Should I leave apple ecosystem in light of CSAM?

[crymimefireworks]

Well, he’s right, I don’t have anything to say. I’m honestly an ignoramus.

Missed opportunity by Ed Snowden - quote should be:

“Saying ‘I don’t care about privacy because I have nothing to hide’ is no different than saying, ‘I don’t care about freedom of speech because I have nothing to say and no one else has anything to say either,’”

 

[jseymour]

So some of y'all think this is all about "the children," eh? I'm not buying it, and neither is Reason Magazine:

EARN IT Act Abuses Privacy in the Guise of Protecting Kids
It probably won't save any children, but it might mean the end of encrypted messaging.
J.D. TUCCILLE | 2.16.2022 7:00 AM

Governments have never liked it when their subjects keep secrets from them and they really don't like encryption technology, which makes it easier for people to conceal their messages from prying eyes. But the public hasn't been buying the eavesdropping that politicians are selling. So, the powers-that-be moved on to claiming that they're concerned about protecting the children and just incidentally restricting the use of techniques for protecting privacy. The EARN IT Act is the latest effort to invade our communications, and its advocates occasionally let the mask slip.

Full article: EARN IT Act Abuses Privacy in the Guise of Protecting Kids

"But... but.. but..." proponents and defenders of Apple's proposed spyware will protest "On-device scanning will preserve end-to-end encryption (EE2E). To that I respond: What good EE2E if the communications to be encrypted are "tapped" before they're encrypted (or after they're decrypted)?

I guarantee you: Except on the part of the useful idiots myopically focused only on "But it's for the children!", nobody's doing this stuff "for the children." Governments don't like not being able to spy on their citizens and have been trying to defeat encryption ever since Phillip Zimmerman won his battle with the U.S. government over Pretty Good Privacy, which they did their utmost to try to kill in its infancy--for everybody's use but their own, naturally.

That's what this attack on privacy and security is really about.

 

[MozMan68]

So some of y'all think this is all about "the children," eh? I'm not buying it, and neither is Reason Magazine:

Full article: EARN IT Act Abuses Privacy in the Guise of Protecting Kids

"But... but.. but..." proponents and defenders of Apple's proposed spyware will protest "On-device scanning will preserve end-to-end encryption (EE2E). To that I respond: What good EE2E if the communications to be encrypted are "tapped" before they're encrypted (or after they're decrypted)?

I guarantee you: Except on the part of the useful idiots myopically focused only on "But it's for the children!", nobody's doing this stuff "for the children." Governments don't like not being able to spy on their citizens and have been trying to defeat encryption ever since Phillip Zimmerman won his battle with the U.S. government over Pretty Good Privacy, which they did their utmost to try to kill in its infancy--for everybody's use but their own, naturally.

That's what this attack on privacy and security is really about.

...except that what Apple is proposing has absolutely nothing to do with any request from a government and they have been very consistent in following all privacy laws when requested to provide information.

I know it is convenient to forget that this is a company working with a NON-GOVERNMENT entity, but that isn't as sexy as "the government is trying to spy on us" arguments a lot of you are putting forth.

Which now the answer from many of you will be, "...but how long before the government steps in now that this tech exists?"...never ending....can we deal with the actual facts here instead of speculation? Answering my own question: "no...we can't...that ruins the argument..."

 

[dk001]

...except that what Apple is proposing has absolutely nothing to do with any request from a government and they have been very consistent in following all privacy laws when requested to provide information.

I know it is convenient to forget that this is a company working with a NON-GOVERNMENT entity, but that isn't as sexy as "the government is trying to spy on us" arguments a lot of you are putting forth.

Which now the answer from many of you will be, "...but how long before the government steps in now that this tech exists?"...never ending....can we deal with the actual facts here instead of speculation? Answering my own question: "no...we can't...that ruins the argument..."

One of the challenges with things like this is far too many, actually most, just look at the surface and not how something could be leveraged by Governments.

 

[MozMan68]

One of the challenges with things like this is far too many, actually most, just look at the surface and not how something could be leveraged by Governments.

