Snow Leopard on Unsupported PowerPC Macs

[Larsvonhier]

Is there any way to get this working on the Powerbook G4 5,1 1.25 GHz?
I really wanna try it out as I just got it and wanna do some fun stuff with it.

absolutely, go ahead, should be no problem on this machine (other than the bugs & quirks we discuss here ;-)
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This is my first post from within Snow Leopard. I had a hassle getting it on to a external USB SSD drive and booted, but it finally complied.

Interestingly enough, my 7800 GT on this Dual Core 2.3 Ghz G5 shows CoreImage and Quartz supported. I'm not sure if I believe that. I'm running off of a USB, so not sure what it will feel like to boot internally. It's also not showing all of my RAM. Only 6GB is weird. This G5 has 10GB.

Safari loads but crashed. TenFourFox runs decently via TenFourFoxDownloader.

Ready to tinker some more.

Wow, that would be great to add another GPU to "fully supported" beside the 6600(LE) !

As for the RAM, is is possible that you have some "weird" RAM size combination, i.e. multiple 512MB and 1-2GB combined in unmatched slots? Perhaps regrouping those might help.

Thanks for your blog entry these days on G5center.net !
There are even more ideas what to do with a finely tuned SL_PPC... I guess we´ll all be suprised bit by bit in the months to come. (i.e.: Magic trackpad drivers never saw the light of the day on Leopard, but Magic mouse did. SL had them both. Apple marketing decision, perhaps reversable now).

 

[NathanJHill]

As for the RAM, is is possible that you have some "weird" RAM size combination, i.e. multiple 512MB and 1-2GB combined in unmatched slots? Perhaps regrouping those might help.

Yes. I have two sets of 2GB sticks for 8 GB and then 4 512MB sticks for the other slots. So, one of the 2x2GB sets must not be registering. I did happen to order another set this morning, so we'll see.

Network works, but I don't have Airport in the G5. So, it's a wired connection. I haven't even dared look at System log.

BTW, I also have a Snow Leopard 10.6.0 install DVD. I've been poking through it, and the kernel and most frameworks appear to be PPC compatible. I am contemplating what to swap over to tinker around and see what can work. Stay tuned.

 

[Larsvonhier]

Yes. I have two sets of 2GB sticks for 8 GB and then 4 512MB sticks for the other slots. So, one of the 2x2GB sets must not be registering. I did happen to order another set this morning, so we'll see.

Network works, but I don't have Airport in the G5. So, it's a wired connection. I haven't even dared look at System log.

BTW, I also have a Snow Leopard 10.6.0 install DVD. I've been poking through it, and the kernel and most frameworks appear to be PPC compatible. I am contemplating what to swap over to tinker around and see what can work. Stay tuned.

Could you find out what kernel and build version the 10.6.0 contains?
I´d bet kernel is 10.0.0 (without any d-suffix)...
And yes, system.log often is a mess. A few permanent crashes and service restarts have been fixed in the meantime, but there´s still lot to do.
For some reason, A96 seems less buggy than the A190 build right now. Would be interesting what server builds near number A190 exist and are available (somewhere).

 

[vddrnnr]

Hi @NathanJHill,

Thats what I said all along if the 6600 is working
with the SL kexts then all others should work to unless
they are not recognized by the kexts.
Nathan thanx for the sshot of your system profiler.

PS @Larsvonhier this is good news

Best regards,
voidRunner

 

[Hughmac]

Interestingly, the patch found by @vddrnnr for re-enabling printer control panel also seems to be a cure for the repeating crash of widgets.
See his list of files that have to be swapped in his earlier post. (Note: The files cupsenable and cupsdisable are only aliases to the file accept which should be replaced instead due to intel-only binary on 10.6)
I tried this on the A190 build.
Pls. see if you can repeat this cure on your machine(s)!

