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SMC Issue on MBP 13 - Hardware Troubleshooting Guide

K

kreliz

macrumors newbie
Jun 6, 2014
13
0
I keep seeing these cap's on the wire diagrams marked with "CERM" as the temperature

I keep seeing these cap's on the wire diagrams marked with "CERM" as the temperature coefficient. But i can't find any on Digikey like it. Is it safe to grab a X7R or else in its place?
 
T

tiagobaracho

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2014
105
0
Macbook pro a1278

Hi Guys. I have been reading a lot this forum.. I LOVE IT.... I have 15 years of electronics background.. but usually on more simple stuff, and as a hobby... I began around 3 years ago to go deeper on SMD boards, but i still have a low knowledge about it.. .The more i fix/try to fix the better i understand....
Anyway...
I have a macbook pro MacBook Pro (13-inch, Early 2011) a1278, i5 processor here that had water damage... Its was not too much .. only on 3 places I could see oxidation... two place was minor and i fluxed and resolder and it is beautiful... the other place i had to change a 6 leg IC that i had on another board and checker the traces..The problem it was presenting was that if we connect the magasafe the light is VERY VERY dim green... almost imperceptible... But the magasafe is being activated, I have 14.5 volts on the board. I also have 3.448 V on the magasafe connector data pin... I am not sure why its working but the led is very very dim green....
Here some information : All fuses are ok.... it does not boot up, it doesn't do anything when pressing the power bottom , jumping also does not boot.. Jumper pin has 3.470 v... the bios does not have power ! who regulates the power for the BIOS ?
I can find 12.27 v on the green fuse close to the LCD connector... So, there is a lot working.... But u guess now its not turning on because the bios has no power...
Could you guys help me out ?

I have another of the same here that was had to discover but i guess i did...
I have a thermal camera and i saw the broadcom BCM57765B0KMLG IC at 150 ºc when on... i removed the IC and everything seems fine... just the backlight is not turning on.... I will replace the backlight IC.... Seem that all power is getting to the blacklight IC and the inductor is good too... so i guess when i replace the IC it should light UP....if it does ok, Then i have to replace this broadcom IC.. Already ordered... I guess this iC shorted.... I looked around and no short on capacitors connected to it.... so it should be it...

Here goes the pictures of the recovery of the ugly oxidation.... But this is done and tested ok.. The fuse is OK, although looking ugly... I will replace if i be able to fix this board. ( out of curiotisy, I saw on few apple board this 3 legs IC that two legs goes to each side of the fuse, its something like a detector of blown fuse ?
Greatly appreciated.
 

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tiagobaracho

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2014
105
0
iHack13 said:
hey tiago,

here is the schematic file for your board.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/19025272/
also its called MagSafe adapter :D (comes from magnet)
Click to expand...

Thanks you very much.... sorry about that :p lol... i felt something wrong about writing that way. ..lol...
I have here 8 macbooks that i bought with problems... 4 is reballing/ gpu replacement, i am waiting for the stencil to arrive....
Two i fixed ! It was a open resistor due to a shorted cap ! In this case i used my power supply to heat the shorted element and used the IR camera to detect ! there was when i discovered the shorted cap !
The other one was a 2009 mac air beeping .... reflow of the RAM memory chip solved the problem.. It was oxidation due to the airflow..
But now i have this two from the last post to fix... One i believe will be fixed when replacing the broadcom chip and the backlight chip.... and the other one i need help!!
 
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tiagobaracho

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2014
105
0
iHack13 said:
See previous page. Long story
Click to expand...

I would take out the board, connect the battery, the lcd cable and connect a USB flash drive to boot..... .. connect also a USB mouse and check if those conditions if it still gives you the same problem...This way we are eliminating many things out of equation.....If the problem still happens, i can predict this will be a hard one... Sometimes BGA problems are wierd and make computer to lock up, reset...... maybe then it fell down something happened to the BGA balls.... It would be hard to say ....
 
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tiagobaracho

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2014
105
0
I am now trying the schematics of my board .. 820-2936-b .. Where do i find this K numer ? k90, k84.... I found many close schematics but they are different and doent help very much...
 
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ZZZAC

ZZZAC

macrumors regular
Dec 29, 2013
101
2
ALB repairs uk
strange 820-2936

just got an 820-2936 board in that apears good condition and has had a little spill damage but nothing serious.
It works and i have run asd. the problem is its VERY VERY SLOW and glitchy unless its in smc bypass.
ASD didnt give me any kind of sensor errors
could anyone give me any advice about what to look at next? its slow on both the magsafe and battery adapter, i could replace the smc but i want to be sure of what the cause is before i sodomize it with my soldering equipment :)


Edit: was just tidying my workshop in preparation to reballing the smc on this.
And i decided to plug in a trackpad.
System now works fine.
FACEPALM! well atleast i didnt get as far as reballing it to realise lol
 
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iHack13

iHack13

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2009
152
709
city of octoberfest
tiagobaracho said:
I am now trying the schematics of my board .. 820-2936-b .. Where do i find this K numer ? k90, k84.... I found many close schematics but they are different and doent help very much...
Click to expand...