The real challenge is that your statement can be applied to EVERY instance of new tech...I'm just saying that we can't have a "the sky is falling" explosion of uneducated comments with nothing but "what if's" every time something comes out.

The example I responded to about actual government trying to introduce laws that DOES let them spy on us is a lot different than a company that has shown to protect privacy as much as possible considering the information/usability they are trying to provide at the same time. The leap to somehow make people believe they are one in the same is ridiculous IMHO.

 

[Asonando]

There was a good film on this topic 20 years ago with Will Smith "Enemy of the State". But in fact we are all moving towards an absolutely transparent world, soon there will be no more privacy.

 

[twdawson]

There was a good film on this topic 20 years ago with Will Smith "Enemy of the State". But in fact we are all moving towards an absolutely transparent world, soon there will be no more privacy.

That was a good film and I only watched it recently.
To be honest I think we have lost all hope of privacy now.

 

[dk001]

The real challenge is that your statement can be applied to EVERY instance of new tech...I'm just saying that we can't have a "the sky is falling" explosion of uneducated comments with nothing but "what if's" every time something comes out.

The example I responded to about actual government trying to introduce laws that DOES let them spy on us is a lot different than a company that has shown to protect privacy as much as possible considering the information/usability they are trying to provide at the same time. The leap to somehow make people believe they are one in the same is ridiculous IMHO.

You are quite right. There are some thing that fall into that bucket.
I personally never did this until the infamous Apple vs FBI San Bernardino event.
and the latest CSAM Tool. Now it has become habit.

 

[dk001]

There was a good film on this topic 20 years ago with Will Smith "Enemy of the State". But in fact we are all moving towards an absolutely transparent world, soon there will be no more privacy.

Maybe I am being optimistic but I see future privacy not so much that data can be seen rather what is done with it.
I still see personal privacy though. Wonder where encryption is heading?

 

[Omega Mac]

Yea CSAM has put a complete stop to any future Apple device purchases, why I'm even thinking about killing the music subs too as I'm finding the whole "political b*llshit" as Tim Cook phrased it once of Tim Cook & Co a stinking pile and wish not to fund it.

I started thinking about life without an iPhone, I don't even make that many calls anymore, I could live without it actually.

Right now however I need to restore a 14.x backup to an iPhone that's on an older iOS, running the phone to phone forces a 15.4 update! The user does not want that. They want what they have as is. 14.x and that is that, they do not want to upgrade to CSAM ville.

Any tips or work arounds to restore to a device that has an older iOS?

You'd think the thing would just write over with the new version.

 

[Shirasaki]

Backup made in new version of iOS will not work with older versions of iOS. Piece meal parts of the information together theoretically can work somewhat but you have to invest lots of time to test.

For the same version iOS restore, try to use third party software like iMazing to see if something good will happen. iTunes will more than likely demand you to upgrade to new iOS version since older ones are not signed by Apple anymore.

 

[Octavius8]

I fail to grasp the bottom line impact for me as a “normal” individual. I am not a politician nor anyone important subject to be concerned with some degree of “information leaked”.
Even I have come to terms that my emails can be read by yahoo, Google and Microsoft because they are “free”, I am not paying for a email server, so that is the “price of free” and for me, it is acceptable.
For really secret data I would
Choose other mechanisms to protect the confidentiality.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I fail to grasp the bottom line impact for me as a “normal” individual. I am not a politician nor anyone important subject to be concerned with some degree of “information leaked”.
Even I have come to terms that my emails can be read by yahoo, Google and Microsoft because they are “free”, I am not paying for a email server, so that is the “price of free” and for me, it is acceptable.
For really secret data I would
Choose other mechanisms to protect the confidentiality.

It doesn't matter. It's the principle.
Saying you don't care because it doesn't affect you personally is like saying you don't care about the Holocaust because you're not a Jew. When fundamental principles of life and freedom are at stake, everybody must care.

 

[Absrnd]

I fail to grasp the bottom line impact for me as a “normal” individual. I am not a politician nor anyone important subject to be concerned with some degree of “information leaked”.
Even I have come to terms that my emails can be read by yahoo, Google and Microsoft because they are “free”, I am not paying for a email server, so that is the “price of free” and for me, it is acceptable.
For really secret data I would
Choose other mechanisms to protect the confidentiality.