That's a no go on the 10A190 build on a PowerBook 1.67 AI - Printer and Fax in System Prefs still just results in a beachball and has to be force quit.
Dashboard - so far I can load iStat, Clock, Calculator and Unit Converter without any crashes, but iCal causes an instant crash.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[Larsvonhier]

Sidenote: Airport (BRCM4311 in IO80211Family.kext) loads and works with 10A96 on PowerBook 5,2 (1GHz) and also PowerBook 5,8 (1,67GHz).
So either other machines use other chipsets in the Apple Airport cards (and those plugins are missing) or the PCMCIA chipset differ from MB to MB...
But (as with the GPU issues): One successful setup means - it can be done, probably on other configurations too!

edit: Same PB 5,2 configuration with 10A190 does not have operational airport. PB5,8 not checked yet with 10A190. Might be patched incompletely initially, though. Will see to that soon.

 

[Hughmac]

I have a broken 5,2 (both RAM slots useless) and a working 5,6 - I wonder if the airport cards are interchangeable?
I have a 10A190 build on my PB rather than 10A96 though

Cheers

Hugh

 

[Larsvonhier]

I have a broken 5,2 (both RAM slots useless) and a working 5,6 - I wonder if the airport cards are interchangeable?
I have a 10A190 build on my PB rather than 10A96 though

Cheers

Hugh

The airport cards are interchangeable within MacBooks - ahem, PowerBooks, of course. Only eMacs and G5s in some versions have two different card connector (slots).

 

[Hughmac]

The airport cards are interchangeable within MacBooks. Only eMacs and G5s in some versions have two different card connector (slots).

I take it you mean interchangeable within PowerBooks?

Anyway I will try tomorrow if I can find the time away from fence painting

Cheers

Hugh

 

[Larsvonhier]

I take it you mean interchangeable within PowerBooks?

Anyway I will try tomorrow if I can find the time away from fence painting

Cheers

Hugh

Yes, thanks, corrected the post. Also note my additions on 10A190 above.
And make sure you give your fence enough RAM ;-)

 

[Hughmac]

Yes, thanks, corrected the post. Also note my note on 10A190 above.
And make sure you give your fence enough RAM ;-)

Ah, maybe I'll wait then, I hadn't realised it's buried under the logic board

I have a spare Airport Extreme card that I think came from an old Intel iMac, so might only be half the work involved.

The other possibilty is adding vendor and device IDs to the airport kext?

Cheers

Hugh

 

[NathanJHill]

I'll try to identify the mach_kernel version in a bit.

My latest update:

First, I changed to the newer kernel on the Snow Leopard retail release (10.6.0) and went ahead and just copied all of the Frameworks from the Install disc over onto the USB boot drive. The G5 tried to boot, the fans got loud, and then they stayed loud.

Second, just now, I refreshed the USB Snow Leopard install and only added Accelerate, CoreVideo, Quartz, and QuartzExtreme frameworks. The G5 has gotten farther in booting up, but the little circle is spinning for a while. I think it's a no go.

(Update) Third try with just the Quartz frameworks left changed and the newer mach_kernel in place. Just loud fans. Nothing more. Of course, the kernel could be looking for something else.

Here's the thing, and it's my hunch right now. The Mach_Kernel in the Snow Leopard developer build looked like it was made in October 2008. The release Mach_Kernel is dated to August 2009. If true, this could suggest that what we are messing with was an early build that is more related to Leopard than Snow Leopard. It would also explain why moving Frameworks over and calling it a day isn't going to work. Potentially. A lot of development happened in 11 months.

I hope I'm just being a pessimist and am proven wrong.

 

[Hughmac]

So, I've just added 3 extra ID strings that were in the info.plist of the 10.5.8 AppleAirPortBrcm4311.kext (within IO80211Family.kext) to the one in 10.6 v10A190.
No joy, still no Airport detected

Don't forget I am fishing here and harking back to my hackintosh days, but with no real knowledge

Maybe next I'll try swapping the whole AppleAirPortBrcm4311.kext or the complete IO80211Family.kext

Cheers

Hugh

 

[armdn]

Great to see dual G4 also in the "now running SL" list!
What you can also can try is to enable QuartzGL with the OSX86Tools from page #2. (CI will still be done by software and OpenGL remains a mystery, but performance with QE is slightly better - might not be noticable on your fast(er) machine, but you can give it a try nevertheless).

