SMC Issue on MBP 13 - Hardware Troubleshooting Guide

[tiagobaracho]

Update on my macbook pro 17 i7..
It just passed the ASD test ! ...
I believe that the system should be trying to detect the battery and if I fix this issue of the battery not being detect, it might solve the low speed....
kernel_task is using 250% of the cpu.. althoug its not getting hot.. i belive it might be in some kind of loop because of this battery issue....

The SMC is the device that really talks to the battery via SMBUS_SMC_BSA_SCL and SMBUS_SMC_BSA_SDA, right ?
I checked eerything related to both SDA and SCL... and everything checks out....
I already went so far... Not sure why not detecting the battery.,..
I just have the SMC to change.... But since its a little bit delicate, I am trying to see all other options..

 

[tiagobaracho]

hi guys...more one update..
I am sharing all of this because who is interested can learn to... I, myselft, read a lot this thread and learned a lot from other's problems..

Here it go...
I found that somehow the macbook could work on the battery on one situations... if magsafe is connected and i start up the computer and then i remove the mag safe, it does boot from the battery... but when it goes to load the OS, it stays black... so if i plug back the magsafe, now it shows the battery icon ( that was not showing before if i boot with magsafe plugged) but it says not charging, running from charger....
But the most important ! it runs fast ! its not slow anymore... so, as i was thinking.. this problem of not recognizing the battery was making all the system goes slow... This is very important for future problems like this !
So all i have to do now is make it work with the battery and the slow problem will be fixed!
I am almost sure its the SMC... i had to change already two ICs on this board, the 3.42 IC and the ISL6259HRTZ.. So probably something went wrong with the AC adapter and made those two IC go bad... so, since the ISL6259HRTZ is connected directly to the SMC... maybe it also broke the SCL and SDA part of the SMC... I HOPE !
Now i will just make sure that TPS51980 is working as it should, because i have a little doubt is it was supposed to be generations 3.3 and 5v only connected from the battery... and this is not happening... But on mag safe it does have 3.3 and 5.... so.. i believe its ok but i will compare with another macbook i have here..
If everything confirms, tomorrow i will be changing the SMC and see if it will work and detect the battery and charge it !

 

[grize]

[url=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/540/TrcH4k.jpg]Image[/URL]
What we have here is a logic operator. Do you get PM_SLP_SUS_L? it comes from the chipset and your entire circuit is reliant on this signal.
Before you decide this is irrelevant to you it’s worth reading because you’ll learn from it.
Its going to be hard to explain how this works but it’s a simple enough concept. U7940 has an AND operator and an OR operator. Google these.
Using your high capacity noggin you should be able to figure out exactly how this works.
So these are steps from start to finish using a simple logic operator program

Hit button one (smc batlow L). Its not going to turn on any output because it’s feeding an AND operator that requires two signals to open.
[url=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/674/aFjjfb.jpg]Image[/URL]
Similar occurs when there is an input of (pm slp sus L). The OR operator becomes active then feeds the AND operator. The AND operator won’t open because its only got one input
[url=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/674/odcorG.jpg]Image[/URL]
If both signals are present we get an output.
[url=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/540/VvKBYs.jpg]Image[/URL]
Now…. Here’s where it becomes more complex, a standard AND operator would do this as well…
Why is the second operator here? Well, if you then turn of the PM SLP SUS L signal the output will remain active. This is because the AND gate is feeding the OR operator which is then feeding the AND operator.
[url=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/674/DiJq9R.jpg]Image[/URL]
This is relevant to your problem despite you may think im looking in the wrong direction
However what’s the point of having a sensor for (pp3v3_sus) when there isn’t an output of (pm_sus_en)? And if we are missing that signal then we have no SUS voltages atall

[url=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/538/r9ngli.jpg]Image[/URL]

See u7930 also has a PGOOD, a sense pin for pp3v3_sus, if any of this is missing itll cause PM RSMRST L to react differently, and I think here is where your problem maybe, the entire circuit relies on the chipset.
I will film myself eating a hat if it’s not a fault with the chipset!
Take it or leave it but ive just gone out of my way for about 30 minutes to figure out exactly where you’re at so I really do hope this helps. And not only the OP but other posters learn from it.

Hey ZZZAC,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to give such a detailed reply.

Unfortunately, It seems that the circuit in your example operates quite differently to the board I am working on. For example the PM_RSMRST_L and PM_BATLOW_L signals are issued directly by the SMC on my board. Also, I don't have the PM_SLP_SUS_L anywhere on the schematic. There is no similar AND/OR device on this board.

Perhaps because the one i am working on is an older 2009 15" K19 model, it may explain why it functions a little differently?

I have looked over the board again and noticed something unusual when measuring the voltage at the RTC crystal with my multimeter. If I measure the input to the crystal (from the MCP to ground) it is around 1V. However if i put my finger on the metal positive probe of the multimeter it jumps up to 1.3V.

