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So did Apple give up on gaming?

Unregistered 4U said:
The developers are just looking out for their bottom line. Every dollar spent on a Mac game is a dollar that could have been spent on a PC/Console/Mobile title with a FAR more impressive return on that investment. The Mac hardware market would have to grow by a tremendous amount to really make it worth any game developer’s time.
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Think of the poor developers having to put effort into things! It’s up to Apple to stick to ancient apis to appease the poor oppressed gamers of the world!

This post and mentality reeks of entitlement. Typical mindset of a hamer.
 
JMacHack said:
Think of the poor developers having to put effort into things! It’s up to Apple to stick to ancient apis to appease the poor oppressed gamers of the world!

This post and mentality reeks of entitlement. Typical mindset of a hamer.
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You can call it whatever you want. They aren't coming, regardless.
 
Slartibart said:
What was it holding game developers back before then? Apple’s support of OpenGL? OpenCL? Using Intel processors?

The same developers who use Metal in the games they develop for iOS/iPadOS. For years.

Metal for Mac OS X was introduced 2015. Since WWDC19 Apple offered sessions on how to bring OpenGL apps to Metal - having announced the switch. Excluding “surprise” as a factor impacting game development, I assume.

But I get it. You want a certain type of gaming experience available on the Mac too. Wouldn’t that be great?

Look, there is no doubt that electric cars are more energy efficient than fossil-fuel ones. But if you like to explore e.g. the Australian outback by car now, you will find that it is quite a difficult endeavour. Do you seriously would blame e.g. Tesla for that?

Or equally blame Toyota that a Toyota Mirai can’t be charged on a Tesla Supercharger (to avoid any old vs new-impression but giving a new vs new-example ?). That would be silly, wouldn’t it?
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They’re literal children I swear. “I can’t have my toys so I’ll cry and whine at anyone until I get them!”
 
eltoslightfoot said:
You can call it whatever you want. They aren't coming, regardless.
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I’m not gonna lose sleep over it.

But the idea that Apple is somehow at fault for devs not putting effort into porting is moronic. Especially when their specific apis are on the most profitable and biggest gaming market in the world (mobile) and have been around for the better part of a decade.

If these manchildren had their way, Apple would just be another pc manufacturer, sticking with wintel and NVidia and never deviating from the norm for fear of losing games.
 
JMacHack said:
I’m not gonna lose sleep over it.

But the idea that Apple is somehow at fault for devs not putting effort into porting is moronic. Especially when their specific apis are on the most profitable and biggest gaming market in the world (mobile) and have been around for the better part of a decade.

If these manchildren had their way, Apple would just be another pc manufacturer, sticking with wintel and NVidia and never deviating from the norm for fear of losing games.
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No, agreed, it's ridiculous for someone to think that a company that brags about how well BG3 runs on the m1 platform should actually be able to run other titles. And having a discussion? How dare those people! ?
 
JMacHack said:
This post and mentality reeks of entitlement. Typical mindset of a hamer.
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Nothing wrong with liking ham. It’s a versatile and delicious meat product!

JMacHack said:
Think of the poor developers having to put effort into things! It’s up to Apple to stick to ancient apis to appease the poor oppressed gamers of the world!
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… What? It’s not up to Apple to stick to ancient api’s, it’s up to Apple to sell macs.
 
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JMacHack said:
But the idea that Apple is somehow at fault for devs not putting effort into porting is moronic.
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Apple’s only at fault for not having sold enough Macs to make it worth a developer’s effort to code for the Mac. The moment it becomes worth a developer’s time is the moment you see a developer start writing code for the Mac.
 
eltoslightfoot said:
Now find another game besides that one. :) I'll wait. Not really an "apples to apples" comparison. Find one where they didn't invite the Dev onto the stage. Besides a 2070 is dang old at this point. What about a 3080? That is what it supposedly compares to.
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Eh, they are using DX11 which is fine, but can leave some performance on the table compared to DX12. They also have a Vulkan renderer, but I doubt they are using VK_NV caps, which would also leave performance (and features) on the table.
Their Metal renderer seems specifically tailored to Apple Silicon (it runs like poo on Intel Macs).
 
JMacHack said:
I’m not gonna lose sleep over it.

But the idea that Apple is somehow at fault for devs not putting effort into porting is moronic. Especially when their specific apis are on the most profitable and biggest gaming market in the world (mobile) and have been around for the better part of a decade.

If these manchildren had their way, Apple would just be another pc manufacturer, sticking with wintel and NVidia and never deviating from the norm for fear of losing games.
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Trying to classify gamers as "manchildren" and "entitled" because Apple has not been very successful on the enthusiast market feels extremely cheap.

It's cheap because it fails to acknowledge that while videogames started as simple toys, gaming has evolved as a $150 to $170 billion industry (as of 2020): https://newzoo.com/insights/article...t-is-on-track-to-surpass-200-billion-in-2023/. We now have 40 year-old adults that grew up with gaming, and also made the industry grow up and become not only a form of entertainment, but also tell stories, and become intrincate works of art.