Already done that...
So what graphic cards actually works for now?
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Two ways to start:
a) use the 10A96 installation "ready to go"
or
b) use one of the two (10A96 or 10A190) builds to patch the system yourself as described earlier here in the thread

No complete step-by-step tutorial yet, but follow the hints and infos especially on the first few pages and you should be up & running SL on PPC.
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Yes, it does not complain in any way, other than what I noticed with 10A190 whenever I try to swap frameworks:

"com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.usbmuxd[nr]): getpwnam("_usbmuxd") failed"
this goes on and on with increasing nr in brackets above.

I have corrected all file attributes and ownership permissions and also used disk utilities to check / correct errors. None found, and does not boot and stalls with the message above.

edit:
Gonna try this on A96 now...
Here it´s working in so far as it boots. No better graphics performance noticeable on eMac... am I missing something?
(QGL is enabled with OSX86Tools, NVDANV10 and RESMAN loaded, but Geforce kext missing now). Ok, reboot this now on PowerBook...

edit & hooray:
10A96 on PowerBook G4 with Radeon 9000 is now with fluid UI, as discovered by @vddrnnr

Going to get some sleep now, positive about getting 10A190 the same soon!

Did you try to load Kext manually with -t key? kextload could say what is wrong.

 

[B S Magnet]

I'll try to identify the mach_kernel version in a bit.

My latest update:

First, I changed to the newer kernel on the Snow Leopard retail release (10.6.0) and went ahead and just copied all of the Frameworks from the Install disc over onto the USB boot drive. The G5 tried to boot, the fans got loud, and then they stayed loud.

Second, just now, I refreshed the USB Snow Leopard install and only added Accelerate, CoreVideo, Quartz, and QuartzExtreme frameworks. The G5 has gotten farther in booting up, but the little circle is spinning for a while. I think it's a no go.

(Update) Third try with just the Quartz frameworks left changed and the newer mach_kernel in place. Just loud fans. Nothing more. Of course, the kernel could be looking for something else.

Here's the thing, and it's my hunch right now. The Mach_Kernel in the Snow Leopard developer build looked like it was made in October 2008. The release Mach_Kernel is dated to August 2009. If true, this could suggest that what we are messing with was an early build that is more related to Leopard than Snow Leopard. It would also explain why moving Frameworks over and calling it a day isn't going to work. Potentially. A lot of development happened in 11 months.

I hope I'm just being a pessimist and am proven wrong.

It sounds like you’re trying to boot the system without the verbose boot flag active.

If you haven’t already, try activating it (this can be done from either a command line or using a utility like Cocktail (OS X-version-irrespective). Verbose ought to reveal much more about what’s hanging where during the boot process of your modified kext/kernel setups.

 

[NathanJHill]

It sounds like you’re trying to boot the system without the verbose boot flag active.

If you haven’t already, try activating it (this can be done from either a command line or using a utility like Cocktail (OS X-version-irrespective). Verbose ought to reveal much more about what’s hanging where during the boot process of your modified kext/kernel setups.

Yes, planning to do that today - it was just a fun, go for it experiment yesterday to start tinkering and messing around.

But again, if I compare the Quartz.Framework from the Snow Leopard developer's build and the Snow Leopard Release DVD, there is a lot of difference. The Quartz binary on the developer build is 9K - it's 56k on the Snow Leopard Release DVD. I bet the 10.5.8 QuartzFramework is different too. Lots of questions.

