So, no Mini

[masterbaron]

"A "computer" is back end infrastructure the same as plumbing"

Ok - make sure it connects to everything - make sure it can handle the volume (water / work) today and many tomorrows - make sure its reliable (like a toilet bowl) and works when there's no power - make sure it doesn't care which solids or fluids i throw at it as long as it can go down the pipe - make sure it only requires basic tools to fix (the same tools year after year) - make sure the output has the same value year after year - and let's not forget the water bill is one of the cheapest utilities other than ADT!

If that was the case I would not be anywhere near this forum.

 

[toke lahti]

Do you guys think lots of pros will buy iMacPro?
If you pay 5k for aio, you don't want to choose the size and other aspects of your screens?

 

[Miat]

If I was a pro I wouldn't touch an AIO (if I had any choice).

The combination of a restricted thermal envelope, the inability to upgrade the screen independent from the rest of the comp, plus difficulty and cost of service and repairs (including regular de-dusting of the internals), all adds up to poor value.

Just to rub salt into that wound, the more expensive an AIO is, the worse value it is, IMHO.

There are good reasons that AIOs have never dominated the desktop market, and never will. They are a cute package, but not a good deal.

 

[Cape Dave]

If I was a pro I wouldn't touch an AIO (if I had any choice).

The combination of a restricted thermal envelope, the inability to upgrade the screen independent from the rest of the comp, plus difficulty and cost of service and repairs (including regular de-dusting of the internals), all adds up to poor value.

Just to rub salt into that wound, the more expensive an AIO is, the worse value it is, IMHO.

There are good reasons that AIOs have never dominated the desktop market, and never will. They are a cute package, but not a good deal.

So true. Very well said.

 

[DevNull0]

After configuring it with some basic components it is in the same price range as the high end mini. Makes it look like there is no Apple tax.

It's available with a Kaby i7 quad core, and it's still cheaper than a base high end mini with all the basic components.

On the other hand, 16 gig of ram and a 1 TB SSD is a heck of a lot cheaper than Apple's upgrade ripoffs.

 

[Count Blah]

Do you guys think lots of pros will buy iMacPro?
If you pay 5k for aio, you don't want to choose the size and other aspects of your screens?

No. Why would they get an AIO? No one wants to pay above top dollar, to then throw away perfectly good equipment when one part begins to lag behind? It's a major aspect of why the cheese grader Mac Pro was so good, and the trash can Mac Pro is so horribly bad.

 

[Fishrrman]

I've posted this before, but I expect to see the price of the "iMac Pro" cut somewhat either just before it reaches the market, or just after.

Otherwise, a pile of 'em may accumulate in Apple's warehouses!

 

[mcnallym]

Do you guys think lots of pros will buy iMacPro?
If you pay 5k for aio, you don't want to choose the size and other aspects of your screens?

For Pro Users that also do there own maintenance, support and purchasing NO. The iMac Pro is not there computer.

For Pro Users that simply have the equipment provided to them and when it doesn't do the job anymore gets replaced then YES, expect it will be hoovered up. These Pro Users simply won't care about those factors that people on here keep bringing up as to why people won't buy them. They simply get on with the job in hand. If there is an issue with the machine then they report it to there IT support who fix/replace for them so that they can keep working. These people simply are not concerned about it lasting 5 years+, being able to swap the GPU out etc. They won't care what is inside, it will simply be does it do what I need, YES/NO. They will have Fast Shared Storage for collaborating with other people as part of a team, so don't need 20TB of Local Storage. Figure plucked from mid air! 27" seems to be the compromise between having a screen physically in front of you and desk space and real estate as in how much can show on screen. You aren't going to please everyone, but likely 27" will please the majority.

You only have to look at the people on here saying where is the 14" Macbook, or the 24" iMac. Where is the 30" At one point a popular monitor was a Philips 43" Monitor. Not really sure how many people actually want a 43" Monitor though, certainly not going to be Mainstream choices even for Pro's. There's a chunk of people on here that find the 27" too large,

Most (not all) of the people on this forum banging on about the limitations of the iMac Pro here will be part of that first group.

