryOrme]

I usually find that the DT-120 is supplied with the stand-off in the 60mm hole. You need to move this to the 80mm hole. The SSD will then sit nicely against the stand-off, then secure the drive to the standoff with the additional screw supplied.

Thanks, Rod. I don't know 60mm from 80mm, but I did remove the standoff from the middle part of the adapter and put it on the end farthest from where the drive connects to the adapter. With the standoff positioned there prior to putting the drive in, the standoff blocked the end of the drive. If I put the drive in first, there seemed to be no way to thread the screw into the standoff to hold it in place, as the screw was so short. So, I guess it's the "sit nicely" part that I am missing! Just wondered if maybe there was something I am missing, but will try again.

 

[RamCity]

Thanks, Rod. I don't know 60mm from 80mm, but I did remove the standoff from the middle part of the adapter and put it on the end farthest from where the drive connects to the adapter. With the standoff positioned there prior to putting the drive in, the standoff blocked the end of the drive. If I put the drive in first, there seemed to be no way to thread the screw into the standoff to hold it in place, as the screw was so short. So, I guess it's the "sit nicely" part that I am missing! Just wondered if maybe there was something I am missing, but will try again.

Note, that the SSD will require a bit of 'wriggling' to get it into the socket properly. You should also have two separate screws. One holds the stand-off to the board from the underside. The other secures the SSD to the stand-off. I took some pics which hopefully will help.


Image 1

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Image 4

 

[msbc]

Rod,

I purchased an SM951 and adapter from you and it's working great in my MP5,1.

I've just purchased a 512GB SSUUBX revision SSD blade on ebay and wondering if you have the adapter for that blade?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[RamCity]

Rod,

I purchased an SM951 and adapter from you and it's working great in my MP5,1.

I've just purchased a 512GB SSUUBX revision SSD blade on ebay and wondering if you have the adapter for that blade?

Thanks,
Mark

Hi Mark,

Sorry I can't help there. We don't do much with the Apple version SSD's as the source of supply is never certain. However, if you take a look at the sintech website you should be able to find the part you are looking for. There are usually sellers on Amazon.com with their products as well.

cheers, Rod

 

[GregoryOrme]

Note, that the SSD will require a bit of 'wriggling' to get it into the socket properly. You should also have two separate screws. One holds the stand-off to the board from the underside. The other secures the SSD to the stand-off. I took some pics which hopefully will help.


Image 1

Image 2

Image 3

Image 4

Rod, thank you so much. That was great. I figured it was just the usual case of me not knowing what I was doing. I greatly appreciate the help!

 

[RamCity]

...They don’t want to pay for the latest SSUBX drives incl. import taxes from the US and want at least onboard Garbage Collection so XP941/SM951’s are out.

Cheers.

I'm curious about this statement. Where is it stated that the XP941/SM951 doesn't have built-in garbage collection?

 

[crjackson2134]

My understanding is that if it supports Trim, it has garbage collection.

Trim is only a dispatcher. It tells GC where there is garbage that needs to be collected. Trim is NOT a form of GC, just a good administrative assistant for the File System, and a dispatcher for the actual GC.

 

[Macsonic]

I see you got an XP941 installed in a Lycom DT-120. I am trying to do the same with an SM951, but the drive appears thicker than the length of the supplied screws. I actually took one screw out because the drive was certainly not going to lie flat with it in. Is there a trick to this?

Hi Gregory. I also had a tough time installing the SSD blade to the Lyncom DT120 adapter as the screw that came with it was too small. The fix I came up with was to use a bigger screw that I had as spare, with a bigger head and a bit longer that did the trick. The SSD works like a charm. Hope you get yours installed too.