There is nothing on the output of the RTC crystal on either the multimeter or my oscilloscope. I checked on a spare board that has the same chipset and crystal and I get a DC voltage on the input of 1.5V and a nice sign wave on the output.

Im not sure where to go next. All of the standby S5 voltages are ok, so I guess the chipset could be the cause of the problem after all as it is not properly powering the RTC crystal? I may have a go at replacing the chipset unless anyone has any other suggestions?

Cheers

 

[tiagobaracho]

i never understood well the S0, S3, s5 on the voltages.. they are states right ? but what does it mean on the board?

 

[tiagobaracho]

Test to seeif the smc gets voltage right to it (im not talking just about g3h but G3h to the input of the chip.

3.3vs0 and s3 would only apear if the SMC had activated the MCP as the MCP sends signals to activate different power states.

Youd need a reballing stencile to pull one on a scrap board, theres three different firmware versions, you need to be sure you get the same version, the firmware version is indicated by the second line of the chip.
Its a hard job and im not telling you it will definatley resolve your problem, however with charging problems/no liquid damage and symptoms slowly getting worse thats the only thing i imagen it could be.

ZZZAC in this post told that we need to replace the SMC for the same with the same second line..
I just replaced the SMC of my 17 inches macbook and it finally detected the battery and the battery level worked... but now it turns on, chime but no video and only one fan is rotating...but i can hear the HD noise booting..
The SMC i got from a scrap board and it was exactly the same..., the second line was the same..this board had only one fan...
I entered the Apple SMC firmware download page and there is a lot of SMC firmware versions... So... Is that for sure all we need ? The second line of the SMC to be the same ? Isnt there more to it like all of those firmwares ?
I replaced perfectly, reballing and using a good kester flux...

 

[grize]

ZZZAC in this post told that we need to replace the SMC for the same with the same second line..
I just replaced the SMC of my 17 inches macbook and it finally detected the battery and the battery level worked... but now it turns on, chime but no video and only one fan is rotating...but i can hear the HD noise booting..
The SMC i got from a scrap board and it was exactly the same..., the second line was the same..this board had only one fan...
I entered the Apple SMC firmware download page and there is a lot of SMC firmware versions... So... Is that for sure all we need ? The second line of the SMC to be the same ? Isnt there more to it like all of those firmwares ?
I replaced perfectly, reballing and using a good kester flux...

Hi,

I would be interested to know the answer to this too. I've bought a couple of SMC chips recently for the 15" board I am working on. Despite having the same details on the second line of the chip, they were being sold as pre programmed SMC chips for 13" machines. Surely this will mean they will have the wrong firmware version on for a 15"?

Cheers

 

[tiagobaracho]

Hi,

I would be interested to know the answer to this too. I've bought a couple of SMC chips recently for the 15" board I am working on. Despite having the same details on the second line of the chip, they were being sold as pre programmed SMC chips for 13" machines. Surely this will mean they will have the wrong firmware version on for a 15"?

Cheers

yeah man.. there are some selles selling it from specifc boards and there are others selling as programmed and thats all... but from this page you can see that there are a lot of sms firmware :
http://support.apple.com/downloads/#macnotebooks

I change for one of a scrap boad that make it turn on and detect and charge the battery, another didnt do anything at all completely dead.. I am about to try to fix a 13 inches i5 here that have the same version and if it works, i will take out the smc and install on that 17 inches to see what will happens...
I am taking a very good care of the PCB when cleaning the pads, but its not good to replace so many times.... I would love to know for sure about those SMC compatibility....
I have searched on google but the only place that seems to have more advanced knowledge about it is this forum...

 

[tiagobaracho]

just found out this forum... on the last post the guy say that SMC needs to be from a specific board.. I used translator...
http://vlab.su/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14542

If only it had a recovery boot mode that we could use to update to the correct firmware version using a USB flashdrive...

 

[tiagobaracho]

the firmware on the smc i need for my 17 inche is 1.70f6 (SMC 1.7) and the ones i have are 13 inches with 1.68f99 (SMC 1.6)
on the 17 inches firmware it says it works on 15 and 17 inches... Both are two FAN.... I believe you cannot simple replace by any SMC.. you got to have a compatible firmware with your machine...
If only i knew if the 1.68f99 was compatible with the 17 inches too... because maybe the 1.70f6 is the new versions for 17 and 15 inches but from factory they could have been using 1.68f99....

PLease anyone knows about it ?

 

[tiagobaracho]

the firmware on the smc i need for my 17 inche is 1.70f6 (SMC 1.7) and the ones i have are 13 inches with 1.68f99 (SMC 1.6)
on the 17 inches firmware download page it says it works on 15 and 17 inches... Both have two FAN.... I believe you cannot simple replace by any SMC.. you got to have a compatible firmware with your machine...
If only i knew if the 1.68f99 was compatible with the 17 inches too... because maybe the 1.70f6 is the new versions for 17 and 15 inches but from factory they could have been using 1.68f99....

