All iPads Should the iPad become a Mac Replacement?

[eltoslightfoot]

I'm a retired h/w & s/w engineer and did a lot of work on flight systems, command & control systems, etc. and could imagine a lot of potential applications for these (e.g., look at what the F-35 Helmet Mounted Display does for a pilot). Plus, usage in training systems, interior design, ... A lot of AR potential there.

Except it can’t work with other operating systems?

 

[Ludatyk]

Nah. Comfort is #1.

Most folks won't be wearing these for extended periods unless they're comfortable.

Well, of course… comfort is #1. But I was making a point having a headset to where a user can see their surrounding makes a huge difference whereas they can interact with the outside world. I completely understand if they are not comfortable then the point I was making is irrelevant.

This thread starts with a poll on what we want the iPad to be, yet those who argue that the iPad form factor with its current hardware is capable of more get shot down.

I don’t argue that the iPad is not capable of running macOS… it has an M1 chip, of course it can run macOS. What I argue against for those who favor running macOS on an iPad… what purpose does Mac hardware serve?

 

[sparksd]

Except it can’t work with other operating systems?

If I were incorporating these into a C4I system that already has a lot of servers, etc., I'd put in a Mac - or Macs - as interface boxes interfacing with the rest of the system. A hybrid environment is readily doable.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

If I were incorporating these into a C4I system that already has a lot of servers, etc., I'd put in a Mac - or Macs - as interface boxes interfacing with the rest of the system. A hybrid environment is readily doable.

Only in a remote session on a 4k simulated screen in the Mac.

 

[prospervic]

Apple's single intention is to make money. What you perceive as their "intention" with a specific platform was a business decision to drive sales. That's the bottom line. This thread starts with a poll on what we want the iPad to be, yet those who argue that the iPad form factor with its current hardware is capable of more get shot down. You seem to be doing the very thing you are accusing me of.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Not shooting you down. Not sure who I was originally responding to, but there’s a difference between stating the iPad “should replace the Mac” and trashing the iPad as worthless garbage.

Besides, for many people the iPad has already replaced the Mac, at least in the sense that they choose to buy iPad instead of MacBook.

Having said that, I think the new 15-inch MacBook Air could make it tough for iPad Pro. While it’s never been either/or for me, I can totally see those on the fence deciding that a slim, light (3.3lbs) complete computer with a 15” screen for $1299 is a much better buy than a nearly-as-weighty (3.0lbs), smaller yet chunky tablet + keyboard combo that will cost you $1550 to get the same amount of storage (256gb).

 

[Ludatyk]

Having said that, I think the new 15-inch MacBook Air could make it tough for iPad Pro. While it’s never been either/or for me, I can totally see those on the fence deciding that a slim, light (3.3lbs) complete computer with a 15” screen for $1299 is a much better buy than a nearly-as-weighty (3.0lbs), smaller yet chunky tablet + keyboard combo that will cost you $1550 to get the same amount of storage (256gb).

Tbf, you can say the same thing about the M2 13 inch MBA… I don’t think the new 15 inch MBA moves the needle as much as the smaller 13 inch MBA.

I think the new 15 inch MBA is for those who don’t care for the 16 inch MBP (too expensive) and desires a bigger screen than the 13 inch MBA, deciding to buy the iPad Pro isn’t on their radar (imo).

 

[eltoslightfoot]

This thread is pretty much dead at this point, isn’t it? It’s clear that no matter how badly we want it, the iPad will never replace a PC/mac truly.

 

[Ludatyk]

This thread is pretty much dead at this point, isn’t it? It’s clear that no matter how badly we want it, the iPad will never replace a PC/mac truly.

I think you generalizing it… it’s always been a case-by-case scenario. Some people are able to replace their PC/Mac with an iPad and some are not. And that’s okay.

 

[sparksd]

I think you generalizing it… it’s always been a case-by-case scenario. Some people are able to replace their PC/Mac with an iPad and some are not. And that’s okay.

This, absolutely. There is no universal answer, just individual experiences.

 

[bcortens]

I still don't understand. Apple created the M series specifically for the Mac. They put in all sorts of extra silicon to suit the Macs they're in. They even said the strength of Apple silicon is that they can make the products they actually want to make. What specifically is missing in the current Macs that is a result of Apple silicon starting out in phones and tablets?

For Apple to have put any more silicon in the current Macs would have created more heat, lowered battery life, and more fan noise. So I'm not sure what you think could have gone in them but didn't because of Apple silicon's origins. Not sure how Apple silicon's edge diminishes in desktops when Apple hasn't put it in a proper desktop yet.

For chips like Apple silicon, power efficiency is performance. If they wanted, they could ramp up the power usage to Intel/AMD/NVIDIA levels and achieve equivalent or higher performance, but that would necessitate bigger beefier louder devices. Not seeing how that trickles down to the iPad.

Sort of....

The M1 is basically what would have been an A14X with a few extra bits such as thunderbolt connectivity, and modifications to the GPU cores to support the required Mac specific GPU formats (I think they moved to 32bit ALUs but I might be misremembering that). Around the time of the A9X people started to notice that Apple was catching up to Intel on single core performance (the 12" MacBook was comparable in CPU perf to the iPad Pro of that generation IIRC) and people began to speculate that Apple might be gearing up to replace Intel. It took a lot longer than that of course (A14 generation) but it did eventually happen.