Everybody knows that when you press send it is in the hands of others to check if your mail has any suspicious or spamming material in it.
Also everyone knows that cloud based info also gets scanned.

But how would you like it if somebody is going to live in your house, to rummage through your house and all your phones iPads and Macs for any suspicious material ?
And they will tell you, they will keep their hands in front of their eyes while doing it
That is what CSAM is.

 

[George Dawes]

Suspicious is anything the government deem it so , which is worrying

Misinformation etc …. Face it , if you can go to prison for a tweet … what next ?

 

[VulchR]

Suspicious is anything the government deem it so , which is worrying

Misinformation etc …. Face it , if you can go to prison for a tweet … what next ?

I do not know, but I doubt it is good.

 

[Omega Mac]

I fail to grasp the bottom line impact for me as a “normal” individual. I am not a politician nor anyone important subject to be concerned with some degree of “information leaked”.
Even I have come to terms that my emails can be read by yahoo, Google and Microsoft because they are “free”, I am not paying for a email server, so that is the “price of free” and for me, it is acceptable.
For really secret data I would
Choose other mechanisms to protect the confidentiality.

Guilty until proven innocent - a warrantless search of your device and property by a private corporation in league with another one etc. etc. which then may activate law enforcement.

I'm not totally clued in how the whole line of survlienec works but I understand the pass onto a 3rd party, and in that I'm wondering how are Apple planning to manage this internationally, because that's a lot of legal jurisdictions.

 

[Omega Mac]

Backup made in new version of iOS will not work with older versions of iOS. Piece meal parts of the information together theoretically can work somewhat but you have to invest lots of time to test.

For the same version iOS restore, try to use third party software like iMazing to see if something good will happen. iTunes will more than likely demand you to upgrade to new iOS version since older ones are not signed by Apple anymore.

Thanks I didn't know about iMazing!

Safe enough app to use?

 

[dk001]

Suspicious is anything the government deem it so , which is worrying

Misinformation etc …. Face it , if you can go to prison for a tweet … what next ?

Gotta luv that ol' saying " Hi! I'm from the Government and I am here to HELP you."

 

[Shirasaki]

Thanks I didn't know about iMazing!

Safe enough app to use?

Reputable is what I can say. Safe or not, up to you.

 

[AMSOS]

Where do things stand with the CSAM/backdoor invasion of privacy implementation?
Has that been put on hold permanently?
I am currently on iOS 14.x. Any of you that are holding back from going to iOS 15 to avoid CSAM?
What should be expect in the coming year?
Thanks

 

[Omega Mac]

Reputable is what I can say. Safe or not, up to you.

Ran the trial.

Restore is a paid feature but in running through the steps I could see it also wants to update, so no point in pursuing any further.

Tried a iPhone restore, and now in iTunes you get a restore or update option, select restore and then it is restore + update.

There is no restore option!

Is it the much to ask to be able to restore exactly the backup you have of a device, it's no different than a snapshot of a cloned drive. What I need here is a carbon copy cloner tool for iOS.

 

[Omega Mac]

Gotta luv that ol' saying " Hi! I'm from the Government and I am here to HELP you."

That was Ronald Reagan...

"At a press conference on August 12th, 1986, US President Ronald Reagan said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’”

He was a very witty guy.

 

[now i see it]

It hasn’t been implemented —yet.
There’s no official word whether it will or not.
Supposedly Apple is “rethinking” how to proceed.

iOS 15 compared to iOS 14 sucks anyway so there’s no reason currently to make the jump into hell.

 

[danny842003]

It doesn't matter. It's the principle.
Saying you don't care because it doesn't affect you personally is like saying you don't care about the Holocaust because you're not a Jew. When fundamental principles of life and freedom are at stake, everybody must care.

Dumb take, firstly because the holocaust effected far more than the Jews.
Secondly just because I’m not Jewish or Roma etc doesn’t mean I want to live in a world where these or any groups are being slaughtered. I am fine to live in a world with CSAM it has no negative impact on me or the world as far as I can tell.