Those people will not be the Target Audience for the iMac Pro, for them then Mac Pro will be there Target machine where they should be able to tailor more to there specific needs, though can gaurantee that if they do make Dual CPU option in the new Mac Pro, there will still be people moaning that no Quad Option.

There is no such thing as a One Size Fits All computer.

 

[masterbaron]

I think those residential customers that have 5K to spend for that kind of horsepower have other or varied ergonomic requirements that the iMac and iMac Pro do not satisfy. I certainly don't have any needs that would be addressed in a AIO format. I'm also real curious about thermal overload with all that power crammed into the iMac Pro.

The trend to lock users out is becoming pervasive just like in the auto industry. My Touareg sits in the garage right now unable to get the car out of Park due to a software issue - the car runs fine but I still can't move it. It's apparently less costly to make devices non-user serviceable which strikes users that get into things right in the heart. I think apple wants everything to be disposable to feed their profits and shrink manufacturing costs.

The DIY market in not their pot of gold.

 

[Miat]

These people simply are not concerned about it lasting 5 years+, being able to swap the GPU out etc. They won't care what is inside, it will simply be does it do what I need, YES/NO.

Unless Apple go with top grade components and can deliver excellent MTBF, then bean counters in companies the world over will care about greater maintenance and associated lost productivity costs.

Even if Apple can deliver on that, there is still the issue of the restricted thermal envelope.

 

[masterbaron]

"Unless Apple go with top grade components and can deliver excellent MTBF, then bean counters in companies the world over will care about greater maintenance and associated lost productivity costs."

It's truly too late for Apple (in the present mindset) to matter in the corporate world - they left the server market and abandoned the standard form-factor (Mac Pro) in favor of being "cool" and then it wasn't cool enough. Corporate America will not take chances on designs that come and go like the fashion industry - they adhere to standards, compatibility, linear upgrade paths and vendors they're embedded with in terms of corporate contracts and who runs the "house" like Cisco and others.

 

[masterbaron]

... sorry about that duplicate post.

 

[mcnallym]

"Unless Apple go with top grade components and can deliver excellent MTBF, then bean counters in companies the world over will care about greater maintenance and associated lost productivity costs."

It's truly too late for Apple (in the present mindset) to matter in the corporate world - they left the server market and abandoned the standard form-factor (Mac Pro) in favor of being "cool" and then it wasn't cool enough. Corporate America will not take chances on designs that come and go like the fashion industry - they adhere to standards, compatibility, linear upgrade paths and vendors they're embedded with in terms of corporate contracts and who runs the "house" like Cisco and others.

And strangely enough IBM of all people is doing great and expanding business selling and integrating Mac's into Corporate World. Even replacing swathes of internal PC's 73% at IBM with Mac's as seeing lower Total Cost of Ownership.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-are-even-cheaper-to-run-than-it-thought.html

Clearly Apple and IBM ( still makes some head scratching thinking of them in partnerhip ) are doing something right out there to get Macs into the Corporate World. The use JAMF Casper now Jamf Pro software to integrate into the Active Directory so can then manage a lot like the Mac is a PC. Back in 2015 then IBM reckoned had over 9 million OS X devices under management with JAMF software. Is now 2017 so wander what the figures are now.

Is why there is very little need for OS X Server anymore for managing Macs.

 

[BornAgainMac]

The Meerkat from system76.com is a great Mac mini replacement. Runs Linux and easy to get to the internals. Lots of options including 32 GB RAM. Only bad thing is only i5 with 2 cores.