PLease anyone knows about it ?
I am thinking on a crazy idea....
When i replaced the first SMC did boot but was not showing anything on the screen not either on the video out..
BUT... if I use this HD in another mac , install remote desktop tool and connect remotly to this mac and install the correct firmware, it might work!...
I am pretty much waiting for a answer here from anyone saying that is sure about something regard SMC replacement before trying it...

 

[grize]

I think that it is worth a go. If the firmware is not available as a standard software update, there is a way to force flash any firmware using the terminal command "bless". See this post for more info: http://pubmem.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/flash-efi-firmware-update-manually-on-a-macbook-51/

Please let us know how you get on

 

[tiagobaracho]

I think that it is worth a go. If the firmware is not available as a standard software update, there is a way to force flash any firmware using the terminal command "bless". See this post for more info: http://pubmem.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/flash-efi-firmware-update-manually-on-a-macbook-51/

Please let us know how you get on

This is for efi .. I would need to force smc firmware ...

 

[rufunky]

Hi mate

You need to join A to B (see image) then short pins 21 and 22 into an exposed area of copper at point A. Little bit fiddly can be done. 20 and 23 are not connected to anything so forget about them.


Should be able to see what I mean from just looking at the pic I have uploaded.

Not the best looking but I didn't have much for the solder to grab onto.

EDIT: still not working! 1 beep then pause with no lcd :/

 

[grize]

This is for efi .. I would need to force smc firmware ...

Sorry my mistake. I think there is a way to force flash the SMC but I will need to Google it unless anyone else knows?

Have you tried the SMC bypass mode since replacing the SMC chip to see if it will start "all fans blazing"?

I think there is a slim chance the 15" 2009 system that I am working on may not be powering on because I have replaced the SMC chip with one that has the wrong firmware written to it. I don't think it is too likely, but it has got me wondering!

 

[tiagobaracho]

Few pictures of my SMC reball

 

[tiagobaracho]

guys... i am able to use the macbook by teamviewr !!! If only i can force a update on the SMC it would fix this !
When o open the update , It says its not the correct version, because it might check against SMC and think its a macbook 13 inches from where i got this smc...So if i could force a update on the SMC it would work.. I have acesss to everything inside the OS....
Anyone knows how to force?

 

[grize]

guys... i am able to use the macbook by teamviewr !!! If only i can force a update on the SMC it would fix this !
When o open the update , It says its not the correct version, because it might check against SMC and think its a macbook 13 inches from where i got this smc...So if i could force a update on the SMC it would work.. I have acesss to everything inside the OS....
Anyone knows how to force?

Have you tried using the firmware restoration CD from Apple? You will need to make sure you choose the correct one for your model, but here is an example:

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL77

If that doesn't work, there was a discussion much earlier on in this thread about forcing the SMC firmware and some one posted instructions on how to do it. I can't find it at the moment but it is here somewhere!

 

[tiagobaracho]

Have you tried using the firmware restoration CD from Apple? You will need to make sure you choose the correct one for your model, but here is an example:

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL77

If that doesn't work, there was a discussion much earlier on in this thread about forcing the SMC firmware and some one posted instructions on how to do it. I can't find it at the moment but it is here somewhere!

I believe this cd is for efi firmware, since they do not say anything about smc on the website
Do you know if works for smc?
Also, this cd seems to work when there is a update problem... So, you can push the power button and it do thoses beeps... Because if you try with a ok firmware it will not so the beeps or the Light blinking...

 

[tiagobaracho]

Have you tried using the firmware restoration CD from Apple? You will need to make sure you choose the correct one for your model, but here is an example:

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL77

If that doesn't work, there was a discussion much earlier on in this thread about forcing the SMC firmware and some one posted instructions on how to do it. I can't find it at the moment but it is here somewhere!

I searched a lot... Are you sure it was in this thread?

 

[grize]

I searched a lot... Are you sure it was in this thread?

Hi,

yes it was discussed here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1122338/

Nice pics of the SMC reball by the way!

 

[tiagobaracho]

I think i got it ! I update another macbook SMC to the right version and i will install on the 17 inches.. .tell you soon..

 

[smithtony22]

Not the best looking but I didn't have much for the solder to grab onto.

EDIT: still not working! 1 beep then pause with no lcd :/

Image

Image

A single beep means no RAM installed. There will be no LCD illumination or anything until the single beep issue is fixed. Obviously there was RAM installed, right?

 

[tiagobaracho]

I MADE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since i was not able to see anything on the 17 inches, I forced a update on one 13 inches with the same chip working perfectly.. Then i removed the SMD from the 13 inches, reballed and instaled on the 17 inches.. PERFECLY working... pictures coming soon

 

[grize]

I MADE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since i was not able to see anything on the 17 inches, I forced a update on one 13 inches with the same chip working perfectly.. Then i removed the SMS from the 13 inches, reballed and instaled on the 17 inches.. PERFECLY working... pictures coming soon

Good effort!

 

[tiagobaracho]

Good effort!

at least now i can use this to update any firmware on SMCs..
if only it have a socket to be able to do it without soldering...