So essentially, with the new larger screens, we end up copying competitors.

[Savor]

You have to applaud Apple for building a powerful phone in such a small footprint.

Reality is if you look around, you won't see phones with 1080p screens, 2 GB of RAM, etc at under 4.7 inch screens. Sony was able to do it with the Z1 Compact but trends have shifted to larger phones with bigger batteries.

I'm actually looking forward to the iPhone 6. It will pretty much have specs from last year like Full HD screens and 2 GB of RAM with the 4.8 inch version. I don't expect 4 GB of RAM to utilize that 64-bit architecture until iPhone 7 in 2016 while Android will move up to 4 GB by next year.

Apple procrastinated for too long. They stuck to 3.5 inches for five years and 4 inches with only 1 GB of RAM and dual core CPU for another two years.

If you look at them, they have always been behind the curve. Copy & paste until iOS3. Ability to change the homescreen wallpaper until iOS4. Notification center until iOS5. Toggle switches until iOS7. Full HD screen until a year later.

The only thing Apple has always been ahead of is smoothness because iOS is so limited with multi-tasking, external design, and an ecosystem people love to be stuck with. Android caught up to iOS by 2012 and Apple's own restrictive and stubborn nature to change will always keep them behind the competition. All I saw Apple tout was a 64-bit processor and fingerprint scanner while HTC and Samsung had WiFi ac, IR blaster to control your TV, OTG, but didnt tout them as much. Apple markets ONE really good thing every year like FaceTime, Siri, fingerprint scanner, and runs to bank with it.

 

[jamezr]

Some may see this as arguing semantics but I would say that in Apple's case it's more giving the public what it wants than 'copying'.

If Apple was copying then it would have knee-jerk rushed out a bigger phone as soon as the bigger phones hit the market. Instead it's been what, a good two, three years, and they went with the iPhone 5 over going even bigger like they could have? They're doing it because the market is saying that this is what they want.

I think people miss out on the difference between the decisions that Apple makes vs some of the other companies - if you look at the complete shift in phone design after 2007, there's no doubt that companies threw their existing designs out the window and went after the look that Apple had coined. That's outright copying . I worked at AT&T at the time and people like to deny it now, but there was a massive change in the tide that the iPhone started. Consumers at that point were more interested in a silver or gold Razr than in getting one of those 'business Blackberries'. I'm not going to argue that touchscreens didn't exist, but I am going to argue that Apple created the smooth, sleek consumer smartphone look that people went nuts for and all the other companies started replicating.

A lot of the decisions that Apple makes are much slower to come about and are, imo, much more driven by the company deciding 'okay, this is what is going to sell' than just pure copycat.

Didn't Apple say the 3.5 inch iPhone 4 was the perfect size? Then to go on and release a larger IP5 but only made it longer? They really didn't commit to a larger phone….they said they made the IP5 longer so you could still use it with one hand. Now if they come out with anything larger…..they will be copying the market trend dominated by Android phones.
Didn't Apple also say the would never make a smaller tablet……then along came the mini. They copied the market trend of smaller tablets dominated by Android tablets. Biometrics existed long before Apple put them in the IP5s. It worked quite well too…..

----------

You have to applaud Apple for building a powerful phone in such a small footprint.

Reality is if you look around, you won't see phones with 1080p screens, 2 GB of RAM, etc at under 4.7 inch screens. Sony was able to do it with the Z1 Compact but trends have shifted to larger phones with bigger batteries.

I'm actually looking forward to the iPhone 6. It will pretty much have specs from last year like Full HD screens and 2 GB of RAM with the 4.8 inch version. I don't expect 4 GB of RAM to utilize that 64-bit architecture until iPhone 7 in 2016 while Android will move up to 4 GB by next year.

Apple procrastinated for too long. They stuck to 3.5 inches for five years and 4 inches with only 1 GB of RAM and dual core CPU for another two years.

If you look at them, they have always been behind the curve. Copy & paste until iOS3. Ability to change the homescreen wallpaper until iOS4. Notification center until iOS5. Toggle switches until iOS7. Full HD screen until a year later.

