So did Apple give up on gaming?

[Sophisticatednut]

Er, I’m fully aware of Steam statistics. That was my entire point with Boot Camp - those game players are Windows gamers in Steam statistics. Nobody knows how many they were/are. We just know that it’s an option that’s going away.
And of course there are people like me who have had a dedicated desktop gaming PC stashed under my desk at home. It’s not going anywhere, but if I had a reasonably capable MacOS machine that I liked, odds are I’d simply prefer to buy games on that platform rather than fire up the Windows box.
I’ve said it before, nobody can know what the Mac games market will be like in 3-5 years, but it is likely to be better than now in terms of selection. That would probably still constitute a development from "very limited" to "quite limited", but that may well suffice for those of us with limited time to spend on games anyway. It simply remains to be seen.

I hope Larian studios share sales data of Baldurs Gate 3 on different platforms a year after retail release. I’m willing to bet good money the Windows version won’t outsell the MacOS version 30:1.
That’s another aspect of the gaming landscape on the Mac - for those developers that do make a good effort on MacOS, there’s one hell of o lot less competition for attention and $$.

That’s us also easy to calculate.
Just look at the number of user that uses apples retina screen resolution (MacBook Pro).

Or just compare some information between 2020 ( before M1 launch) and compare to M1 shares. Or the number of windows 11 installs in a yea or so( no max supports windows 11).
All the data is available and could be compiled in a few hours. It’s extremely unlikely to be close to 10% just from the lack of GPU power in the majority of apple computers such as Mac mini, MacBook Air and MacBook etc with only intel GPUs

 

[UBS28]

I believe Blizzard is the biggest game developer for MAC and they have quit supporting MAC (even Intel MAC’s) for their latest games. It is now Windows only for the latest games.

Not sure if that is telling.

Apple hasn’t given up on gaming. They make alot of money with mobile games. The fact is, mobile games make more money than AAA games. So Apple sees no point trying to make AAA games, when it brings in less money than mobile games.

 

[l0stl0rd]

Easy Macs are not for gaming ?

Ok in all seriousness if they get Linux running with 3d acceleration you can game on them using Proton

 

[mi7chy]

Apple hasn’t given up on gaming.

True, Apple isn't giving up on Apple Arcade but they sure are making it difficult to venture outside of it by not supporting industry standard APIs like Vulkan, deprecating industry standard OpenCL API, new computers without bootcamp, etc. They want to control what you consume so Apple Arcade only.

 

[pshufd]

It's really up to the developers and not Apple.

I think that Apple can talk to developers and add features in Silicon that may be attractive to irresistible, or sponsor ports or even pay for ports. They could buy a gaming company or take a stake in one. It seems to me that it's more about partnerships as it's not under Apple's control but they can do things to make it more attractive.

 

[Pro Apple Silicon]

Give up? The gaming industry has never paid much attention to Mac. The Mac has been on Intel for 15 years with discrete graphics cards. There are no games.

The industry gave up on them, not the other way around.

Apple isn't about to make effort to win back the industry when it ignored them for no reason for 15 years.

You want to game? Get a PC. Not a big deal. I have a gaming PC, and several Macs. It's all fine.

 

[dugbug]

There’s also the issue of not putting an HDMI 2.1 port on there. So much for gaming on a 4K TV above 60Hz with VRR.

whats to stop them from using the USB-C port? It supports HDMI 2.1 and there are ample dongles.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I'm not sure what strategy you're talking about or what you mean by failure. Apple Arcade seems mostly aimed at iOS as thats where the biggest market is (but it also works on some Macs, though there have been bugs). I would guess Apple makes more from just gaming on iOS than Steam does annually.

Let's look at the numbers: Steam gets about $4 billion in revenue (2017). Apple pulled in $15 billion from the iOS app store (2019), with 70% of that coming from games, or $10 billion. So gaming on iOS is over twice the size of Steam by revenue, and probably by profit too. I'd love to fail like that.

It's hard to tell how much Apple Arcade pulls in, but wikipedia says it's available in 150 countries, and is predicted to grow to around 10% of iOS users and bring in $5 billion revenue by 2024. That's just a prediction, but even if Apple Arcade fails that target by 50% (which I think is pretty likely) that's around half the size of Steam, and a major global player in gaming. Again, I'd love to fail like that.

What I mean by fail Is it will Still be dead on the Mac. no user have anny good reason to buy on the store as it will always be more expensive. Almost zero developers will want to use apple Arcade compared to selling it on steam or GoG. the Mac store is simply extremly bad as it's outcompeted.

if we compare steam

1. close to zero limits on what game you can make. porn? go for it. violence galore? yep. use any custom or standard APIs? absolutly
2. it supports competing subscription services, such as Ea play or elder scrolls online
3. modding is built in
4. WIndows, Linux and Mac games are listed seamlessly granting you a 100% market coverage.
5. you can sell in game items, keys aesthetics etc to other steam users
6. Developers can contact you or sell their game Keys or DLC keys anywhere and still register them in steam keeping 100% of the revenue.
7. regularly have Steam sales of 40-70% on high end games.