 

[masterbaron]

And strangely enough IBM of all people is doing great and expanding business selling and integrating Mac's into Corporate World. Even replacing swathes of internal PC's 73% at IBM with Mac's as seeing lower Total Cost of Ownership.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-are-even-cheaper-to-run-than-it-thought.html

Clearly Apple and IBM ( still makes some head scratching thinking of them in partnerhip ) are doing something right out there to get Macs into the Corporate World. The use JAMF Casper now Jamf Pro software to integrate into the Active Directory so can then manage a lot like the Mac is a PC. Back in 2015 then IBM reckoned had over 9 million OS X devices under management with JAMF software. Is now 2017 so wander what the figures are now.

Is why there is very little need for OS X Server anymore for managing Macs.

That article is hugely positive - and i think everyone on this forum would expect those results when comparing PC vs Mac but I wonder if there's a "back-channel" incentive in there for IBM from Apple. It's rare to see such an acknowledgement in corporate circles but the "culture" of IT I think speaks otherwise.

 

[MysticCow]

I really wanted a new Mini because I need to get another computer. I guess Apple is only leaving me one option, buy a Windows based machine :-(

But the new Mac mini CERTAINLY IS COMING SOON...

 

[saulinpa]

And strangely enough IBM of all people is doing great and expanding business selling and integrating Mac's into Corporate World.

Not strange at all. IBM sold off the PC business (Lenovo) a decade ago and, like everyone else, wants to be a services business.

 

[HiFiGuy528]

I want a new MacMini with T3 port. Please Apple... don't kill the Mini.

 

[SoCalReviews]

I became a huge fan of Apple Mac Minis and the MacOS in the last five years. However lately I have been losing faith in Apple's future roadmap for the Mac Mini. The Mac Pro is overkill for the moderate needs of a business environment. I have two 2012 i7 quad core Mac Minis w/16GB RAM running Win XP and Win 7 VMs. I would have saved up for the next round of improved Mac Minis but the lack of information about the future of the Mac Mini has taken me in a different direction.

IMO the 2014 dual core Mac Minis were not an improvement over the 2012s. As a stop gap I just got a HP Elitedesk 800 G3 i7 2.8Ghz quad core 6700T tiny desktop with a 256GB memory card drive and 8GB RAM, 3 display ports, USB 3.0 and USB-C. It's got Windows 7 Pro preloaded and comes with a Windows 10 Pro license and installation disks. You can easily upgrade the RAM up to 32GB and there is an extra slot to add a second HDD or SSD.

It's a powerful tiny PC design that is actually more flexible than the Mini but in an even smaller package. It's priced considerably less than a 2014 dual core Mini with similar memory and storage specs but unlike the 2014 Mini the Elitedesk is user serviceable and upgradeable. I figure the two 2012 Minis and this new HP Elitedesk should hold over our business computer desktop needs for the next five to seven years or until Apple makes up it's mind on the next generation of Mini style desktops... if they ever show up.

 

[masterbaron]

I became a huge fan of Apple Mac Minis and the MacOS in the last five years. However lately I have been losing faith in Apple's future roadmap for the Mac Mini. The Mac Pro is overkill for the moderate needs of a business environment. I have two 2012 i7 quad core Mac Minis w/16GB RAM running Win XP and Win 7 VMs. I would have saved up for the next round of improved Mac Minis but the lack of information about the future of the Mac Mini has taken me in a different direction.

IMO the 2014 dual core Mac Minis were not an improvement over the 2012s. As a stop gap I just got a HP Elitedesk 800 G3 i7 2.8Ghz quad core 6700T tiny desktop with a 256GB memory card drive and 8GB RAM, 3 display ports, USB 3.0 and USB-C. It's got Windows 7 Pro preloaded and comes with a Windows 10 Pro license and installation disks. You can easily upgrade the RAM up to 32GB and there is an extra slot to add a second HDD or SSD.

It's a powerful tiny PC design that is actually more flexible than the Mini but in an even smaller package. It's priced considerably less than a 2014 dual core Mini with similar memory and storage specs but unlike the 2014 Mini the Elitedesk is user serviceable and upgradeable. I figure the two 2012 Minis and this new HP Elitedesk should hold over our business computer desktop needs for the next five to seven years or until Apple makes up it's mind on the next generation of Mini style desktops... if they ever show up.

