Ok. Even the very people (scientists!) who developed the algo state they are concerned. It IS very warranted to be concerned. Your statement IS wrong. And, frankly, pretty arrogant.
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Should I leave apple ecosystem in light of CSAM?
- Thread starter wirtandi
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"The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." - John Philpot Curran, 1790I’m sorry, but at what point in the current process does any government write the code or have access to the creation of iOS? And if they did, since this tech already exists and is on your phone already, again, where was your concern when Apple added it nearly 5 years ago?
The government has NOTHING to do with this. Apple is doing this on their own.
To be fair, your assertion that AI will report my “thought crimes” at the whim of authoritarian regimes because of this started my day off with a laugh.
Btw…Apple only put a camera and microphone on your phone so governments could watch and listen to you.
Whoops!! The chip planted in me when I got my COVID vaccine is telling me it’s time to get up and go to work.
Honestly I hope that you are right and I am being paranoid. Setting aside whether Apple can guarantee that it will always resist efforts to subvert their system from authoritarian governments (say, Russia, the PRC, certain countries in the Middle East, etc.), my point is that government need not have the code to implement something along the lines Apple envisions. Apple has given them a road map of how to perform local surveillance on a mobile device while claiming that it provides for privacy: create perceptual hashes of material known to constitute illegal activity (thought crime); use the new generation of AI-optimised chips in mobile devices to create perceptual hashes of file stored there on the mobile device; compare the resulting hashes with the ones created in the first step; report and delete any matches; and arrest the poor sod who had them on his/her phone (beating said sod with a rubber hose is optional). Perhaps authoritarian governments would have thought of such a scheme without Apple, but now these governments can claim it is OK to do this because Apple from the US, the paragon of liberty and democracy, stated that such a scheme guarantees privacy.
Like I said, IMO it seems neither you nor Apple are thinking a sufficient number of steps ahead. As a colleague once commented to me about risks "it's never f(x), but d(x)" (roughly translated for the readers who loathe mathematics - "it is not the current state of affairs you should pay attention to, but how it is changing").
Which is why my wife and I have yet to have upgraded to iOS 15; why, though I'm about due for a new iPad, the purchase remains on hold, and why the prior plans to acquire Mac desktops remain cancelled.
Unless Apple cancels their plans for on-device CSAM scanning there will be no new Apple anything in our household.
Same here. Apple forced me to upgrade my iPhone to iOS 15 because they sent me a replacement Apple Watch with iOS whatever that wouldn't work on iOS 14. Fine, they got me, at least until I sell these devices. But my iPad is a holdout. No iCloud, no iOS 15.
I had no choice but to use iOS 15, it was on the new iPad mini when I got it a couple of weeks ago.
I have been keeping a close eye on this thread and will keep doing so as this kind of stuff does worry me.
I have been keeping a close eye on this thread and will keep doing so as this kind of stuff does worry me.
I don’t see the issue other the Apple uses your CPU resources to scan other then their own cloud servers. They are under pressure from governments to scan your cloud photos. Anyway, the Apple cloud solution for photos sucks since you can’t choose the folders to sync and you end up syncing many similar photos that you will eventually deleting.
Yeah, they're doing their best to force customers into iOS/iPadOS 15 without coming right out and literally forcing it.
I noticed a week or two back, when I checked for a WatchOS update, it told me "No more updates for you, until you update iOS."
I've said it here before: I used to really like Apple. Not just their products, but the company. Not so much, anymore
Which is, as I noted, why I'll not be upgrading my iPad anytime soon.
This has been debated here on MR ad nauseam. No point in debating it further. I simply will not have on-device CSAM scanning on my mobiles devices, much less in my desktop or laptop devices. Period.
Not even an apple pie? LOL
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I won't go as far as saying I won't buy anything from Apple...but I can say my enthusiasm has dropped. The sale has become a lot harder.
A year ago, when the first M1 Macs shipped, I thought seriously that might be my next computer! And, then, it would have been a primary computer.
Now, as things stand, I'd only consider a Mac as a secondary computer, reserved for specific uses that can't be handled as well (or at all) by my Linux system.
A year ago, when the first M1 Macs shipped, I thought seriously that might be my next computer! And, then, it would have been a primary computer.
Now, as things stand, I'd only consider a Mac as a secondary computer, reserved for specific uses that can't be handled as well (or at all) by my Linux system.
First of all, if anything happens it will gonna be the trackers on nearly every app you have downloaded, these trackers then gather info from the CSAM scan if they could and add it to the digital advertising profile that companies already have on you, One disaster that might happen is Hackers leaking some files that have been put on scan, Just dont use iCloud photos. it's simple if you dont believe what i said above.
I have and I meant it. Wife, forgetting all this, recently said "You're about due for a new iPad." "I am," I replied. "Too bad we're not buying anything from Apple until and unless they abandon their spyware plan." "Oh yeah, that," she replied.
Thing is: Apple makes it nigh impossible to get photos off your iThings other than via the iCloud web interface. One of the things I've always hated about iThings vs. Android things.