Now compare this to apple app store...

1. hard guidlines to what you can sell.
2. only allowed to use specific APIs, custom or priviliged APIs will reject your game.
3. No compeating subscription service allowed suc has EA play like services.
4. exist only on Mac
5. No sales.
6. you can only buy tings on the MAc app store. anywhere else wont be registered on the Mac store.
7. No modding

Steam have 1 billion accounts in 2019 and over 120 million monthly active users in 2021.
on this the have made at least 4 billion in revenue. and apple made 10 billion... with 1 billion active iphone/ipad users.
Now that is 10x more users but only twice the revenue( probably even less as steam have no new numbers for 2020/2021)
And steam is likely many times more profitable as they don't have any real costs to deal with outside their once in a while game and limited hardware..


If a developer develops for iOS it make sence, but anything ment to work on the mac will not use apples ecosystem.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

whats to stop them from using the USB-C port? It supports HDMI 2.1 and there are ample dongles.

USB 4 only support HDMI 1.4

 

[cardfan]

What I mean by fail Is it will Still be dead on the Mac. no user have anny good reason to buy on the store as it will always be more expensive. Almost zero developers will want to use apple Arcade compared to selling it on steam or GoG. the Mac store is simply extremly bad as it's outcompeted.

if we compare steam

1. close to zero limits on what game you can make. porn? go for it. violence galore? yep. use any custom or standard APIs? absolutly
2. it supports competing subscription services, such as Ea play or elder scrolls online
3. modding is built in
4. WIndows, Linux and Mac games are listed seamlessly granting you a 100% market coverage.
5. you can sell in game items, keys aesthetics etc to other steam users
6. Developers can contact you or sell their game Keys or DLC keys anywhere and still register them in steam keeping 100% of the revenue.
7. regularly have Steam sales of 40-70% on high end games.

Now compare this to apple app store...

1. hard guidlines to what you can sell.
2. only allowed to use specific APIs, custom or priviliged APIs will reject your game.
3. No compeating subscription service allowed suc has EA play like services.
4. exist only on Mac
5. No sales.
6. you can only buy tings on the MAc app store. anywhere else wont be registered on the Mac store.
7. No modding

Steam have 1 billion accounts in 2019 and over 120 million monthly active users in 2021.
on this the have made at least 4 billion in revenue. and apple made 10 billion... with 1 billion active iphone/ipad users.
Now that is 10x more users but only twice the revenue( probably even less as steam have no new numbers for 2020/2021)
And steam is likely many times more profitable as they don't have any real costs to deal with outside their once in a while game and limited hardware..


If a developer develops for iOS it make sence, but anything ment to work on the mac will not use apples ecosystem.

That only makes sense. What sane dev would want to submit apps to apple outside of iOS? iOS is already a nightmare dealing with the overlord who can kick your app out for little reason.

At the same time what’s apple’s incentive for going after any slice of AAA games on mac? Mac store isn’t locked down.

Still I’d look at costs of doing this as marketing. If you want to sell more macs you need to appeal to users and show whats there to play or have fun with.

You just released a notebook with specs that match or best the best gaming laptops. These kind of laptops sound like airplanes and weigh 6lb with basically nonexistent battery life. The new MacBooks promise to stay quiet, low temp, and have unheard of battery life for a laptop with these specs.

Obviously these need to be seen and reviewed. But I can already play wow on a MacBook Air and quiet as a mouse. On Alienware laptop it’s seeking clearance to take off. If I unplug my Alienware I got an hour to find an outlet.

 

[EntropyQ3]

What I mean by fail Is it will Still be dead on the Mac. no user have anny good reason to buy on the store as it will always be more expensive. Almost zero developers will want to use apple Arcade compared to selling it on steam or GoG. the Mac store is simply extremly bad as it's outcompeted.

if we compare steam

1. close to zero limits on what game you can make. porn? go for it. violence galore? yep. use any custom or standard APIs? absolutly
2. it supports competing subscription services, such as Ea play or elder scrolls online
3. modding is built in
4. WIndows, Linux and Mac games are listed seamlessly granting you a 100% market coverage.
5. you can sell in game items, keys aesthetics etc to other steam users
6. Developers can contact you or sell their game Keys or DLC keys anywhere and still register them in steam keeping 100% of the revenue.
7. regularly have Steam sales of 40-70% on high end games.

Now compare this to apple app store...

1. hard guidlines to what you can sell.
2. only allowed to use specific APIs, custom or priviliged APIs will reject your game.
3. No compeating subscription service allowed suc has EA play like services.
4. exist only on Mac
5. No sales.
6. you can only buy tings on the MAc app store. anywhere else wont be registered on the Mac store.
7. No modding

Steam have 1 billion accounts in 2019 and over 120 million monthly active users in 2021.
on this the have made at least 4 billion in revenue. and apple made 10 billion... with 1 billion active iphone/ipad users.
Now that is 10x more users but only twice the revenue( probably even less as steam have no new numbers for 2020/2021)
And steam is likely many times more profitable as they don't have any real costs to deal with outside their once in a while game and limited hardware..