Ultimately, for the time being, this is the world we live in ... I've been on Mac juice at home since the Centris and always used PC's at work. A hybrid solution is the best of both worlds while keeping fluid in both architectures. A NUC is economical enough over 3 years to be worth it as a viable interim solution until Apple gets it together and if not a gradual segue to Windows at home which I'm betting won't be necessary. The Apple ecosystem itself is now irreplaceable as long as I hold on to an iPhone.

 

[SoCalReviews]

"A "computer" is back end infrastructure the same as plumbing"...

The Mac Minis are still great little machines but the competition in the tiny desktop market is moving past the Mini and not looking back. The main drawback is that your main options to the Mini are Windows 7 or 10 machines. I really like Win 7 Pro. Win 10 Pro is too busy and too privacy invasive for what I want at this time. Maybe Win 10 will improve in the coming years. Until then I still consider MacOS one of the best operating systems for security and privacy which is why I will continue to use Macs. As you mentioned I really like the hybrid solutions. For business I will continue to use both Win and MacOS machines with the Macs running Win VMs.

I just set up the HP Elitedesk 800 G3 6700T i7 w/8GB RAM and 256 SSD card and let me say that I am very impressed. Setup was simple. I didn't notice any crapware installed. The machine simply flies. Once the machine is fully set up from time you press the power on button it boots up Win 7 Pro to the desktop in about three seconds. It's very quiet... almost silent. I also got the official HP DVD/CD writer/player module add on online for less than $30 USD. It attaches underneath the tiny desktop with a similar steel case for a clean all in one look.

This system also came with a decent quality HP wired flat keyboard and ergonomic mouse. There is 802.11 ac Wifi built in. I did need to purchase a HP display port to VGA converter for about $20 since no display port converters were included. All in all this is a really nice tiny desktop PC for running either Windows 7 Pro (only available as an option on the G3 6700T not the 7700T) or Windows 10 Pro. I also installed WinXP Mode and Virtual PC for Win7 Pro which are available as a free download from MS. If you search for deals the system with the extra peripherals I described above can be found online for a total of less than $1K USD.

 

[masterbaron]

I'm sure as soon as I begin to embrace the change (if ever) Apple will all of a sudden have a killer machine albeit much more expensive than a Mini - then in another 3-4 years who knows Apple may stall again ... the most optimistic view is that 5-6 years from now the whole Mac - PC debacle will be eclipsed by some evolutionary file-system and architecture that truly doesn't care with feature sets in both houses that satisfy or needs. Yeah right ... the toggle and tug of war is what feeds innovation.

I guess you could question where will the iPhone and iOS be in 5-6 years since this will more than likely feed further changes to MacOS or even its replacement and thus a new architecture.

 

[SoCalReviews]

I'm sure as soon as I begin to embrace the change (if ever) Apple will all of a sudden have a killer machine albeit much more expensive than a Mini...

Why do I get this feeling you've been dreaming a lot lately about the Mac Pro?.... and no I'm not talking about old ash trays.

 

[masterbaron]

... because I believe Apple gave us a clue when they announced the "new" MacPro will be modular ... I don't see them all of a sudden changing direction and breathing new life into the Mini - I think they'll streamline the line-up if they continue to produce a headless desktop - and surely they want us to forget the Mini price-point. I'm not dreaming at all because I really don't trust Apple anymore - they won't commit to a published path which means good money gone too soon. Fortunately my needs do not exceed my current capability but I would like to at least plan my next steps and know that those plans will be valid at least 5 years down the road.

 

[LeeW]

... and surely they want us to forget the Mini price-point.

Exactly what they want and I get that from an Apple 'company' perspective if not as a consumer.

The mini has gone as far as it can, to advance it means a configuration that gets too close to the iMac and that is not going to work, for them anyway.

The new modular Mac Pro will ultimately replace the Mini but it will come at the cost of a new iMac or close to it. If they do 'upgrade' it the line will remain significantly neutered by design.