Things like that are one of the reasons I won't be entirely unhappy should I eventually be obliged to see Apple in my rear view mirror.
At this point my expectation is Apple is just biding their time and will eventually activate their spyware. I base this expectation on the fact there's nothing they could do to make their scheme palatable. It's just plain an execrable idea. So their "we have decided to take additional time over the coming months to collect input and make improvements" really means "we'll just wait for the furor to die down and to gain sufficient iOS 15 market penetration, then activate it."
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I don't blame you.
When I comment about Apple not being a no sale for me, it comes from a place of realizing that I may at some point be in a position where I have to make a tough choice between lesser of evils to meet a specific need. But my vision would be that the item would be purchased with the idea of being used for limited, specific uses. It would not be a sole, primary device. It would likely be a purchase made reluctantly. And it might well be something bought used, with the idea that there won't be direct profit for the computer or device maker off the sale.
The mention of the iPad reminds me of one struggle I've had. A tablet is very attractive as a secondary device. But all the choices I'm aware of have issues that concern me. Right now, I just am doing without. But what happens if I need either a Google Android tablet or an iPad a year from now? At that point, it would likely end up being: "Is a Samsung Android tablet or iPad the lesser evil for me?"
A reasonable hypothesis--and this is my guess what will likely happen, too.
And also possibly time activation for a time when they aren't actively pushing some new product. Say, for the iOS an activation date this spring, with the idea that hopefully everyone will "have forgotten" by the time the next iPhone ships.
At some level I care at some level I don't. I'm not going android and that means Elon better get his Teslaphone into production or a roll your own linux phone. Maybe MS will take another shot at a windows 10 phone. I have to pick the lesser of all evils from my perspective. CSAM doesn't make the top of the list.
CSAM is just Apple's PhotoDNA in their own ways, Going to Google and Microsoft will result in the same, but they have their own goods over Apple.
I wouldn't buy a glass of water from Elon if I were in the middle of a desert at 50 °C. I'd rather die of dehydration.
As for a Windows phone... that would hardly be a better option. Windows 10 is known for phoning home and reporting everything you do to Microsoft. Microsoft is spying on you even more shamelessly than its competition.
This is not the same. Google and Microsoft do not scan on the device so far, but only in the cloud. At least that's my latest understanding.
And you don't have to use the cloud. You don't use the cloud anyway if privacy is important to you.
There really aren’t any good options is the point as I see it should I decide to get another cell phone.
My thinking, too.
My suspicion is the only reason they "decided to take additional time over the coming months" was they were on the verge of launching iOS 15, with new products to follow shortly thereafter, and the market was responding decidedly badly to their announced spyware. They know the buying public has the attention span of a gnat--particularly when presented with something new and shiny.
I, OTOH, have the memory of an elephant
E.g.: Once-upon-a-time a certain electric razor manufacturer used Consumer's Reports results in their advertising, in contravention of CU's rules. When CU complained, they told them to go jump in a lake. That company and all its products went on my Do Not Buy list and stayed there for... at least three decades?
Sad, but true.
And, of course, they can choose timing carefully. As I said before, they might aim for a time when they don't have a new product to flog.
And they might also aim for a moment when the news is saturated with other stories. Anything Apple does is important for tech news--but if they can avoid coverage in regular news, a lot of buyers might not ever know what's going on. And this year--between COVID and the election--the news will probably have a lot of moments when a tech story might, at most, run as small story that no one sees.
I have a good memory, too. And I've had plenty of "I won't buy" or "I won't use in my own home" type pronouncements. But unfortunately, it's easier to make this sort of pronouncement stick with some products than other products. A razor brand, for example, is easily boycotted for life--there are a ton of other choices, and they all do the same basic job. Some might do it better in some ways, of course, but if Company A annoys one enough, the slightly less close shave of Company B can be lived with.I, OTOH, have the memory of an elephant
The problem with tech is the way there are times when it's not as easy. For example, someone has a need that pretty much requires certain software that runs on a certain platform. Or the choices are all horribly flawed. (I'd argue that's the case with tablets. I'd like a tablet--but all the current choices have issues that concern me. So if I were buying tomorrow, it would literally be a question of: what is the least of the evils given my current needs/views/circcumstances that I can buy today? And this answer might change regularly, as ones needs/ones circumstances/general evilness of the tech makers changes.)
One possible POI, there are a lot of security, privacy, and “hacker” romps looking for this to go live.
I highly suspect if it does, we will hear about it fairly quickly.
I highly suspect if it does, we will hear about it fairly quickly.
Meanwhile, more iOS/iPadOS/WatchOS/etc. updates to fix critical zero-day vulnerabilities. No updates to 14.x. No detailed information as to whether the vulnerabilities affect only 15.x, or releases prior, as well.
Still no announcement from Apple about what they plan to do wrt their on-hold spyware.
I trust and like Apple less and less with nearly every passing day.
Still no announcement from Apple about what they plan to do wrt their on-hold spyware.
I trust and like Apple less and less with nearly every passing day.