The other weird thing in this Developer Build:

If I go into, say, WebkitFramework from terminal (\System\Library\Frameworks\Webkit.framework\) and try "file Webkit", the response is that it's empty:

WebKit: empty

If I go into the Snow Leopard DVD to the same folder and hit "file Webkit", it gives me:

WebKit: Mach-O universal binary with 3 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library x86_64] [i386] [ppc_7400]
WebKit (for architecture x86_64):    Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library x86_64
WebKit (for architecture i386):    Mach-O dynamically linked shared library i386
WebKit (for architecture ppc7400):    Mach-O dynamically linked shared library ppc_7400

Again, my hunch is that this Developer Build is really, really stripped down, which is why things are weird and buggy.

 

[vddrnnr]

Hi @NathanJHill,

For the Webkit part which includes running Safari you can find on
my previous post how to get Safari 5.0.6 from Leopard running.
It's in post #149

@Larsvonhier maybe we should pust on the first post links to
these posts?

Best regards,
voidRunner

 

[NathanJHill]

For the Webkit part which includes running Safari you can find on
my previous post how to get Safari 5.0.6 from Leopard running.
It's in post #149

Definitely going to give that a try - but my little tinkering around applies to Quartz.Framework, CoreVideo, and others. For some reason, the Developer Build shows them as empty. It makes me wonder if this was just a really early test build, with mostly placeholders for future components that would be compiled/updated. Again, I am going to swap around more components to see what comes up, starting shortly.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Definitely going to give that a try - but my little tinkering around applies to Quartz.Framework, CoreVideo, and others. For some reason, the Developer Build shows them as empty. It makes me wonder if this was just a really early test build, with mostly placeholders for future components that would be compiled/updated. Again, I am going to swap around more components to see what comes up, starting shortly.

I’ve been doing the same thing with all of the beta builds and my retail copy of 10.6.3 server, as well as the 10.6.8 combo update. Thus far the majority of binaries are intel and many of the ‘universal’ are actually just intel in universal wrappers. Some aren’t though so I’m tinkering to see what i can salvage before i resort to lengthy compiles using Apple Open source - obviously only core files are made open so anything UI related will most likely require some patching or forward porting from 10.5.8 as has been done thus far.

The Dock and Dashboard Client from 10A222 are an improvement over 10A190 with regard to protecting system crash resistance - only the dock crashes and auto-restarts when dashboard glitches for example. Still ironing out the kinks on that one.

 

[Larsvonhier]

Hi @NathanJHill,

For the Webkit part which includes running Safari you can find on
my previous post how to get Safari 5.0.6 from Leopard running.
It's in post #149

@Larsvonhier maybe we should pust on the first post links to
these posts?

Best regards,
voidRunner

Yes, that would be very helpful for all who did not enter in the early stages or follow up everything from the beginning.
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It sounds like you’re trying to boot the system without the verbose boot flag active.

If you haven’t already, try activating it (this can be done from either a command line or using a utility like Cocktail (OS X-version-irrespective). Verbose ought to reveal much more about what’s hanging where during the boot process of your modified kext/kernel setups.

...or press and hold cmd-v (on PPC keyboards Apple-v) during boot, that does it selectively and not permanently if you don´t dare or just want to try it out.
...you´d also see the kernel version in the log output then ;-) (If it´s loaded at all so far).
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In the meantime, I found some usable stuff (for A190 at least) on the "Snow Leopard Magic Trackpad Update" from Apple. They released it when the two "magic" gadgets came out.
Still lots of PPC (universal) binaries on there, also frameworks and even two kexts (BT related).
Briefly checked some apps, they run on A190 and obviously are higher versions than we have right now.
What I still do not get is why the slightest change in framework or private framework components kills bootability early on. That´s not the case on A96 but a big handicap in A190.
Any clues here?

 

[vddrnnr]

Hi @Larsvonhier,

Can it be that it's dependencies on dynamic libraries that may have
changed for the 190 and so previous frameworks don't run anymore?
If I read correctly the "changes" manifest posted earlier they mention
to all developers that big changes had happened from prior DPs maybe
that is one of them.
Have you tried replacing libSystem.B.dylib, it's one of the most used?
Ojne thing I know it's not the kernel because I'm running d2 so it must
be something else.