The only thing Apple has always been ahead of is smoothness because iOS is so limited with multi-tasking, external design, and an ecosystem people love to be stuck with. Android caught up to iOS by 2012 and Apple's own restrictive and stubborn nature to change will always keep them behind the competition. All I saw Apple tout was a 64-bit processor and fingerprint scanner while HTC and Samsung had WiFi ac, IR blaster to control your TV, OTG, but didnt tout them as much. Apple markets ONE really good thing every year like FaceTime, Siri, fingerprint scanner, and runs to bank with it.

You nailed it! I was just going to write this when i saw your post. I completely agree.

 

[MRU]

Didn't Apple say the 3.5 inch iPhone 4 was the perfect size?

The get out clause to that is already there in your sentence .... 'was' (past tense)

No doubt some other size will be the new perfect size. Most likely on the more expensive bigger model which is be marketed as more perfect than the other

 

[jamezr]

The get out clause to that is already there in your sentence .... 'was' (past tense)

No doubt some other size will be the new perfect size. Most likely on the more expensive bigger model which is be marketed as more perfect than the other

It will be interesting to see if they release a 5 to 6 inch phone. Then have software like the Note 3 to enable one handed use.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I have to say I couldn't care less if Apple were copying others with features etc. I don't know why people have to pick a brand and play it off against another in a form of competition. Larger screens on phones are not exclusive to any brand and as far as I know sizes do not carry patents. I'm not a fan of large screens on phones myself, however I do buy what I like and don't generally care whether my iPhone appears cool or inferior to anyone else. In my industry the iPhone is a popular phone and I haven't seen any decline in this area. It obviously does the job and I have no complaints. I would buy another without question.

 

[vomhorizon]

Then have software like the Note 3 to enable one handed use.

I think the software on the GN3 can easily be bettered and simplfied, both for multi window, and for one handed use. Apple is way better at softwar than samsung anyhow.

 

[thehustleman]

Image

First iOS7 copied the feel of Android in certain ways.

Now iPhone is copying the jumbo screen feel and it kind of comes back full circle, essentially signyfying that the competition was where we were going to be years ahead of us. I mean look at that phone on the right; it just feels like and looks like it is turning into what the competition has had for so long now.

Looking back in hindsight, when do you guys think Apple should have made the push and came out with a larger screen? Around iPhone 4 era?

I can't help feeling like its admitting we should have done it before.

Apple could have done a lot first but they'd gotten complacent, stopped innovating and started imitating android among other OS's.

Their fans mostly never admit it but its hard to keep up with a competitor like Android when they are CONSTANTLY advancing cell phone features, offering consumers choices of what they want , not what you want them to have, offering them larger screens, more features, plus there's a new one out every month or so further pushing technology forward.

Meanwhile apple releases once a year.

 

[vomhorizon]

Didn't Apple say the 3.5 inch iPhone 4 was the perfect size? Then to go on and release a larger IP5 but only made it longer? T

You do realize that its the "job" of the folks making the device to claim it is the best size? Android OEM"s have been equally wrong about sizes if your rationale is to be used..The S3 was a totally wrong size ? What about the S4? So the S5 @ 5.2" becomes the current "best" size...Apple said that according to them 3.5 was the best size for one handed use..After having used the 4 , 4s and 5/5s i can say that apple was correct in that parameter. 3.5 is much better at a lot of one handed operations than a 4" device. Not to say that the 4 inch device is hard to use..If the software enables the user to not "compromise" as much with single handed use then even a 5" device is not going to be much of a problem. Its all a mix-of-compromises and what set of "compromises" the consumers take a fancy too.

 

[Technarchy]

Who here has seen the iphone 6 and know the screen size?

No one...?

 

[nooaah]

Didn't Apple say the 3.5 inch iPhone 4 was the perfect size? Then to go on and release a larger IP5 but only made it longer?

At the time of 3.5", it was the perfect size for the phone. If you consider the weight and thickness, if they went above 3.5" (AT THAT TIME) it may have affected the ergonomics of the phone in a way that a larger screen wouldn't now. This is back in the time of thicker plastic to heavier glass. It would've been easy just to throw in a large screen at any point but their designers put a premium on "feel" over the size of the screen.

For people to even imply that a 5" screen on a phone is innovative is just silly. It's how you incorporate that size without sacrificing comfort for your entire demographic. If they end up moving to 4.5" or 4.8" with the next refresh, I doubt you'll hear a ton of debate over whether the phone can be operated with one hand. If they bump the screen up, it's only because they found a way to not compromise that aspect.

