SMC Issue on MBP 13 - Hardware Troubleshooting Guide

[hayatojin]

Whether it's the early or late ASD is largely irrelevant.

What did you do re:the water damage? Most likely not gonna fix it _now_ but IMO dismantle the entire MLB, let it soak for 5-10 mins in PURE IPA (that's Isopropyl alcohol) and then gentlt scrub with a (new) soft toothbrush. If you see dirt or corrosion in any particular area, put emphasis there.

Afterwards make sure to thoroughly dry, a hairdrier might help, and put it back. If you're lucky, it'll work.

 

[dellxps15]

Of course I had the 12V on the fuses; as I said earlier, the computer can actually turn on.


Also, after even further testing, here's what my measurements were:

Name				Measurement		Spec
		
ALWAYS ON		
		
PPBUS_G3H			11.95V			12.8V
PPBUS_S5_HS_COMPUTING_ISNS	11.93V			12.8V
PPBUS_S5_HS_OTHER_ISNS		N/A			18.5V
PPDCIN_G3H			16.8V			18.5V
PP3V42_G3H			3.46V			3.42V
PPVRTC_G3H			3.46V			3V
		
		
5V RAILS		
		
PP5V_S5				0V			5V
PP5V_SUS			0V			5V
		
		
3.3V RAILS		
		
PP3V3_S5			0V			3.3V
PP3V3_SUS			0V			3.3V

But, here's the interesting tidbit: After doing the SMC bypass procedure, the msissing 5V and 3.3V rails appeared. Both S0, SUS and S5. So, now I'm more convinced than ever that indeed, the issue is the SMC.

can u tell me how u get those spectation voltage? would be very interesting in spot wrong value i have on my u7000 chip

 

[hayatojin]

can u tell me how u get those spectation voltage? would be very interesting in spot wrong value i have on my u7000 chip

You can find them in the schematics; there's a section near the beginning called "Functional test points", that and the power source specs. Between those and the boardview you can find where to read and what to expect. Also, if you're patient and coldblooded enough to flip a connected board over and again, most measurements hace actual probes somewhere on the board.

In test-link if you press N, you can search by pin/probe, i.e. SMC_BC_ACOK, and it will show all places on the board where you can get that measurement.

 

[tiagobaracho]

I don't think that there will be a solid answer for this, but I'm going to try anyway...
I have an a1287 here now. I did an ASD and it passed everything. Issue is, the computer states that it is a LATE 2011 model, but the late 2011 ASD doesn't work, it stated it needed the early ASD, so I ran that test(both OS and EFI) and they both came back as passed. Now, background, there was some water damage. But everything seems to be running fine now(at one point the fan was blasting on high speed which it doesn't any longer). My issue now is, the batter isn't working. When booted the battery icon says "not batteries available"there is an X on the battery icon. The charger if unplugged, t if side to see battery power doesn't show ANYTHING. No lights at all. I have done both an SMC reset, as well as replaced the battery with a new one. What in your experience would this issue be? Anyone replaced the smc chip before? Is the chip a BGA?

I did a few... You need the right tools and skills
Your computer is probably slow right ?It happens when the SMC is not detecting the battery..
Check between slc and sda lines ( it can be done on the battery connector, pins 4 and 6 if i am not mistaken.... It should be around 3.9 - 4k.. this is just a partial test..
also between sda and gnd and slc and gnd you should test 80k-140k ( chargin up).. if when you connect is around 80 and start to go 90 - 100 - 120 its ok
If both checks ok, it means the caps and resistors on the SDA and SLC lines are ok... so its the SMC chip... this is a common failure...

----------

Of course I had the 12V on the fuses; as I said earlier, the computer can actually turn on.


Also, after even further testing, here's what my measurements were:

Name				Measurement		Spec
		
ALWAYS ON		
		
PPBUS_G3H			11.95V			12.8V
PPBUS_S5_HS_COMPUTING_ISNS	11.93V			12.8V
PPBUS_S5_HS_OTHER_ISNS		N/A			18.5V
PPDCIN_G3H			16.8V			18.5V
PP3V42_G3H			3.46V			3.42V
PPVRTC_G3H			3.46V			3V
		
		
5V RAILS		
		
PP5V_S5				0V			5V
PP5V_SUS			0V			5V
		
		
3.3V RAILS		
		
PP3V3_S5			0V			3.3V
PP3V3_SUS			0V			3.3V

But, here's the interesting tidbit: After doing the SMC bypass procedure, the msissing 5V and 3.3V rails appeared. Both S0, SUS and S5. So, now I'm more convinced than ever that indeed, the issue is the SMC.

what means not available on PPBUS_S5_HS_OTHER_ISNS?
did you check before and after the fuse on PPBUS_S5_HS_OTHER_ISNS ?