K90 is the apple device internal codename and 820-2936-b is the corresponding logic board number in this case.

and now to my problem:

I ran ASD OS version now and everything worked fine except 3 of 84 tests.
I ran only the three failed tests again to sort the successful ones out and here they are:


Local machine info: Mac OS X version = 10.8.2(12C3104) IP Address:127.0.0.1 ASD version:3S155
==========================================================
==========================================================
ASD Log activity from [07/20/14 01:50:03] to [07/20/14 01:52:35]
==========================================================
[07/20/14 01:51:55] * TESTING STARTED *
[07/20/14 01:51:55] Temperature (Ts0P) -- Palm Rest (test #1) - Sensor Reads Within Operating Range
- Check to ensure that sensor reads within operating range.
[01:51:56] ERROR -- 1 [Unable to read sensor] -- TEST FAILED
[07/20/14 01:51:56] Temperature (Ts0P) -- Palm Rest (test #11) - Extended Sensor Flat Line Test
- Checks that the Sensor changes value i.e. not stuck, with longer time allowance for change (5 mins).
[01:51:56] ERROR - -13005 [The SMC can not read this sensor] -- TEST FAILED
[07/20/14 01:51:56] Thermal Interface - Processor:processor0: TIM Test 75 percent GB (test #4) - TIM Test 75 percent GB
- Check that CPU heatsink is properly attached, using product spec theta dh + 75 percent guardband.
[01:52:35] ERROR -- 255 [Unknown result-code 0xff] -- TEST FAILED
[07/20/14 01:52:35] * TESTING FAILED [Elapsed time = 00:00:40] *
 
ZZZAC

ZZZAC

macrumors regular
Dec 29, 2013
101
2
ALB repairs uk
iHack13 said:
K90 is the apple device internal codename and 820-2936-b is the corresponding logic board number in this case.

and now to my problem:

I ran ASD OS version now and everything worked fine except 3 of 84 tests.
I ran only the three failed tests again to sort the successful ones out and here they are:


Local machine info: Mac OS X version = 10.8.2(12C3104) IP Address:127.0.0.1 ASD version:3S155
==========================================================
==========================================================
ASD Log activity from [07/20/14 01:50:03] to [07/20/14 01:52:35]
==========================================================
[07/20/14 01:51:55] * TESTING STARTED *
[07/20/14 01:51:55] Temperature (Ts0P) -- Palm Rest (test #1) - Sensor Reads Within Operating Range
- Check to ensure that sensor reads within operating range.
[01:51:56] ERROR -- 1 [Unable to read sensor] -- TEST FAILED
[07/20/14 01:51:56] Temperature (Ts0P) -- Palm Rest (test #11) - Extended Sensor Flat Line Test
- Checks that the Sensor changes value i.e. not stuck, with longer time allowance for change (5 mins).
[01:51:56] ERROR - -13005 [The SMC can not read this sensor] -- TEST FAILED
[07/20/14 01:51:56] Thermal Interface - Processor:processor0: TIM Test 75 percent GB (test #4) - TIM Test 75 percent GB
- Check that CPU heatsink is properly attached, using product spec theta dh + 75 percent guardband.
[01:52:35] ERROR -- 255 [Unknown result-code 0xff] -- TEST FAILED
[07/20/14 01:52:35] * TESTING FAILED [Elapsed time = 00:00:40] *
Click to expand...


do you have fresh thermal paste and a properly mounted heatsink?
Ts0p is track pad temperature sensor so id try another track pad and cable, also examine the connector.
 
iHack13

iHack13

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2009
152
709
city of octoberfest
Thermalpaste is probably old. Heatsink should be fine but I can have a look into it.
Problem is that the Macbook runs on high fans and temperature is pretty low actually since the air thats coming out is rather cold.

Connector seems to be fine. I dont know what to do actually.

Update:
See attachment for latest pics
 

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ZZZAC

ZZZAC

macrumors regular
Dec 29, 2013
101
2
ALB repairs uk
iHack13 said:
Thermalpaste is probably old. Heatsink should be fine but I can have a look into it.
Problem is that the Macbook runs on high fans and temperature is pretty low actually since the air thats coming out is rather cold.

Connector seems to be fine. I dont know what to do actually.

Update:
See attachment for latest pics
Click to expand...