It's obvious that while Apple is taking efforts to increase their revenue on gaming, they're not doing the right things (otherwise, they would be thriving next to Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft). The latest iPad Pro can easily reach PS4-level graphics (and even the iPhone 13, really). The hardware's powerful at a native, so the problem is clearly not the hardware.

Apple's efforts are like preparing for a marathon with the goal of being a professional cook: it's a lot of effort, but it's never going to happen because it's not the right type of effort. Of course, I'm exaggerating a little bit to get my point across.

That has already been discussed here, but developers want a guarantee that their software will remain supported. Apple Silicon is already a niche, so porting costs extra; imagine if a developer finds out 2 years later Apple discontinued Metal to favor, say, their shiny "Topaz" gaming API. In the gaming world, Apple has the history of trying to push developers to adopt new technologies libraries, only to discontinue them later. It doesn't exactly make developers feel assured.

Not only that, but Apple is not collaborating to make sure games will work in other platforms. On the contrary: they are deliberately breaking compatibility because they are (or were) confident their machines are so powerful people will move from the legacy x86 / x64 platform to Apple Silicon. But it's not going to happen. I was expecting that Mac machines would be so blazingly fast with their extra cores that they'd be able to provide compatibility based on their sheer power, but so far, those 16-32 cores only seem to provide a significant speed boost on specific audio / video tasks (i.e, audio / video rendering and ecoding).
 
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Joe Dohn said:
Trying to classify gamers as "manchildren" and "entitled" because Apple has not been very successful on the enthusiast market feels extremely cheap.

It's cheap because it fails to acknowledge that while videogames started as simple toys, gaming has evolved as a $150 to $170 billion industry (as of 2020): https://newzoo.com/insights/article...t-is-on-track-to-surpass-200-billion-in-2023/. We now have 40 year-old adults that grew up with gaming, and also made the industry grow up and become not only a form of entertainment, but also tell stories, and become intrincate works of art.

It's obvious that while Apple is taking efforts to increase their revenue on gaming, they're not doing the right things (otherwise, they would be thriving next to Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft). The latest iPad Pro can easily reach PS4-level graphics (and even the iPhone 13, really). The hardware's powerful at a native, so the problem is clearly not the hardware.

Apple's efforts are like preparing for a marathon with the goal of being a professional cook: it's a lot of effort, but it's never going to happen because it's not the right type of effort. Of course, I'm exaggerating a little bit to get my point across.

That has already been discussed here, but developers want a guarantee that their software will remain supported. Apple Silicon is already a niche, so porting costs extra; imagine if a developer finds out 2 years later Apple discontinued Metal to favor, say, their shiny "Topaz" gaming API. In the gaming world, Apple has the history of trying to push developers to adopt new technologies libraries, only to discontinue them later. It doesn't exactly make developers feel assured.

Not only that, but Apple is not collaborating to make sure games will work in other platforms. On the contrary: they are deliberately breaking compatibility because they are (or were) confident their machines are so powerful people will move from the legacy x86 / x64 platform to Apple Silicon. But it's not going to happen. I was expecting that Mac machines would be so blazingly fast with their extra cores that they'd be able to provide compatibility based on their sheer power, but so far, those 16-32 cores only seem to provide a significant speed boost on specific audio / video tasks (i.e, audio / video rendering and ecoding).
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vir said:
They don't understand that art and creativity can extend into the interactive realm. They just see guys with their guns going boom boom boom and automatically think that is all there is to the artform. It is a very limited thinker that holds this viewpoint. Or a closeted ex-gamer that "quit" but hasn't fully come to terms with it (far more likely in this particular case).

I could blanketly make fun of all entertainment if I wanted to. Entertainment is just you sitting there like a vegetable, taking in sensory information because your brain is bored. Fictional books, movies, and TV shows are just fake stories that don't exist, and you're spending your brain cells in these fantasy lands that someone just made up. None of this is part of the real world. What a childish pursuit (sarcasm).
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mi7chy said:
Watching a movie is like gaming without the interactivity. For the anti-gamers do you also not watch movies?
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Unregistered 4U said:
Apple’s only at fault for not having sold enough Macs to make it worth a developer’s effort to code for the Mac. The moment it becomes worth a developer’s time is the moment you see a developer start writing code for the Mac.
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It looks like I’ve kicked the hornets nest. ?
 
JMacHack said:
It looks like I’ve kicked the hornets nest. ?
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Reminds me of great grandpas that say text terminals are better than graphics. I collect vintage computers from the 1970s and 1980s but don't even bother with text terminals without graphics since they're boring AF.
 
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Joe Dohn said:
That has already been discussed here, but developers want a guarantee that their software will remain supported.
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Developers want a guarantee that their software will sell. They’ll never have a guarantee that their software will remain supported from any OS vendor. Any developer that writes code today and expects that it’ll remain supported WITHOUT them doing routine updates is a developer with unreal expectations. :)
 
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Anyone who thinks that gaming isn't interactive, clearly hasn't seen teenage girls and "Life is Strange"....
 
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