 

[yum114]

I did a few... You need the right tools and skills
Your computer is probably slow right ?It happens when the SMC is not detecting the battery..
Check between slc and sda lines ( it can be done on the battery connector, pins 4 and 6 if i am not mistaken.... It should be around 3.9 - 4k.. this is just a partial test..
also between sda and gnd and slc and gnd you should test 80k-140k ( chargin up).. if when you connect is around 80 and start to go 90 - 100 - 120 its ok
If both checks ok, it means the caps and resistors on the SDA and SLC lines are ok... so its the SMC chip... this is a common failure...

Multimeter set to Ohms?
One probe touching the 4th pin on the battery connector(the actual pin sticking out of the motherboard), and the other pin touching the 6th pin?
computer charging cable plugged in? computer turned off, correct?
Sorry for the stupid questions...

 

[tiagobaracho]

Multimeter set to Ohms?
One probe touching the 4th pin on the battery connector(the actual pin sticking out of the motherboard), and the other pin touching the 6th pin?
computer charging cable plugged in? computer turned off, correct?
Sorry for the stupid questions...

disconnected battery and magsafe, directly on PCB connector for the battery..
no ofense, if you are asking this, you should probably not do it...

 

[yum114]

disconnected battery and magsafe, directly on PCB connector for the battery..
no ofense, if you are asking this, you should probably not do it...

We've all got to start somewhere. The more you learn, the easier it is for you to think something is second nature. If you don't wish to help, I can understand, but just because someone knows something doesn't neccessarily mean that everyone else SHOULD. We all learn differently, at different times, for different reasons.

 

[tiagobaracho]

We've all got to start somewhere. The more you learn, the easier it is for you to think something is second nature. If you don't wish to help, I can understand, but just because someone knows something doesn't neccessarily mean that everyone else SHOULD. We all learn differently, at different times, for different reasons.

as i said.. i dont mean to offend you.. but if you do not know how to use your tools( multimeter), you should not be playing around with macbook... There are so many things that can go wrong and worsen the problem... and so many things you need to learn about electronics to be able to diagnose a problem.

I have no problem to help, as I already helped you on the last answer and as i have been ( almost the only one) for the last few pages in this thread.


What I mean is that, for example, you ask a doctor what should you do to operate your sister that have a heart condition, what tools should you get and where to cut and how to cut.... there are so many things before working on this type of PCBs that need to be learned.. For example.. You need the right type of solder iron.. if you use cheap ones it can damage many other ICs, you can corrupt your bios and your board will not boot even if you fix the other problem.. If you use a wrong multimeter tip you will probably short the board just probing...there are not much spaces on those boards..

Well this is it... don't mean to offend you but i hope you get the point... You cannot just begin to make heart surgery with success before you learn medicine...
I can help you here, but i cannot explain what tool to use and in which manner... you need to know electronics to be able to work with success fixing macbooks MB...
I really hope you get the point that this is not a offensive reply...

 

[yum114]

I appreciate your help thus far.
I do understand your point, and where you are coming from.
Thing is, I learn a lot from piecing together information and simply ******** with *****.
It's just how I learn.
Now, you may tell me and I fix the board, you may tell me what I asked and I ruin the board, or I may fix the board or ruin it without your telling me. Truth of the matter is, regardless of which outcome I get, I won't stop until I fix the issue, or I ruin the board. In most cases, I tend to fix the issue. But hey, thanks anyway for the help that you have given thus far. I'm sure one way or another, I will figure it out.

For the record, the analogy about the doctor, a life would be at stake. In this case, it's a board at stake. If I loose out on this board, me and my sister will both be alive.
Honestly though, I wonder how far we would be in life without F ups. Probably not very far. Difference is, I know they are bound to happen, and am willing to go through them if for nothing more than the learning experience. Have a good evening.

as i said.. i dont mean to offend you.. but if you do not know how to use your tools( multimeter), you should not be playing around with macbook... There are so many things that can go wrong and worsen the problem... and so many things you need to learn about electronics to be able to diagnose a problem.