 

[Shanghaichica]

At the time of 3.5", it was the perfect size for the phone. If you consider the weight and thickness, if they went above 3.5" (AT THAT TIME) it may have affected the ergonomics of the phone in a way that a larger screen wouldn't now. This is back in the time of thicker plastic to heavier glass. It would've been easy just to throw in a large screen at any point but their designers put a premium on "feel" over the size of the screen.

For people to even imply that a 5" screen on a phone is innovative is just silly. It's how you incorporate that size without sacrificing comfort for your entire demographic. If they end up moving to 4.5" or 4.8" with the next refresh, I doubt you'll hear a ton of debate over whether the phone can be operated with one hand. If they bump the screen up, it's only because they found a way to not compromise that aspect.

5 inches on a phone will be innovative when Apple release an iPhone with a 5 inch screen. We already have people in here trying to claim that Apple were the pioneers of larger screened phones.

----------

You do realize that its the "job" of the folks making the device to claim it is the best size? Android OEM"s have been equally wrong about sizes if your rationale is to be used..The S3 was a totally wrong size ? What about the S4? So the S5 @ 5.2" becomes the current "best" size...Apple said that according to them 3.5 was the best size for one handed use..After having used the 4 , 4s and 5/5s i can say that apple was correct in that parameter. 3.5 is much better at a lot of one handed operations than a 4" device. Not to say that the 4 inch device is hard to use..If the software enables the user to not "compromise" as much with single handed use then even a 5" device is not going to be much of a problem. Its all a mix-of-compromises and what set of "compromises" the consumers take a fancy too.

No be because Samsung and other android manufacture had other devices out at the same time which had a range of screen sizes so they were never claiming that one screen size was the perfect size.

 

[vomhorizon]

5 inches on a phone will be innovative when Apple release an iPhone with a 5 inch screen.

Perhaps to trolls. Upping the phone from 4" to 4.5 or 5" is not innovation under any scenario (whether apple does, samsung does, or nokia does it)..If they end up changing ios8 signficantly and do something with it that is not done by other software folks that may qualify as innovating with software to make UX better on a larger device.

No be because Samsung and other android manufacture had other devices out at the same time which had a range of screen sizes so they were never claiming that one screen size was the perfect size.

Galaxy S4 was not a successor to the Galaxy S3 then? And the galaxy S5 is not a successor to the Galaxy S4? (All three of these devices will have different screen sizes)...The Note family (Note, Note2 and Note3) has also had different screen sizes with each generation. Are these not natural progression of the family or are they seperate categories from one another.

 

[jamezr]

At the time of 3.5", it was the perfect size for the phone. If you consider the weight and thickness, if they went above 3.5" (AT THAT TIME) it may have affected the ergonomics of the phone in a way that a larger screen wouldn't now. This is back in the time of thicker plastic to heavier glass. It would've been easy just to throw in a large screen at any point but their designers put a premium on "feel" over the size of the screen.

For people to even imply that a 5" screen on a phone is innovative is just silly. It's how you incorporate that size without sacrificing comfort for your entire demographic. If they end up moving to 4.5" or 4.8" with the next refresh, I doubt you'll hear a ton of debate over whether the phone can be operated with one hand. If they bump the screen up, it's only because they found a way to not compromise that aspect.

I don't see where anyone said that. I surely did not......
Apple contradicts itself all the time...they putdown other devices until they release the same thing then tout it as the best. They backtracked on the 3.5 is the best size for a phone. Then said the 4 inch IP5 was the best because it was narrow enough to still hold with one hand. So when and if they release a larger iphone....that does not fit that narrative what will the reason then? If you say the market changed...meaning people want a larger phone. So then don't say the 3.5 is perfect and anything else it too big....only to release the same product.

 

[vomhorizon]

So when and if they release a larger iphone....that does not fit that narrative what will the reason then?

Tim Cook has said that as long as "compromises" exist they would not make larger phones. As compromises become less relevant or are mitigated through technology they will entertain the idea. Rest assured, bigger iPhones have been in the works for some time. We can only guess what the design constraints and those compromises are but they should include getting the perfect screen/display to match the overall IOS expereince (LCD @ 500+PPI to give a 3x or 4x boost), overall size of the phone given extra power for the increased display (IGZO may help here)..Software to enhance portability and easy one-handed operation. Others may well exist, but these are some that i think are relevant.