 

[bcortens]

Having said that, I think the new 15-inch MacBook Air could make it tough for iPad Pro. While it’s never been either/or for me, I can totally see those on the fence deciding that a slim, light (3.3lbs) complete computer with a 15” screen for $1299 is a much better buy than a nearly-as-weighty (3.0lbs), smaller yet chunky tablet + keyboard combo that will cost you $1550 to get the same amount of storage (256gb).

Personally I would rather have a 15" iPad Pro than the MBA. Unfortunately my development work cannot be run on iPad OS but for everything else iPad is my preferred platform.

 

[Boil]

This thread is pretty much dead at this point, isn’t it? It’s clear that no matter how badly we want it, the iPad will never replace a PC/mac truly.

"The GUI will never replace the CLI truly..."

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I think you generalizing it… it’s always been a case-by-case scenario. Some people are able to replace their PC/Mac with an iPad and some are not. And that’s okay.

That’s totally fair and I agree. My point was more for those of us that have been longing for a true finder and PC experience on our beefy M1/2 iPad Pros need to come to the realization that it is not going to happen.

We need to either just get on with another platform (such as Surface) or suck it up and try to make stage manager and other iPad workarounds y’all are using work for us.

To that end, I am trying out the beta and stage manager and see if the improvements are enough.

I found this post enlightening enough to make the attempt: https://www.macstories.net/stories/...ger-is-finally-moving-in-the-right-direction/

 

[sparksd]

That’s totally fair and I agree. My point was more for those of us that have been longing for a true finder and PC experience on our beefy M1/2 iPad Pros need to come to the realization that it is not going to happen.

We need to either just get on with another platform (such as Surface) or suck it up and try to make stage manager and other iPad workarounds y’all are using work for us.

To that end, I am trying out the beta and stage manager and see if the improvements are enough.

I found this post enlightening enough to make the attempt: https://www.macstories.net/stories/...ger-is-finally-moving-in-the-right-direction/

I have a 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 that I really like as a laptop but find it's nowhere near as good a tablet as my M1 12.9. So, I keep and use both, viewing them as complements, not replacements. But from an overall functionality perspective, I could live without the iPad, but not the SP7.

 

[bcortens]

That’s totally fair and I agree. My point was more for those of us that have been longing for a true finder and PC experience on our beefy M1/2 iPad Pros need to come to the realization that it is not going to happen.

We need to either just get on with another platform (such as Surface) or suck it up and try to make stage manager and other iPad workarounds y’all are using work for us.

To that end, I am trying out the beta and stage manager and see if the improvements are enough.

I found this post enlightening enough to make the attempt: https://www.macstories.net/stories/...ger-is-finally-moving-in-the-right-direction/

I find stage manager too limiting due to the inability to manage windows from the multitasking expose view - I want to be able to move between stages and move windows between stages more efficiently (the same way Split View lets me manage windows which is very efficient these days).

I wish I could fully move to iPad but without a proper development story (python, java, c++ are a must) I can’t fully commit to it.

I think the iPad doesn’t need macOS, a better developer story can obviously exist since the swift playgrounds app can build full (if simple) apps now, and the files app needs a rewrite to be more stable, reliable, and to allow me to download all files and keep all files downloaded to my iPad from iCloud Drive

 

[Ludatyk]

To that end, I am trying out the beta and stage manager and see if the improvements are enough.

I found this post enlightening enough to make the attempt: https://www.macstories.net/stories/...ger-is-finally-moving-in-the-right-direction/

Well, the beta is alright. Was hoping Apple address the elephant in the room… simultaneously audio stream of apps, the more we use Stage Manager the more it becomes apparent its needed.

And I never really had a major issue with the freedom of windowing as Federico has mentioned. I do like the idea of having 4 apps placed in a grid instead of in an awkwardly long rectangular window (part of the reason I’ve abandon SlideOver now).

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I don’t know. I played with the new Stage Manager for a few minutes, and it still sucks. Too much wasted space—not enough freedom on where to place apps. Can’t even have total freedom on what size to make apps. And then the settings app has different sizes available than the firefox app. Just a mess. Trips my OCD. Ugg.

 

[Ludatyk]

I don’t know. I played with the new Stage Manager for a few minutes, and it still sucks. Too much wasted space—not enough freedom on where to place apps. Can’t even have total freedom on what size to make apps. And then the settings app has different sizes available than the firefox app. Just a mess. Trips my OCD. Ugg.

Lol, too much wasted space? You are aware you can turn off dock and the recent windows area. And not enough freedom to place apps? I’m confused.. did you look at the MacStories article?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Lol, too much wasted space? You are aware you can turn off dock and the recent windows area. And not enough freedom to place apps? I’m confused.. did you look at the MacStories article?