I have no problem to help, as I already helped you on the last answer and as i have been ( almost the only one) for the last few pages in this thread.


What I mean is that, for example, you ask a doctor what should you do to operate your sister that have a heart condition, what tools should you get and where to cut and how to cut.... there are so many things before working on this type of PCBs that need to be learned.. For example.. You need the right type of solder iron.. if you use cheap ones it can damage many other ICs, you can corrupt your bios and your board will not boot even if you fix the other problem.. If you use a wrong multimeter tip you will probably short the board just probing...there are not much spaces on those boards..

Well this is it... don't mean to offend you but i hope you get the point... You cannot just begin to make heart surgery with success before you learn medicine...
I can help you here, but i cannot explain what tool to use and in which manner... you need to know electronics to be able to work with success fixing macbooks MB...
I really hope you get the point that this is not a offensive reply...

 

[dellxps15]

You can find them in the schematics; there's a section near the beginning called "Functional test points", that and the power source specs. Between those and the boardview you can find where to read and what to expect. Also, if you're patient and coldblooded enough to flip a connected board over and again, most measurements hace actual probes somewhere on the board.

In test-link if you press N, you can search by pin/probe, i.e. SMC_BC_ACOK, and it will show all places on the board where you can get that measurement.

tnx for the info, very usefull so now i can check every functional spot on board.

yesterday i got a 15 inch with liquid spill. does anybody have schematic and board view fo 820-2330-a macbook pro 15 inch 2008 ?

after clean almost everything i see some component is corroded and need to check what is it. also lcd connector 40 pin has last 3 left pins corroded and need to know if they are in use or not.



ps: regarding the complain in the other post, i understand both. me too got in the situation to want to learn and want to fix some board, and me too had t ostart from a beginner point of view. now i can do most of the thing by miself, but in this kind of thing u'll never stop learing , expecially with macbooks that are more complicated compared to other notebook

 

[hayatojin]

SMC Issue on MBP 13 - Hardware Troubleshooting Guide

tnx for the info, very usefull so now i can check every functional spot on board.



yesterday i got a 15 inch with liquid spill. does anybody have schematic and board view fo 820-2330-a macbook pro 15 inch 2008 ?



after clean almost everything i see some component is corroded and need to check what is it. also lcd connector 40 pin has last 3 left pins corroded and need to know if they are in use or not.

No prob. I'm not sure about the schematics but I'm positive I've seen them somehow so shouldn't be too hard to find them.


And, question of my own, for anybody. Have the schematics and boardview for a macbook air 13" mid-2012 been posted on this thread somewhere before?

Would somebody point me to them or alternatively upload them somewhere for me?

 

[GlassOgnion]

You can find them in the schematics; there's a section near the beginning called "Functional test points", that and the power source specs. Between those and the boardview you can find where to read and what to expect. Also, if you're patient and coldblooded enough to flip a connected board over and again, most measurements hace actual probes somewhere on the board.

In test-link if you press N, you can search by pin/probe, i.e. SMC_BC_ACOK, and it will show all places on the board where you can get that measurement.

In the boardview file when you search for a net you get all the components (in green) that are related with this net and you also have a probe point illuminated in white and red. How do you use this probe point ? Someone can explain ? Thanks.

 

[tiagobaracho]

I appreciate your help thus far.
I do understand your point, and where you are coming from.
Thing is, I learn a lot from piecing together information and simply ******** with *****.
It's just how I learn.
Now, you may tell me and I fix the board, you may tell me what I asked and I ruin the board, or I may fix the board or ruin it without your telling me. Truth of the matter is, regardless of which outcome I get, I won't stop until I fix the issue, or I ruin the board. In most cases, I tend to fix the issue. But hey, thanks anyway for the help that you have given thus far. I'm sure one way or another, I will figure it out.