If a developer develops for iOS it make sence, but anything ment to work on the mac will not use apples ecosystem.

This is ... really strange. Why are you setting Steam and the App Store against each other?
Publishers can sell their products however they want under MacOS.

 

[dugbug]

USB 4 only support HDMI 1.4

Here is one.

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 15 - Maximum Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 15 - Maximum Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

www.amazon.com

Question: Will this deliver 4k 120hz with the new mac m1 pro or m1 max wich have usb4/thunderbolt 4? Answer: Yes sir

 

[mi7chy]

Here is one.

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 15 - Maximum Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 15 - Maximum Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

www.amazon.com

Question: Will this deliver 4k 120hz with the new mac m1 pro or m1 max wich have usb4/thunderbolt 4? Answer: Yes sir

That question is unanswered. On M1 devices the seller's answer is 4k60. I have that exact dongle and on MBA M1 it flip flops between 4K30 and 4k60 while on Legion Slim 7 it's consistent 4k120.

 

[diamond.g]

This is ... really strange. Why are you setting Steam and the App Store against each other?
Publishers can sell their products however they want under MacOS.

I think it was in reference to Apple Arcade or at least that was my take away.

 

[JahBoolean]

Because I work on a mac, I can afford to buy a nice PC and play my games on it.

Would not have it any other way.

PS: I truly dislike the word gaming, it is an association with the basest "gamified, behavioural modification" facet of what used and still is an artform like any other.

 

[JahBoolean]

I’m confused by this so-called “business+gaming” market. I see computers being advertised as business machines and computers being advertised as gaming machines. Those are generally separate product lines.

You started out talking about “real gaming”, then very quickly flipped to talked about enterprises. The IT departments who control enterprise purchasing don’t give a flip about gaming. Most of them don’t want users to install games or other unapproved software on enterprise machines.

In other words, huh???

Marketing for gen Z and millenials who need a reason to rationnalize their impulsive purchase as something that could be used to make up for it producing new media.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Because I work on a mac, I can afford to buy a nice PC and play my games on it.

Would not have it any other way.

PS: I truly dislike the word gaming, it is an association with the basest "gamified, behavioural modification" facet of what used and still is an artform like any other.

Because I want fewer devices, and I can work either on a mac or a gaming PC, and I want to game, I choose Windows Desktop. It can do anything I need it to do (AMD 5900X and 3060Ti). And I don't need to have a Mac just sit there. Been there, done that.

Pair it with a Surface Pro for mobile inking and on-the-go computing. Cheaper and all Windows. Go me.

 

[onlinespending]

whats to stop them from using the USB-C port? It supports HDMI 2.1 and there are ample dongles.

Unfortunately if you follow threads dedicated to the subject, MacOS doesn’t play nice with USB-C to HDMI 2.1

 

[edfoo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mac and gaming are mutually exclusive

 

[JahBoolean]

Because I want fewer devices, and I can work either on a mac or a gaming PC, and I want to game, I choose Windows Desktop. It can do anything I need it to do (AMD 5900X and 3060Ti). And I don't need to have a Mac just sit there. Been there, done that.

Pair it with a Surface Pro for mobile inking and on-the-go computing. Cheaper and all Windows. Go me.

Different strokes and different people, kudos to you for creating a workflow that suits your needs. Also a big fan of remoting in a dedicated "beast".

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Here is one.

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 15 - Maximum Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 15 - Maximum Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

www.amazon.com

Question: Will this deliver 4k 120hz with the new mac m1 pro or m1 max wich have usb4/thunderbolt 4? Answer: Yes sir

it quite literally say they use DP1.4 with DSC. you can read anywhere. the cable is physicaly incapablet to transfer HDMI 2.1 signal.

what it actually does is transports a DSC DP 1.4 signal not HDMI 2.1
it will only work with ether HDMI 1.4 ports without DSC or HDMI 2.1 with DSC

 

[JahBoolean]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mac and gaming are mutually exclusive

I played my first game (sim city 4) on my mom's G4 =).

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Marketing for gen Z and millenials who need a reason to rationnalize their impulsive purchase as something that could be used to make up for it producing new media.

becasu alot of people would rather have 1 computer that can do everythign such as Gaming and workign than two powerful computers for difrent tasks.

 

[onlinespending]

it quite literally say they use DP1.4 with DSC. you can read anywhere. the cable is physicaly incapablet to transfer HDMI 2.1 signal. View attachment 1872768
what it actually does is transports a DSC DP 1.4 signal not HDMI 2.1
it will only work with ether HDMI 1.4 ports without DSC or HDMI 2.1 with DSC View attachment 1872778

It should be noted that this adapter works just fine to deliver 4K@120Hz with full YCbCr 4:4:4 10-bit color with a Windows PC. Hell, it even works using an Intel MacBook Pro running Windows. Sadly Apple has decided to cripple external monitor support in MacOS

 

[JahBoolean]

becasu alot of people would rather have 1 computer that can do everythign such as Gaming and workign than two powerful computers for difrent tasks.

Jack of all trades ...

Bit I wholeheartedly agree that apple makes the option of unifying all your needs into one device excruciatingly expensive.