PS. On a side note I'm doing some tests with VLC version 0.8.6i does anyone know of
a mp4 divx based or even ac1 encoded movie with a width close to 1000px but not 720p. I want
to test one but I cannot find any.

Best regards,
voidRunner

 

[Larsvonhier]

Hi @Larsvonhier,

Can it be that it's dependencies on dynamic libraries that may have
changed for the 190 and so previous frameworks don't run anymore?
If I read correctly the "changes" manifest posted earlier they mention
to all developers that big changes had happened from prior DPs maybe
that is one of them.
Have you tried replacing libSystem.B.dylib, it's one of the most used?
Ojne thing I know it's not the kernel because I'm running d2 so it must
be something else.

PS. On a side note I'm doing some tests with VLC version 0.8.6i does anyone know of
a mp4 divx based or even ac1 encoded movie with a width close to 1000px but not 720p. I want
to test one but I cannot find any.

Best regards,
voidRunner

Good points to consider.
Whats so disturbing is that also (slightly) newer frameworks have the same effect on A190.
I´ll try to replace the dylib you mentioned, without any other changes and see what happens.

You´re running A96 with the A190 kernel d2? Good to know if that´s the case. Even newer kernels could run then...?

As for the movie files: You could easily convert any movie you have (i.e. fullHD) into your desired format/container/codec/resolution with ffmpeg (on an intel mac, that is).
Or ask @0403979, he did some experiments on his iMac PPC recently with movie clips.

 

[Hughmac]

There was a small discussion on the PPC forum (in an unrelated thread) about what to call a Leopard/Snow Leopard hybrid OS such as this is becoming, to differentiate it from the Intel 10.6 - how about 'Mountain Leopard'?

Cheers

Hugh

 

[Larsvonhier]

There was a small discussion on the PPC forum (in an unrelated thread) about what to call a Leopard/Snow Leopard hybrid OS such as this is becoming, to differentiate it from the Intel 10.6 - how about 'Mountain Leopard'?

Cheers

Hugh

I would not call it that for 1.5 reasons ;-)

1. There is a skin package tool that combines the look of Mountain Lion with Leopard, and that´s already called "Mountain Leopard" (also "Snow Leopard rebirth" would be ruled out for a similar reason ;-)

1.5 I do not really see a need for a new name. It´s still a Snow Leopard, running on PPC, or short SL_PPC.
In universal macOS times, we also did not differentiate between Tiger, PPC and Tiger, intel for example.

Classifying it as "hybrid" is imho not doing it a favour either. Do we call Catalina or Mojave on unsupported machines "hybrid" just because parts of earlier OS had to be taken and included to make them run...?
(Just my 2ct.)

 

[jimjamyaha]

Evening! (Or whatever time it is where you are)! Have emerged from childcare/work committments to spend a bit more time.

Got the freshly installed SL image provided on Macintosh Garden 10A190 to boot on my Dual 533 Digital Audio G4 (DAG4).

Used a 2012 MacBookPro (MBP) and a Firewire800 to 400 cable to boot the DAG4 in FireWire Target mode and then image it onto a 7GB partition on an IDE hard disk in the DAG4.

Whilst doing this found some useful stufffor future tinkering:

1) Fouhd all the images and source files used to get 10.5 on G4 upgraded PowerMacs
2) Found several SCSI HDs
3) Found a PCI ATTO SCSI card with 68pin 50pin connectors!

So the MBP2012 using a Digital Audio G4 can bridge back to imaging onto 50pin harddrives.

Lastly, I found I had download a user build of Snow Leopard in 2009. Little did I know it would have booted with some tinkering! I think I ntended to try, but never did... A good starting point back then would have been to use an Intel Mac to install the beta builds and then clone across to a PPC, however at that time after seeing that the gold master 10.6 definitely dropped PPC I think I quit whilst ahead and focused on Intel Mac mini hacks.

So, this thread is amazing and really awesome! 😃