For the record, the analogy about the doctor, a life would be at stake. In this case, it's a board at stake. If I loose out on this board, me and my sister will both be alive.
Honestly though, I wonder how far we would be in life without F ups. Probably not very far. Difference is, I know they are bound to happen, and am willing to go through them if for nothing more than the learning experience. Have a good evening.

my analogy about the doctor what not about what was at stake, but about the complexty of the situation.....
The main thing is that this thread would be not so usefull if we had to teach from the use of a multimeter to fixing the MB of a mac... I would not participate here, i dont have time...If you dont know how to use it, you should try to learn on other places and ask here about the macbook problem... I really hope you understand... Most of us that really know how to fix, working do it and already takes a good time to reply here just to help with no other intention.. .I get nothing in return .. i just help.. Bu i cannot came here and explain from the ways to use a multimeter to the troubleshooting of motherboard.... Takes too much effort and the main thing here some of us are sharing is the most expensive of all : advanced knowledge about troubleshooting and fixing macbooks. The cheapest is describing how to use a a multimeter..... So this was my point... Instead of taking our time to share a expensive knowledge , we would be using to describe how to use a multimeter that if you google you gonna find everywhere and if you google about hardware issue on macbooks you will almost only find it here ! mainly in this specific thread !
I was not saying that someone should not learn, or should not try..... but should learn the steps needed first.... if you dont know how to use a screw drive... google and understand and see some videos... after that the next step and so on....
Well.. not talking anymore about it..... just wanted to be objective here... I take nothing back here, just help...

I do share here things that i would never share with someone in my city, that i learned by myself and can achieve good results... I would not help a competitor in my city... i do make money of it and i invested a lot in my tools and a lot of time to learn the best way to do something...Just bought a 2500 usd microscope to be able to do it even better.
This month i got around 20 macbooks and i was able to fix all... but i am always hoping to get a harder one to fix to learn more..
Answers in this thread have take long time here.. I change it replaying pretty fast all the question here just to help...

 

[dellxps15]

sorry for the dumb question, but on a macbook pro 13 i7 2011, like in this picture https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/myolN4iXlptaVJUd.huge

in the northbridge and sb or vga with that metal copper, do i need to put some thermal pad ?

or it's not needed ?

ok thermal compound on cpu, but my question is on that other metal shield do i need to put those 0.5 1mm thermal pad ?

 

[tiagobaracho]

sorry for the dumb question, but on a macbook pro 13 i7 2011, like in this picture https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/myolN4iXlptaVJUd.huge

in the northbridge and sb or vga with that metal copper, do i need to put some thermal pad ?

or it's not needed ?

ok thermal compound on cpu, but my question is on that other metal shield do i need to put those 0.5 1mm thermal pad ?

for a good job you need... its not thermal compound..its a thermal pad as you said... but you can reuse the one that comes with... you just need to scrape it in to the middle of the core and let it spread when you press the metal plate to screw....
If you dont do that, you may never have a problem but maybe, you may have and maybe you may have a unstable system....

 

[zondas]

Macbook Pro Battery Problem X icon

Hallo

I have a Problem with my Macbook Pro 15 mid 2010 after Water Spill.If i plug in the Magsafe Adapter , the Magsafe light is green but the Macbook is not find the Battery.There is only the X icon.With a new Battery is the same Problem.Can You help me Please.What i have to check of Components of the Logicboard.I have the Shematic and the brd File.It is a 820-2850-A

i have test the Pins.

R5280 Pin 1 = 3,42V Pin 2 = 0,5V , 0,1V , ( fluctuates )
R5281 Pin 1 = 3,42V Pin 2 = 0V

J6950 (With Battery)

Pin 1-3 = 12V
Pin 4 = 0V
Pin 6 = 0,42 0,16 0,9 its fluctuates

I test it all with a Multimeter.


PS: Sorry for my English , i´m from Germany

 

[tiagobaracho]

Hallo

I have a Problem with my Macbook Pro 15 mid 2010 after Water Spill.If i plug in the Magsafe Adapter , the Magsafe light is green but the Macbook is not find the Battery.There is only the X icon.With a new Battery is the same Problem.Can You help me Please.What i have to check of Components of the Logicboard.I have the Shematic and the brd File.It is a 820-2850-A

i have test the Pins.

R5280 Pin 1 = 3,42V Pin 2 = 0,5V , 0,1V , ( fluctuates )
R5281 Pin 1 = 3,42V Pin 2 = 0V

J6950 (With Battery)

Pin 1-3 = 12V
Pin 4 = 0V
Pin 6 = 0,42 0,16 0,9 its fluctuates

I test it all with a Multimeter.