 

[jamezr]

Tim Cook has said that as long as "compromises" exist they would not make larger phones. As compromises become less relevant or are mitigated through technology they will entertain the idea. Rest assured, bigger iPhones have been in the works for some time. We can only guess what the design constraints and those compromises are but they should include getting the perfect screen/display to match the overall IOS expereince (LCD @ 500+PPI to give a 3x or 4x boost), overall size of the phone given extra power for the increased display (IGZO may help here)..Software to enhance portability and easy one-handed operation. Others may well exist, but these are some that i think are relevant.

So all the other larger screen phones are compromised? The HTC One has a great display. The specs on the S5 seemed to have better dpi......
You would think after what 4 to 5 years...Apple would be able to technically design and release a larger screen phone. I think they have the talent to do that......they just don't what to interrupt their release schedule.

 

[rdowty]

I think they need to allow people to have the choice. My opinion is some of Androids popularity is due the larger screen sizes. Some prefer a larger screen.

I hope no-one would think one-handed use to be the most important factor in determining a phone's ideal screen size.

If I was female and carried my phone in a purse I would probably want a larger screen.

 

[Oohara]

So all the other larger screen phones are compromised? The HTC One has a great display. The specs on the S5 seemed to have better dpi......
You would think after what 4 to 5 years...Apple would be able to technically design and release a larger screen phone. I think they have the talent to do that......they just don't what to interrupt their release schedule.

I'm sure they could have released a large screen phone long ago if they had wanted to, one that would have met their own quality critieria just fine in terms of both hardware and software. But it must be significantly more profitable to continue producing the same size for as long as possible, as long as they can make it sell.

I think Apple are masters at doing what's necessary but no more. They add just enough on the tech side of things to keep people happy, and then they let their brand culture/ecosystem design do the rest.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Perhaps to trolls. Upping the phone from 4" to 4.5 or 5" is not innovation under any scenario (whether apple does, samsung does, or nokia does it)..If they end up changing ios8 signficantly and do something with it that is not done by other software folks that may qualify as innovating with software to make UX better on a larger device.



Galaxy S4 was not a successor to the Galaxy S3 then? And the galaxy S5 is not a successor to the Galaxy S4? (All three of these devices will have different screen sizes)...The Note family (Note, Note2 and Note3) has also had different screen sizes with each generation. Are these not natural progression of the family or are they seperate categories from one another.

I was referring to the gazillion and one Galaxy devices that Samsung make. As their strategy is to flood the market with every possible size, price point, feature set etc there is no perfect size.

 

[vomhorizon]

So all the other larger screen phones are compromised?

Larger screens android phones are not the iPhone. IOS has issues with scaling which do not exist on android, and there are plenty of articles scattered around the web that point to this being why apps feel much better looking on IOS..A 4x of a 4inch retina screen would require a 522 ppi 5 inch LCD on the iPhone6 running ios...Whats the size and ppi count of the HTC one's LCD? Apple does not want to get into AMOLED as Samsung and others have done ( its their decision based on other parameters in displays)..So yes this is one compromise that needs to be mitigated for apple. It may not exist for other OEM's.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/04/easier-design-apps-ios/

Thx to trecb..

A Programmer Explains Why Android Apps Are Ugly - see section titled "Dealing with screens of every possible size"

Why Are Android Apps Ugly? - see section titled “Writing for multiple phones”

Why do apps from the same company look worse on Android than on iPhone?

Why is the general UI in most android apps ugly?

https://developer.apple.com/library/...007072-CH6-SW1 - see section on App Icons and Launch Images

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliasing

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18771500/

The specs on the S5 seemed to have better dpi......

S5 is rumoured to have an AMOLED display and not an LCD. Nexus 5 and HTC one have LCD iirc...The best LCD display around 5 inches in the "research" world is the sharp IGZO LCD's which was shown off in late 2012 and which has around 498 Ppi. I am yet to see this on a mass produced device, although sharp may have them on a "japan-specific" device but definitly there is no LCD that is 500+ ppi (Like the one which would be required for a 4x bump on a 5 inch device)..

You would think after what 4 to 5 years...Apple would be able to technically design and release a larger screen phone.