I have just theorised.
Your Ts0p problem, it is a tempriture sensor internal to your trackpad.
if you get this Ts0p error it means your system fans will run on max as its not recognizing a track pad. This could consequently throw the thermal paste error as a false positive due to the fans speed but thats just a theory
does the trackpad function?
have you tried another trackpad, trackpad cable and inspected the connector?
 
iHack13

iHack13

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2009
152
709
city of octoberfest
ZZZAC said:
I have just theorised.
Your Ts0p problem, it is a tempriture sensor internal to your trackpad.
if you get this Ts0p error it means your system fans will run on max as its not recognizing a track pad. This could consequently throw the thermal paste error as a false positive due to the fans speed but thats just a theory
does the trackpad function?
have you tried another trackpad, trackpad cable and inspected the connector?
Click to expand...
I'm starting to doubt myself. :confused:
I swapped the trackpads with the one from my friend (mid 2009).

My macbook showed same behaviour however my trackpad worked flawlessly in his macbook.
But I'm starting to think again that it might be the trackpad which somehow doesnt make sense

Update: some voltages that I measured for mousepad who is giving me a hand in native language via pm
 

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T

tiagobaracho

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2014
105
0
guys.. on the schematics.. Is there any way to know for sure if some voltage being described is when the macbook is on or off ? sure i use logic to dertemine.. but sometimes i get stuff not knowing if i should have some voltage or i would be if turned on....
 
M

mousepad

macrumors newbie
Feb 5, 2012
8
1
iHack13 said:
I'm starting to doubt myself. :confused:
I swapped the trackpads with the one from my friend (mid 2009).

My macbook showed same behaviour however my trackpad worked flawlessly in his macbook.
But I'm starting to think again that it might be the trackpad which somehow doesnt make sense

Update: some voltages that I measured for mousepad who is giving me a hand in native language via pm
Click to expand...

All 6 measuring points: 3,3V
correction: R5270 and R5271 measured 1k Ω
 
iHack13

iHack13

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2009
152
709
city of octoberfest
mousepad said:
All 6 measuring points: 3,3V
correction: R5270 and R5271 measured 1k Ω
Click to expand...

Have you desoldered the resistances or how do you get the 1k ohm?

But let me tell you something interesting.
The SMBUS_SMC_2_S3_SCL and SMBUS_SMC_2_S3_SDA seem to be the culprit! And I think that's where you were pointing towards too.
I think I have a bad SMC chip or the two soldering points of the BGA are faulty. But there is 4.3V right? A cold soldering point would implicate no current at all ?

How do I know that it's the two lines mentioned above? Well, all the PP3V3_S3 probes on the bottom side of the board show 3.3V. Everything correct on that end of the line.

So it would make no sense at all if the camera + ambient light sensor (=ALS line) would work and the Sudden motion sensor (=Digital SMS).
Well check this out:
I opened up photobooth and camera (which I never use) didnt work!
System Profiler also says no camera connected!
Alright, I booted up ASD OS and ran an Ambient Light Sensor (ALS) test.
It told me to cover the ALS which I strongly believe is next to the camera. Used my big thumb and covered it. And the ALS test actually failed!

Previously I thought the ALS is ok, since I thought it passed the particular test in the standalone tests. However I now realized that in the standalone test it checks the Ambient AIR Sensor. Interesting to know that there is actually a sensor which recognizes your farts but the point is I thought by mistake that I previously checked the ALS sensor, which it seems I didn't.

The ALS sensor check is only offered in the interactive testing, and it failed.
Although at some point I believe it mentioned to cover "both" sensors. Where is the other one, if there is one?
I tried to cover the microphone hole too but it failed. So if anyone knows if there is another one please tell me so I can repeat the test.

Alright. So technically I'd guess that the Sudden Motion Sensor which is also on the line should be defective. However I am not sure how to check this.
The test didnt offer any checks. So I went to terminal and checked the SMS with sudo pmset -g and the sms was set to 1.
Then I tried to disable it with sudo pmset -a sms 0 and it seemed to work.
And then reenabled it with sudo pmset -a sms 1. And it was 1 again.
Technically the SMS works. I don't know if that makes sense.

UPDATE: Problem solved / cause of defect found.

Will keep you updated.
 

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C

chigwelldave

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2013
96
0
Adelaide, Australia
820-2915

Hi All,

Hoping to have another look at my faulty 820-2915 (early 2011 15") but still can't find the board view for it. Anyone happy to post it or a link to it please?

Regards,

Chigwelldave.
 
iHack13

iHack13

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2009
152
709
city of octoberfest
chigwelldave said:
Hi All,

Hoping to have another look at my faulty 820-2915 (early 2011 15") but still can't find the board view for it. Anyone happy to post it or a link to it please?

Regards,

Chigwelldave.
Click to expand...

Well there doesn't seem to be anyone who has it here.
But in case you are clueless you can do the following.

Download other brd files and search the exact file names in google.
You will eventually find chinese forums (which are high likely sources for these files)
I tried to register on one of these forums but failed at the security question, because they are aware of stealing brds :)
Thats why they are also banning people after a few days. At least that was mentioned somewhere here, but luckily he got the brd before.

This will keep you busy at least and hopefully you'll find your brd file :)
 
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