I didn’t just look at it, I did the same things. Still not good enough. Look at PowerToys or BetterSnapTool. This is nothing like that. Why does each individual app have different sizing constraints? Why do the apps sometimes overlap and not other times? Why don’t I have control over what is going on with the way the apps stack?

It was worse before, but that doesn’t make it good now.

Edited to add: of course, I am not the best fan of Stage Manager to begin with. I can admit that. It seems like an overly cumbersome method with a tried-and-true alternative to just let us freely move and stick apps—similar to every desktop OS since the dawn of time.

Again, if this works for you, then fan-freaking-tastic! I am truly happy for you. It doesn’t for me. I want a desktop-like environment for my multitasking experience, and with an $1000 device (including the magic keyboard), I shouldn’t have to.

 

[Ludatyk]

I didn’t just look at it, I did the same things. Still not good enough. Look at PowerToys or BetterSnapTool. This is nothing like that. Why does each individual app have different sizing constraints? Why do the apps sometimes overlap and not other times? Why don’t I have control over what is going on with the way the apps stack?

It was worse before, but that doesn’t make it good now.

If you have to reference tools from macOS… you better off staying on macOS.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

If you have to reference tools from macOS… you better off staying on macOS.

So what do you see as the point of stage manager? It isn’t to emulate a desktop environment?


Edited to add: But, yes, that is what I am trying to say the last few posts. Those of us who keep thinking that Apple is going to make it right, probably just need to move on to a Surface Pro or Wacom tablet or something.

Or accept the limitations—as you and some of the others have done.

 

[Ludatyk]

So what do you see as the point of stage manager? It isn’t to emulate a desktop environment?

And it does. I’m able to have multiple apps actively shown on screen and move them around freely.

I think you are expecting it to be like macOS/Windows, but it’s different from that… it’s more centered around what Apple thinks the iPad should be in a desktop environment. There’s groups of windows on the right side where a user can manage them and decide what they want to display on stage.

They can place up to 4 windows on stage… decide to take one out and replace it with another.

Or accept the limitations—as you and some of the others have done.

Don’t think that’s necessary. It’s as if you throwing shade at those who don’t see a problem with using Stage Manager because it doesn’t fit how you think it should be.

 

[LeeW]

All these posts and threads later and the answer is still the same thing. The iPad can replace a laptop for many, perhaps the majority but not everyone, nothing is for everyone.

I just got the 12.9, I can use it to access a terminal to manage remote servers and I can code on it along with all the usual tasks of browsing, email, notes, and everything else. Some trade-offs of course vs macOS but perfectly usable on the move.

For everyone that has basic needs, it definitely can be a laptop/desktop replacement. For others, it can be with some trade-offs and for others, find something else.

 

[bcortens]

If you have to reference tools from macOS… you better off staying on macOS.

None sense, stage manager has problems that I have outlined extensively elsewhere, you have always given me workarounds that fail to actually address the problem because what I want is a simple, visual, easy to use, way of moving windows between spaces/stages.

I don’t want macOS, but I maintain that Stage Manager is really only good if you have one primary stage that you use and don’t keep a large number of windows open that you have to manage.

We don’t necessarily want macOS, you keep trying to make out like wanting to be able to see the windows in an organized way is somehow the macOS way but the iPad has a great way to see a high level view of your windows. It’s just limited to split-view rather than being present in stage manager. Stage managers app-expose/multitasking expose screen is pretty much a wasted space right now. Asking them to fix this wasted space doesn’t mean we want macOS.

So what do you see as the point of stage manager? It isn’t to emulate a desktop environment?


Edited to add: But, yes, that is what I am trying to say the last few posts. Those of us who keep thinking that Apple is going to make it right, probably just need to move on to a Surface Pro or Wacom tablet or something.

Or accept the limitations—as you and some of the others have done.

I think the point is resizable windows and while it is pretty good at that it really isn’t great at intuitive window management.

Edited for emphasis.

Edit2

I feel that the limitations of Stage Manager (no coherent strategy for managing multiple stages) means that it is a less powerful way of managing windows than Split View, where I can easily manage multiple groups of windows, see those window groups and move between them.

 

[Ludatyk]

None sense, stage manager has problems that I have outlined extensively elsewhere, you have always given me workarounds that fail to actually address the problem because what I want is a simple, visual, easy to use, way of moving windows between spaces/stages.

How is that nonsense? They were referencing a tool that’s used on macOS for resizing windows… I advise them they are better off using macOS.

I don’t want macOS, but I maintain that Stage Manager is really only good if you have one primary stage that you use and don’t keep a large number of windows open that you have to manage.

Huh? There’s gestures (4 finger swipe) to easily go between stages.

We don’t necessarily want macOS, you keep trying to make out like wanting to be able to see the windows in an organized way is somehow the macOS way but the iPad has a great way to see a high level view of your windows. It’s just limited to split-view rather than being present in stage manager. Stage managers app-expose/multitasking expose screen is pretty much a wasted space right now. Asking them to fix this wasted space doesn’t mean we want macOS.

We‘ve discussed this before… you are accustomed to using App Exposé to manage windows as if you are using SplitView/SlideOver. But Stage Manager encourages you to learn to use the recent windows area… yet, you refuse to do so.