They could have done it years ago, but clearly they did the trade off internally and found that the best way forward was a 4 inch device. And look how handsomly this has worked for them with the 5/5s/5c family and its sales.

I think they have the talent to do that......they just don't what to interrupt their release schedule.

They are doing it..and have been working on it for some time (according to rumours)..Apple takes time with most things. Display tech is not something that advances as rapidly as say SOC tech..

 

[nooaah]

I don't see where anyone said that. I surely did not......
Apple contradicts itself all the time...they putdown other devices until they release the same thing then tout it as the best. They backtracked on the 3.5 is the best size for a phone. Then said the 4 inch IP5 was the best because it was narrow enough to still hold with one hand. So when and if they release a larger iphone....that does not fit that narrative what will the reason then? If you say the market changed...meaning people want a larger phone. So then don't say the 3.5 is perfect and anything else it too big....only to release the same product.

The "innovation" part is implied in the title of the thread. And you're just saying the same thing I replied to without really any acknowledgment of my point being that Apple favors function over form when it comes to screen size.

 

[jamezr]

The "innovation" part is implied in the title of the thread. And you're just saying the same thing I replied to without really any acknowledgment of my point being that Apple favors function over form when it comes to screen size.

Alright...so please explain the function over form for the current iPhone screen size.

 

[nooaah]

Alright...so please explain the function over form for the current iPhone screen size.

Thinner body = thumb can reach farther

It's not like I'm justifying their choice in screen size, I'm just explaining why they choose the phone's dimensions. Again, if they felt a larger, similar quality LCD screen and body would work for the most people as far as weight and reach were concerned, we'd have seen a larger screen already.

 

[C DM]

Apple doing 64-bit first isn't setting a trend, it's just doing something first for whatever reason they chose to do so. I don't think Apple going to 64-bit right now has much of an impact on Google's plans with Android.. I'd be surprised if they have changed there existing plans because of Apple going to 64-bit.

Anyways, this discussion has nothing to do with security...It is about Apple potentially releasing a larger screen following it's competitors. Personally, I think they made a pretty big mistake ignoring there customers and waiting this long to do so.

Apple is definitely not setting any trends (that others will follow), and is actually far behind and isn't even catching up: https://www.macrumors.com/2014/02/24/samsung-galaxy-s5/

As for screen size, I agree, there should be some more options, but none of that is innovation or anything like that, it's simply screen size and personal preferences.

 

[rtomyj]

Apple could have done a lot first but they'd gotten complacent, stopped innovating and started imitating android among other OS's.

Their fans mostly never admit it but its hard to keep up with a competitor like Android when they are CONSTANTLY advancing cell phone features, offering consumers choices of what they want , not what you want them to have, offering them larger screens, more features, plus there's a new one out every month or so further pushing technology forward.

Meanwhile apple releases once a year.

"Imitating", interesting. So you can't distinguish between Android and iOS 7? I'm sorry but if you haven't done any software design your point is moot. There are always going to be similarities between Android and iOS. iOS 7 does not look exactly like Android and vice versa. If you really want to see how advanced Android is, look at the change log between 4.4 and 4.3. Very advanced indeed. Finally, look at jailbreak tweaks and you'll see where Apple gets most of their ideas from (that's where Androids NC got its roots). Is it bad? Not really. Apple almost always makes something good, better. Copy and paste in iOS 3? It's ok, still 100% better than Androids. Heck the notification center is head and shoulders better than my Tablets. (Of course that is subjective)

 

[thehustleman]

"Imitating", interesting. So you can't distinguish between Android and iOS 7? I'm sorry but if you haven't done any software design your point is moot. There are always going to be similarities between Android and iOS. iOS 7 does not look exactly like Android and vice versa. If you really want to see how advanced Android is, look at the change log between 4.4 and 4.3. Very advanced indeed. Finally, look at jailbreak tweaks and you'll see where Apple gets most of their ideas from (that's where Androids NC got its roots). Is it bad? Not really. Apple almost always makes something good, better. Copy and paste in iOS 3? It's ok, still 100% better than Androids. Heck the notification center is head and shoulders better than my Tablets. (Of course that is subjective)

Better?

They can't even do multitasking better.

They can't even work a file system better

They don't even make the best screens

Android has done quite a few things better