PS: Sorry for my English , i´m from Germany

its very common on water spill and on dusty/moiture macbooks this problem.. almost always its the SMC that need to be replaced...
Please check SDA and SLC lines as I posted on this page or last page... about the 3.9k measure .....

 

[LouisJB]

I'm awaiting to get a new multimeter before taking some measurements on my 2.8GHz A1286 2010 15" that doesn't charge or recognise the battery anymore (no water damage, bad battery fitted). But it does power on from AC adapter. Since the battery went flat, now I can only boot via SMC bypass also too.

Just curious, I hope it may be some simple component failure but if it traces right back to the SMC chip, what is the success rate to replace that?

Has anyone done one successfully? Given a hot air gun and much patience it is not to risky to remove the old without lifting pads etc? Also, is there a source of SMC chips other than old boards?

 

[hayatojin]

for a good job you need... its not thermal compound..its a thermal pad as you said... but you can reuse the one that comes with... you just need to scrape it in to the middle of the core and let it spread when you press the metal plate to screw....
If you dont do that, you may never have a problem but maybe, you may have and maybe you may have a unstable system....

My personal mac didn't have a pad, a couple months ago I repasted it with IC Diamond and put some under the othe shield, worked wonders. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Leodev]

macbook pro A1286 won't startup

I try to repair a Macbook pro A1286 Mid 2009 with the Bil connector damaged (liquid).
Also the keyboard has a problem but I was able to start up the system.
I cleaned the connector but there are missing some connector parts in the bil connector (test battery system).
Now the system will not start at all!
Battery is charging!

I try resetting the smc, but no luck.
I did not use the bill connector so can this be the reason for not starting up.

Are there any point on the logic board I can check for locating the problem?

Thanks for any sugestions

 

[tiagobaracho]

My personal mac didn't have a pad, a couple months ago I repasted it with IC Diamond and put some under the othe shield, worked wonders. Just my 2 cents.

they dont use a exactly a thermal pad... they use some kind of thermal "clay" ..... something like that... but a thermal paste is not very adequated because on those two ICs there is a space between both.. Its not like the heat sink on the cpu that have direct contact and you only use a small amount to transfer better the heat...
For this reason thermal paste can spread and stop making contact and also it was not designed to big gap applications... For this one is thermal pad....
They use those types of thermal compound that sometimes came already attached to cpu heat sink that is not liquid or paste.... seems like " clay".. Dont know exactly the name for it.. but thermal pad is a perfect replacement in this case.

 

[hayatojin]

they dont use a exactly a thermal pad... they use some kind of thermal "clay" ..... something like that... but a thermal paste is not very adequated because on those two ICs there is a space between both.. Its not like the heat sink on the cpu that have direct contact and you only use a small amount to transfer better the heat...
For this reason thermal paste can spread and stop making contact and also it was not designed to big gap applications... For this one is thermal pad....
They use those types of thermal compound that sometimes came already attached to cpu heat sink that is not liquid or paste.... seems like " clay".. Dont know exactly the name for it.. but thermal pad is a perfect replacement in this case.

Those are just pre-applied thermal paste.

 

[dellxps15]

ok, as far the intel chipset on many laptop didnt have any heatsink, ill left it that way (remove mainboard is a huge work).

about the macbook air with battery slow on charging and powering off when only on battery, i have tried that:


1: after osx is fully loaded, battery voltage pass from 7.8volt (it has a nominal 7.2v output) goes to 6.8-7.3 volt.

if i do that test while osx is loading (under cpu usage and hdd spinning)

voltage goes down to 6 - 6.5 and when voltage reach 5volt pc power off.

battery has 42 cycle and is a compatible one. so my question is : bad battery, or macbook is demanding much more voltage ?

 

[tiagobaracho]

Those are just pre-applied thermal paste.

exactly.. but they are kind of thicker than normal thermal paste that comes on syringes... Anyway... the one they use is thick like a clay... dont know the name of this type.. but thermal pad works perfectly

 

[hayatojin]

exactly.. but they are kind of thicker than normal thermal paste that comes on syringes... Anyway... the one they use is thick like a clay... dont know the name of this type.. but thermal pad works perfectly

Depends on brand, probably. Different brands are more or less thick. IC Diamond for example, is retardedly thick.